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Originally Posted by Robodog

Like i said i'm not taking 'sides', i happen to like Helen AND Brian. This for me its about HMs BEHAVIOUR on a case by case basis.

Helen WAS wrong last year, standing over Matthew and verbally abusing him - once. She instigated it then.

Brian was wrong THIS year by doing EXACTLY the same thing but worse; standing over Helen and verbally abusing HER - THREE times. HE instigated it every time THIS year.

Was Helen wrong to retaliate verballly to the angry man standing over her while being physically restrained and shouting 'YOU'RE A SCUMBAG' in her face and tell him he LOOKED LIKE a rapist/murderer? (Rapist was OTT, but then so was Brian's aggression. As for murderer? He did LOOK LIKE he wanted to kill her!)

Was Matthew right to retaliate verbally to Helen last year when she stood over him and call him a 'pigeon chested tw*t' and make insults about her breasts etc?

Surely Matthew had every right to insult Helen back in the face of HER intimidation, just as Helen had the right to insult Brian back when HE was the instigator. THREE times no less.

Like i said, it's not about excusing Helen: i don't. Helen was awful last year. Brian was awful THIS year. I have no problem recognising Helen's bad behaviour but it seems many many people refuse to recognise BRIAN's bad behaviour - mainly due to their flat-out hatred of Helen. Remember: everyone was verbally abusing her even BEFORE she entered the house. These people jump on Helen the minute she says a bad word but when Anyone says anything bad about her they ignore it or explain it away as 'Helen deserves it'. It's totally one sided and unfair.

If you agree that Helen was wrong to intimidate Matthew last year, then surely you must agree that Brian was wrong to intimidate Helen THIS year.

If not then you must be biased against Helen. Unlike me who maintains an objective viewpoint about HMs behaviour regardless of 'favourites'.

As for calling the previous poster 'spiteful', i didn't. I called her comment 'spiteful' where she said Helen should 'crawl back under the stone she came from'. I mentioned this only to highlight the hypocrisy of so many Helen haters who have this double standard whereby they berate Helen for her 'nasty comments' and do so by making 'nasty comments' about HER!

It's like writing 'I HATE PEOPLE WHO USE CAPITAL LETTERS!'. Do you see what i mean?

Sure anyone can say what they like! Equally i am entitled to point out their hypocrisy.

The main thing here is this: I'm not making a case for Helen, i'm making a case for FAIRNESS - whether it's Helen OR Brian doing the instigating or insulting - you cannot treat them differently and right now there are lots of people with 'one rule for Helen, one rule for anyone who insults her'. That's not fair and it's horrible to watch.

I can see you are trying to be fair, and I agree with what you are saying up to a point. However, I didn't say Brian wasn't wrong, he was very aggressive and threatening. But what you didn't mention was that Helen was goading him on with blatant delight on her face at him losing it. Then to say he looked like a rapist and murderer could only serve to inflame and antagonize him further when he already was clearly at boiling point. It's like those people who goad by saying 'Come on, hit me!' hoping that you will and then they'll have you for assault.
As for people being hypocritical - Helen put herself out there of her own accord to be judged on her behaviour when she entered the BB house, like the rest of the housemates. She puts herself out there to be judged when she tweets horrible, untrue things on a public site. Most BB house mates get a lot of stick on the forums, and those who are pretty awful people like Helen, get it with bells on. Do you really think people on a forum should only say nice things about nasty people to avoid being called hypocrites?

So it's not really fair to accuse posters of being hypocrites and having double standards, which especially seems to be the cry of those who like Helen. It seems to me just a way of deflecting from Helen's behaviour by putting the heat on the poster. After all, what is the BB forum but a place to discuss and yes, judge, those who have voluntarily put themselves forward for our scrutiny. It's totally unrealistic to say 'If a housemate is mean, don't be mean back or you're being a hypocrite!!!
Isn't that hypocritical in itself?
Even basically decent HM's get nasty things said about them, and I'm not a fan of that at all, but if a HM is known to be generally mean to people and posters on a forum need to vent and say something like 'let them crawl back under the rock'...etc then fair do's. Should a poster think' Ummm, I can't say that because if I do I'll be called a hypocrite'? Talk about being too PC these days? Are people going to get called out on a forum now every time they are a bit hypocritical - because we ALL are to some extent. It would be a strange and boring forum if we all had to scrutinize our words in case we have said something bad about a HM who has willingly put themselves up to be talked about and who came across as pretty awful, like Helen.
After all, it could be completely turned around and it could be said its hypocritical to call someone out for being mean when they support Helen despite HER nastiness. Right? But nobody goes on and on about that.
I'm sick listening to the words 'double standard' and 'hypocrite'. It's bloody tiresome!!