[Kizzy]

I'll have a go at this logic thing...

If you are heterosexual and consider yourself homophobic it may be because you have never encountered gay people and have all the associated misconceptions, fear and prejudice.

Can that be applied to gay people that they have never had or observed a positive experience with heterosexual people, and that has manifested into heterophobia?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

There was little in your post other than dismissive and patronising generalisations that don't actually relate to anyone in this thread.

Homophobia starts at an individual level. It's widespread nature is what makes it a major social issue. Quite clearly it isn't a major social issue for straight people, but there absolutely can be heterophobia at an individual level.

At some point this becomes a debate over a definition, in which case the actual word to describe the prejudice doesn't actually matter. It can and no doubt does exist, and whatever you call it isn't important.

Pray tell, when did I say that my post related to anyone in this thread? I didn't, you just assumed so. I'm just going to be as equally dismissive towards the rest of this post as you have been to mine. Heterophobia does not exist.

[Glenn.]

Nothing can manifest itself into heterophobia because it doesn't exist. I find it appalling that people can think it does.

Sorry straight people. Sorry you've had such a hard time being straight. I'll let the teenage boys and girls know your troubles after they've been discharged from hospital from the beatings they received for being who they are.

[RichardG]

I might be wrong (correct me if I am) but reading through the thread it seems to me that not a single person has equated heterophobia to homophobia, pretended straight people are oppressed, pretended straight people are getting beat up and abandoned by families or made a big deal out of it at all. And I would agree with all of that. It is not at all a 'problem' in society, that much I'm sure we can all agree on. I don't think I ever would've even thought about it if this question wasn't posted.

In my opinion I think that it's inevitable that some people somewhere out there will hold heterophobic/'anti straight' views, there's people who hate all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons and if even only a small number of people thought like that then on a technical level yes it must surely exist. It is however obviously an entirely different concept to the direct opposite and so in this specific case you could argue 'heterophobic' is the wrong word to use to describe this obscure "phobia"/whatever you want to call it.

Originally Posted by Samuel.

At some point this becomes a debate over a definition, in which case the actual word to describe the prejudice doesn't actually matter. It can and no doubt does exist, and whatever you call it isn't important.

[lostalex]

The key is the word phobia i guess, which has been pointed out many times in this thread means IRRATIONAL fear.

Considering the history of straight people oppressing, raping, assaulting, murdering gay people, is it really irrational to fear it will happen to you? no, it's actually very rational because it happens all the time, every day on this planet. so it's not heterophobia, it's a totally justified fear of straight people.

For a straight person to fear gay people though, i can't think of any history of gay people forming large groups and oppressing, raping, assaulting, murdering lots of straight people/ so for a straight person to fear gay people is in fact Irrational, because it has no basis in reality. therefore it is rightly called a phobia, because it's irrational.

[Ammi]

..I was in the middle of making a post and then realised I don't have time ....so just think yourselves all lucky.....because it was going to be long I think...anyway, some great posts in the thread from opposing opinions... from TS, Dezzy, Sam and Liam especially...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by lostalex

The key is the word phobia i guess, which has been pointed out many times in this thread means IRRATIONAL fear.

Considering the history of straight people oppressing, raping, assaulting, murdering gay people, is it really irrational to fear it will happen to you? no, it's actually very rational because it happens all the time, every day on this planet. so it's not heterophobia, it's a totally justified fear of straight people.

For a straight person to fear gay people though, i can't think of any history of gay people forming large groups and oppressing, raping, assaulting, murdering lots of straight people/ so for a straight person to fear gay people is in fact Irrational, because it has no basis in reality. therefore it is rightly called a phobia, because it's irrational.

Good point!

[bots]

What I see on this thread are views where people put down the concept of heterophobia as ridiculous, but only seem to be doing so because they believe by acknowledging that it could possibly exist it is in some way devaluing homophobia. The amusing thing to me is the outrage that would ensue if I were to say that in a similar vein homophobia did not exist.

What harm does it do to anyone to acknowledge the possibility that heterophobia could exist? To me there seems to be an irrational fear that it could exist as a concept.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

What I see on this thread are views where people put down the concept of heterophobia as ridiculous, but only seem to be doing so because they believe by acknowledging that it could possibly exist it is in some way devaluing homophobia. The amusing thing to me is the outrage that would ensue if I were to say that in a similar vein homophobia did not exist.

What harm does it do to anyone to acknowledge the possibility that heterophobia could exist? To me there seems to be an irrational fear that it could exist as a concept.

Superbly written BitOnTheSlide and true. I agree totally because that's exactly what it's beginning to look like.

[user104658]

Having given it some additional thought, I have realised that I think part of the problem is the use of the word "homophobia" in the first place. It's a bit of a misnomer. Most serious discrimination against homosexuals comes from a place of anger and righteousness, not fear at all (although the certain fears are embedded in there often, that's true) and so when people talk about the widespread and sometimes systemic abuse that homosexuals have experienced - that goes far beyond a "phobia" in the strictest sense of the word.

The worry seems to be that acknowledging hetero phobia takes something away from "homophobia" but it's simply probably the other way around: the word homophobia doesn't do enough to describe the issues that homosexuals individuals and couples face in the first place.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Having given it some additional thought, I have realised that I think part of the problem is the use of the word "homophobia" in the first place. It's a bit of a misnomer. Most serious discrimination against homosexuals comes from a place of anger and righteousness, not fear at all (although the certain fears are embedded in there often, that's true) and so when people talk about the widespread and sometimes systemic abuse that homosexuals have experienced - that goes far beyond a "phobia" in the strictest sense of the word.

The worry seems to be that acknowledging hetero phobia takes something away from "homophobia" but it's simply probably the other way around: the word homophobia doesn't do enough to describe the issues that homosexuals individuals and couples face in the first place.

Your posts are actually the best ones on here T.S - which is why I have not written at length, because it would virtually duplicate what you have said.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

What I see on this thread are views where people put down the concept of heterophobia as ridiculous, but only seem to be doing so because they believe by acknowledging that it could possibly exist it is in some way devaluing homophobia. The amusing thing to me is the outrage that would ensue if I were to say that in a similar vein homophobia did not exist.

What harm does it do to anyone to acknowledge the possibility that heterophobia could exist? To me there seems to be an irrational fear that it could exist as a concept.

but how could it exist? gay people have totally justified reasons for fearing heterosexuals, so there's nothing irrational about that.

There is absolutely nothing in history to give straight people a rational reason to fear homosexuals. some would say religion, but religion itself is irrational.

what is an irrational fear of straight people? that they will round you up and kill you? rape you? torture you? it's not irrational because it happens every single day all around the world.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but how could it exist? gay people have totally justified reasons for fearing heterosexuals, so there's nothing irrational about that.

There is absolutely nothing in history to give straight people a rational reason to fear homosexuals. some would say religion, but religion itself is irrational.

what is an irrational fear of straight people? that they will round you up and kill you? rape you? torture you? it's not irrational because it happens every single day all around the world.

Phobias almost always have a root cause or trauma, though. They don't just appear out of thin air. I guess the mistake here is in thinking that "irrational" and "unfounded" mean the same thing, when they don't.

Fearing Gentle Bob The Straight Guy Who Wouldn't Harm a Fly because there is a history of widespread discrimination and violence against homosexuals in the world is not unfounded - it's even understandable - however that doesn't make it rational (i.e. Based in logic).

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Having given it some additional thought, I have realised that I think part of the problem is the use of the word "homophobia" in the first place. It's a bit of a misnomer. Most serious discrimination against homosexuals comes from a place of anger and righteousness, not fear at all (although the certain fears are embedded in there often, that's true) and so when people talk about the widespread and sometimes systemic abuse that homosexuals have experienced - that goes far beyond a "phobia" in the strictest sense of the word.

The worry seems to be that acknowledging hetero phobia takes something away from "homophobia" but it's simply probably the other way around: the word homophobia doesn't do enough to describe the issues that homosexuals individuals and couples face in the first place.

I agree but I flipped the fear and the anger, homophobia is for me based on fear and righteousness. the hetero phobia that many describe is borne from anger at the prejudice faced.
Again not that I feel either is a true 'phobia' a phobia of balloons isn't triggered by ignorance to the lives of balloons or the fact you don't have any balloon friends.

[MTVN]

I find the whole concept of 'heterophobia' pretty bizarre really. How can someone possibly be bigoted against the sexuality of the vast majority of the world's population, against what always has been and always will be by far the largest group in society. Unlike racial or religious demographics, heterosexuality's dominance is something that will never wane.

Ok so you might get 1 in 10,000,000 who do genuinely have a burning loathing of straight people. But I think the reason people are pretty resistant to the concept is that it comes across as whiny heterosexuals who are resentful of gay rights movements and feel the need to say 'but we can be discriminated against too!!' when the reality is that 99.99% of straight people have never and will never face any sort of hatred for their sexuality. I'm not saying anyone on this thread is being like that but that seems to be the context in which 'heterophobia' is usually complained about.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I find the whole concept of 'heterophobia' pretty bizarre really. How can someone possibly be bigoted against the sexuality of the vast majority of the world's population, against what always has been and always will be by far the largest group in society. Unlike racial or religious demographics, heterosexuality's dominance is something that will never wane.

Ok so you might get 1 in 10,000,000 who do genuinely have a burning loathing of straight people. But I think the reason people are pretty resistant to the concept is that it comes across as whiny heterosexuals who are resentful of gay rights movements and feel the need to say 'but we can be discriminated against too!!' when the reality is that 99.99% of straight people have never and will never face any sort of hatred for their sexuality. I'm not saying anyone on this thread is being like that but that seems to be the context in which 'heterophobia' is usually complained about.

Yup spot on Matthew

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I find the whole concept of 'heterophobia' pretty bizarre really. How can someone possibly be bigoted against the sexuality of the vast majority of the world's population, against what always has been and always will be by far the largest group in society. Unlike racial or religious demographics, heterosexuality's dominance is something that will never wane.

Ok so you might get 1 in 10,000,000 who do genuinely have a burning loathing of straight people. But I think the reason people are pretty resistant to the concept is that it comes across as whiny heterosexuals who are resentful of gay rights movements and feel the need to say 'but we can be discriminated against too!!' when the reality is that 99.99% of straight people have never and will never face any sort of hatred for their sexuality. I'm not saying anyone on this thread is being like that but that seems to be the context in which 'heterophobia' is usually complained about.

Again, a phobia has nothing (absolutely nothing, zero, nil) to do with bigotry, prejudice or discrimination.

There is a lot of prejudice, bigotry and discrimination as a result of far too widespread homophobia. There is very little or none alongside heterophobia because heterophobia would, realistically, be limited to a very small and isolated number of individuals.

It is the context that "heterophobia" is being complained about but it's a snap-response based on a misconception... the misconception being that people who are saying "Yes, logically speaking, heterophobia is a thing" are somehow saying that it's equivalent to homophobia or results in the same outcomes. That is in no way implied, it's 100% a projected meaning borne of defensiveness.

[Niamh.]

The thread itself though is taking the words Homophobia and Hetrophobia to mean discrimination etc and I thin k most people on here are arguing based on that
and (no offence Caitlin) it does sound a bit silly. Like when would "lol straighty" ever be offensive to a straight person? It just wouldn't be, it would be funny and ridiculous. What you're arguing about is not what the actual subject of the thread seems to be (eventhough I do get what you're saying as well)

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The thread itself though is taking the words Homophobia and Hetrophobia to mean discrimination etc and I think most people on here are arguing based on that
and (no offence Caitlin) it does sound a bit silly. Like when would "lol straighty" ever be offensive to a straight person? It just wouldn't be, it would be funny and ridiculous. What you're arguing about is not what the actual subject of the thread seems to be (eventhough I do get what you're saying as well)

Just because most people are doing it doesn't mean we should all do it Niamh . Most people do all sorts of stupid ****.

[Livia]

Did this whole discussion start because I joked with JoshBB that he had made a "heterophobic" comment? Does anyone really believe it exists? I find it hard to believe...

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again, a phobia has nothing (absolutely nothing, zero, nil) to do with bigotry, prejudice or discrimination.

There is a lot of prejudice, bigotry and discrimination as a result of far too widespread homophobia. There is very little or none alongside heterophobia because heterophobia would, realistically, be limited to a very small and isolated number of individuals.

It is the context that "heterophobia" is being complained about but it's a snap-response based on a misconception... the misconception being that people who are saying "Yes, logically speaking, heterophobia is a thing" are somehow saying that it's equivalent to homophobia or results in the same outcomes. That is in no way implied, it's 100% a projected meaning borne of defensiveness.

But in the context of religion, sexuality and other issues, phobias are inextricably associated with bigotry: homophobia is prejudice against homesexuals, Islamophobia is prejudice against Muslims, transphobia is prejudice against transsexuals etc. It is not the same as being scared of clowns. Maybe you're right that that is a problem with the term 'homophobia' itself but that is accepted terminology nevertheless.

People react like you talk about in the last paragraph because those who complain about heterophobia are normally doing so as a backlash against the LGBT movements. As Dezzy talked about, its like when people complain about not being able to have 'straight pride'. Take this article for instance: http://www.rooshv.com/the-rise-of-heterophobia

A new psychological disorder called heterophobia is infecting America. Promoting a heterosexual or traditional family lifestyle is becoming increasingly shamed while criticism of homosexual lifestyle is no longer allowed. Our culture is making it clear that when it comes to sex, only heterosexuality can be ridiculed, especially when it is practiced by men.

I actually thought that might have been satire at first but apparently not.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

What I see on this thread are views where people put down the concept of heterophobia as ridiculous, but only seem to be doing so because they believe by acknowledging that it could possibly exist it is in some way devaluing homophobia. The amusing thing to me is the outrage that would ensue if I were to say that in a similar vein homophobia did not exist.

What harm does it do to anyone to acknowledge the possibility that heterophobia could exist? To me there seems to be an irrational fear that it could exist as a concept.

Not really, I just find the concept of straight people complaining about 'Heterophobia' ridiculous when they're considered the norm and they've never had to fight for equal rights and have never been at risk for simply being who they are. I think it was said earlier in the thread somewhere but someone made a good point about the fact that Racism and Homophobia is linked to a sense of superiority and disliking what isn't considered the norm which doesn't really equate to the idea of heterophobia.

At best, it's prejudice but heterophobia does not exist.

[user104658]

Regardless of terminology though, would the simplest course of action not be just to say "OK so none of us should ridicule or dislike anyone else without actually getting to know them as an individual, for any reason"?

Wouldn't that make "other considerations" - rightly - unimportant?

What justifies the backlash to the backlash? "It's OK for me to mock you or something intrinsic about you, because you're in the majority so I can say what I want, and you can't have a problem with it, because history and society". Can we all just... not? At all?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I find the whole concept of 'heterophobia' pretty bizarre really. How can someone possibly be bigoted against the sexuality of the vast majority of the world's population, against what always has been and always will be by far the largest group in society. Unlike racial or religious demographics, heterosexuality's dominance is something that will never wane.

Ok so you might get 1 in 10,000,000 who do genuinely have a burning loathing of straight people. But I think the reason people are pretty resistant to the concept is that it comes across as whiny heterosexuals who are resentful of gay rights movements and feel the need to say 'but we can be discriminated against too!!' when the reality is that 99.99% of straight people have never and will never face any sort of hatred for their sexuality. I'm not saying anyone on this thread is being like that but that seems to be the context in which 'heterophobia' is usually complained about.

yea, i agree. i can't imagine a situation where a straight person is always in fear of being the victim of a gay majority. i can't imagine a place or a time when gay people have enough power and majority to cause that kind of paranoia and fear in straight people.

it's very unique for gay people in that way, because when it comes to race or religion, there are plenty of places in the world where black people, or asian people or muslim people, or even jewish people can find a place in the world where they have political power and are a majority. there is no such place for gay people.

even though the homophobes love to say they want to put us all on an island, i wish they would, so we could finally have a gay nation, but of course it's ridiculous and will never happen.

[Northern Monkey]

Tbh i think this topic is so confusing because some people are arguing that the literal definition of the word 'heterophobia' as a phobia can and probably does exist and some are arguing on the premise of homophobia and heterophobia being comparable.
I think obviously heterosexuals have'nt on a large scale experienced hate like homosexuals have but that does'nt mean that the literal definition of heterophobia does'nt exist because as TS said,if just one gay person in the world hates through fear somebody for being straight then it does exist.Nobody is saying that straights have it as bad as gays,Nobody thinks that because it is ridiculous.
The word 'homophobia' is a poor descriptor anyway imo for what is basically hatred for gay people.
Maybe the word 'homophobia' should just be replaced with 'gay hate'.