[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what love exists?

love for an ice lolly, love for a tv show or a car, love for a pal

its just a word that is used to describe preference

parents have love for their children but that is because of millions of years of evolution and gene preservation. the ones that did not "love" their children died out.

I mean love for another person. Love that would mean you'd die in their place. You know what I mean.

[Livia]

I haven't read all the way through this thread so this may be have been posted before, apologies if it has.

He [Richard Dawkins] told the Guardian: “My immediate response was to tweet that it was a violation of freedom of speech. But I deleted it when respondents convinced me that it was a matter of commercial judgment on the part of the cinemas, not so much a free speech issue. I still strongly object to suppressing the ads on the grounds that they might ‘offend’ people. If anybody is ‘offended’ by something so trivial as a prayer, they deserve to be offended.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-lords-prayer

[Kizzy]

Well that wasn't the case so it's all just guesswork as to why it was seeing as the explanation that they have given has fallen on deaf ears.
Yule all be enjoying crimbo soon, we should count our blessings.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by Livia

I haven't read all the way through this thread so this may be have been posted before, apologies if it has.

He [Richard Dawkins] told the Guardian: “My immediate response was to tweet that it was a violation of freedom of speech. But I deleted it when respondents convinced me that it was a matter of commercial judgment on the part of the cinemas, not so much a free speech issue. I still strongly object to suppressing the ads on the grounds that they might ‘offend’ people. If anybody is ‘offended’ by something so trivial as a prayer, they deserve to be offended.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-lords-prayer

you know the drill

the reason the cinema has the policy is in case someone working in a senior rle there gets blamed for something

its how companies work. business is not nice, rational or fair. business is about people being selfish, making money and fck other people

humans are like that, we are nasty and selfish and ego-centric

we all are. its why religion never works

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Hi Kirk,
Point 1: I said very early on in here that Athiests can't hate anykind of god because they cannot hate something they do not believe existed in the first place. So your Athiest argument is redundant. How could i hate something that to me does not exist?

Point 2: There have been thousands of gods and many gods came before this god. What makes this god so special that he out trumps all the other gods who got here long before he did?

POINT 3: I asked a question earlier which no one wants too answer so i will ask it again. Hopefully you can shed some light on this for me. Thanks.
Q: How did Noah fit 8.7million ( x2 remember ) so that is 17.4 million animals into a 500 foot wooden boat.

Point 4: You are quick to call out all the other gods that were around at that time as false,fallices,fake or whatever but yet many of those gods were on this planet long before your god of choice was. Wouldn't it be logical to root for the first true god rather than cherry pick a late commer to the religious table?

I will have to disagree with you on the christmas mass thing. Why were christians fighting against it for centuries? They then changed their minds. lol They defo hijacked christmas Kirk and many christians still do claim it as their own and as his actual birth date. I'm not saying you do but many christans still believe this.

You asked...So without death - How can there be resurrection Johnny?
You first have to prove to me that resurrection is real Kirk.
But if i have to answer without proof from you that it is real then i will say.....
It's very simple...Just look around you, everything dies eventually,there is no resurrection you die and that is it.

Final question...If the Bible is the word of god then why so many rewrites?

Seriously Johnny - I am disappointed.

My post dealt specifically with just part of the article which you linked as some sort of irrefutable truth that Christians copied other deities for Christ including Mithras, and that they poached the 25th of December as Christ's 'Birthday' because that was these other deities and Mithras's 'Birthday' too.

I have rebutted the Mithras - Jesus fallacy but you do not accept it, and go off on tangents about things I did not say.

Point 1) "So your Athiest argument is redundant. How could i hate something that to me does not exist?"

But I have never accused you of hating anything Johnny? And I don't know what you mean by 'my atheist argument'?

Point 2: "There have been thousands of gods and many gods came before this god. What makes this god so special that he out trumps all the other gods who got here long before he did?"

This really is a far too complex subject to cover here Johnny, and I am wising up to investing time and effort into long comprehensive posts which no one reads or takes notice of anyway. I will just say, that different peoples in many different locations had different names for God throughout different periods of history - from the fertility and agricultural 'Gods' to different names for the same God.

Exodus 6:3, The God I personally believe in said to Moses: "I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by my name YHWH."

POINT 3: I asked a question earlier which no one wants too answer so i will ask it again. Hopefully you can shed some light on this for me. Thanks.
Q: How did Noah fit 8.7million ( x2 remember ) so that is 17.4 million animals into a 500 foot wooden boat.

I will answer this later Johnny.

Point 4: You are quick to call out all the other gods that were around at that time as false,fallices,fake or whatever but yet many of those gods were on this planet long before your god of choice was. Wouldn't it be logical to root for the first true god rather than cherry pick a late commer to the religious table?

This point is really point 2 isn't it? But isn't it 'natural' even in the Atheist's beloved field of Science to stop 'believing' in long held 'tenets' once further research and discovery has discredited such 'tenets' or disproved them altogether? The 'Expanding Earth Theory' once believed by Tessla and Darwin among other notables has now all but been rendered wrong by the theory of 'Plate Tectonics' for example.

Now I am free to believe in an 'Expanding Earth' or opt for 'Plate Tectonics', but as someone who has researched both, I elect to believe in the latter as being the one true theory.

Why shouldn't I believe in THE ONE TRUE GOD over some obscure fertility 'Godess' or other deity, after I have carried out similar but even more exhausting research? And my God was no 'latecomer' to any table, he is eternal and predates all other false 'Gods' whether his name was known to man or not, and whether man called him by some other name or not.

"You asked...So without death - How can there be resurrection Johnny?
You first have to prove to me that resurrection is real Kirk.
But if i have to answer without proof from you that it is real then i will say.....
It's very simple...Just look around you, everything dies eventually,there is no resurrection you die and that is it."

I was referring specifically to the 'resurrection' deceitfully attributed to Mithras by anti-Christian academics Johnny -- If Mithras went to heaven in a chariot (probably ANOTHER filch from the Old Testament of the Judeo Christian Bible - Elijah Kings 2:11) and did not die -- How the **** can he have 'resurrected?

As for the principle of Resurrection Johnny, NO ONE - eminent scientist or otherwise KNOWS the mysteries of life, so whether you are a spiritual religious person or a scientific atheist it is all just a matter of BELIEF. Yes you atheists are as reliant on belief as ANY religious person.

One more point: ALL humans are guilty of immense arrogance when it comes to our perception of absolutes, because we do so from within the narrow parameters of our own strictly limited knowledge. For example: TIME.

I have often read and seen and heard people decry God because he created the world in 'Six Days' and Christ because he promised to return and has not in 2000 years. What utter arrogance.

If you had a newly born Mayfly, wanted to keep it as a pet, and decided to go out and buy some materials from a DIY shop with which to build it a pet home but the journey to and from the shop took you 31 minutes, then your pet would already be dead when you returned because a Mayfly's life span is just 30 minutes. What was a mere fraction of time for you was AN ETERNITY for the Mayfly - its entire life cycle in fact.

Yet, we dare to try to pretend to comprehend the supernatural mysteries of a an eternal being?

We no more understand the mysteries of time and existence than we do life and resurrection.

Science now Johnny, science, and a question for you so that I can better answer one of yours.

Just a mere 100 years ago, if ALL the greatest scientists in the world were asked how many different species of 'clean animals' they could fit on a pinhead, the person posing the question would have been jumped on and shipped off to Bedlam.

Now, we know the answer is that over 60,000 animal cells will fit on the head of an average pin - all of them capable of being processed to create animal clones.

Now, if in a mere century,MAN can achieve what their earlier counterparts considered to be impossible, WHY should we arrogantly deny out of hand the limitless capabilities of a supreme being, just because of ancient man's inability to adequately CONVEY just what had transpired?

If you flew to Jupiter right now and saw a new colour you could NOT convey to us Earthbound humans EXACTLY what you had witnessed because - again - we are limited by both a common frame of reference AND the pitiful paramaters of our puny knowledge.

Well ancient man might have suffered from the same problem when they tried to put into words the incredible events they had witnessed.

But this is twice now that I have done you the service of answering you as comprehensively as I can old friend, but you ignore my response detailing the real reason why the 25th of December was chosen as the date to celebrate Christ's Mass, and so here we are not discussing or debating but just going around in circles - futility in other words, just as I predicted.

Come on Johnny.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you know the drill

the reason the cinema has the policy is in case someone working in a senior rle there gets blamed for something

its how companies work. business is not nice, rational or fair. business is about people being selfish, making money and fck other people

humans are like that, we are nasty and selfish and ego-centric

we all are. its why religion never works

But some of us do try not to be so LT,although I agree that some humans are nasty,selfish and ego-centric

[Kizzy]

Humanity works though... It's worth remembering that, when all else fails.

[Johnnyuk123]

Kirk said

My post dealt specifically with just part of the article which you linked as some sort of irrefutable truth that Christians copied other deities for Christ including Mithras, and that they poached the 25th of December as Christ's 'Birthday' because that was these other deities and Mithras's 'Birthday' too.

Johnny

Hi Kirk,
Anyone can refute ANY of those gods as false gods from any documentation from online or from other sources if you look hard enough.
Also those people who believed in all those Gods at that time are just as valid to do so as you are to believe in the god that you worship.
But yet you refute even mock all other gods bar your god.

Some would say that is a very arrogant stance to take.

I wouldn't say that at all but what i would say is...
that by you refuting all other gods bar your one true god it actually makes you 99.99% Athiest.

For me as an athiest, NONE of them existed. So you cherry picking sections out to prove a point on ANY of these gods proves nothing to me. And you fell into the my gods better than your god trap refuting all other gods.


Kirk said

Why shouldn't I believe in THE ONE TRUE GOD over some obscure fertility 'Godess' or other deity, after I have carried out similar but even more exhausting research? And my God was no 'latecomer' to any table, he is eternal and predates all other false 'Gods' whether his name was known to man or not, and whether man called him by some other name or not.

Johnny

Who say's that he is the ONE TRUE GOD? What if your praying to the wrong god?
Proof please.
Kirk,
we will have to agree to disagree on this because my knowledge of this is very different. There were many gods around long before your god turned up.
Google (gods pre jesus) then take your pick.


Kirk said

I was referring specifically to the 'resurrection' deceitfully attributed to Mithras by anti-Christian academics Johnny -- If Mithras went to heaven in a chariot (probably ANOTHER filch from the Old Testament of the Judeo Christian Bible - Elijah Kings 2:11) and did not die -- How the **** can he have 'resurrected?

Johnny

Kirk i do not believe in resurrection.


Kirk said

As for the principle of Resurrection Johnny, NO ONE - eminent scientist or otherwise KNOWS the mysteries of life, so whether you are a spiritual religious person or a scientific atheist it is all just a matter of BELIEF. Yes you atheists are as reliant on belief as ANY religious person.

Johnny

Athiest don't have belief when it comes to gods. They lack belief.


Kirk said

One more point: ALL humans are guilty of immense arrogance when it comes to our perception of absolutes, because we do so from within the narrow parameters of our own strictly limited knowledge. For example: TIME.

I have often read and seen and heard people decry God because he created the world in 'Six Days' and Christ because he promised to return and has not in 2000 years. What utter arrogance.

Johnny

Kirk,
Please show me the proof of anything that god created.

If he is the creator of everything then he created arrogance.

What i find very arrogant is this....
lets just say that this god is real for a moment.
Explain to me why the hell did your god not flick hitlers head off when he had the chance too before he started invading those countries? Why has your god handed out cancer to millions of people. The list goes on... This god is the epitimy of arrogance, telling people to pray for him and if they don't there gonna burn in hell for all eternity but... he loves you?
And to top it all off lets not forget that he murdered his own son.
That is pure arrogance in a nutshell.

Kirk said

If you had a newly born Mayfly, wanted to keep it as a pet, and decided to go out and buy some materials from a DIY shop with which to build it a pet home but the journey to and from the shop took you 31 minutes, then your pet would already be dead when you returned because a Mayfly's life span is just 30 minutes. What was a mere fraction of time for you was AN ETERNITY for the Mayfly - its entire life cycle in fact.

Yet, we dare to try to pretend to comprehend the supernatural mysteries of a an eternal being?

Johnny

So you are saying that god has supernatural powers? Ok i can live with that.

Kirk said

Just a mere 100 years ago, if ALL the greatest scientists in the world were asked how many different species of 'clean animals' they could fit on a pinhead, the person posing the question would have been jumped on and shipped off to Bedlam.
Now, we know the answer is that over 60,000 animal cells will fit on the head of an average pin - all of them capable of being processed to create animal clones.

Johnny

Is this gonna be the premise of your noah argument that the animals all fit onto a pin, all 17.4 million of them at a time when the nearest thing to technology at hand was a rock and a stick then i'm gonna call you a cab with square wheels.

Kirk said

Now, if in a mere century,MAN can achieve what their earlier counterparts considered to be impossible, WHY should we arrogantly deny out of hand the limitless capabilities of a supreme being, just because of ancient man's inability to adequately CONVEY just what had transpired?

Johnny

This is the same god that created those ancient uneducated men, the same god who created the world in 6 days yet somehow he just can't handle money??? Just look at american tv and others begging you to hand over your life savings in order for god to save you. I don't believe in a supreme being Kirk especially one who created ancient uneducated men who were too stupid to understand his own words.

Kirk said

If you flew to Jupiter right now and saw a new colour you could NOT convey to us Earthbound humans EXACTLY what you had witnessed because - again - we are limited by both a common frame of reference AND the pitiful paramaters of our puny knowledge.

Well ancient man might have suffered from the same problem when they tried to put into words the incredible events they had witnessed.

Johnny
Who created these ancient men and made them so stupid?
Again show me the proof that these events took place.

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Johnnyuk123;8311648]

Kirk said

I was referring specifically to the 'resurrection' deceitfully attributed to Mithras by anti-Christian academics Johnny -- If Mithras went to heaven in a chariot (probably ANOTHER filch from the Old Testament of the Judeo Christian Bible - Elijah Kings 2:11) and did not die -- How the **** can he have 'resurrected?

Johnny

Kirk i do not believe in resurrection.

You are missing my point about Mithras Johnny.


Kirk said

As for the principle of Resurrection Johnny, NO ONE - eminent scientist or otherwise KNOWS the mysteries of life, so whether you are a spiritual religious person or a scientific atheist it is all just a matter of BELIEF. Yes you atheists are as reliant on belief as ANY religious person.

Johnny

Athiest don't have belief when it comes to gods. They lack belief.

You are missing my point Johnny - I was illustrating that Science is in eternal flux as far as knowledge is concered and that one days 99% 'Absolute' is tomorrow's disproved 'Theory', so BECAUSE science CANNOT prove a lot of its 'theories', aethiests are as reliant on BELIEF in science as we religious people are on our belief in our religion.

Kirk said

One more point: ALL humans are guilty of immense arrogance when it comes to our perception of absolutes, because we do so from within the narrow parameters of our own strictly limited knowledge. For example: TIME.

I have often read and seen and heard people decry God because he created the world in 'Six Days' and Christ because he promised to return and has not in 2000 years. What utter arrogance.

Johnny

Kirk,
Please show me the proof of anything that god created.

But this is the WHOLE CRUX Johnny - YOU believe life was an accident, a freak occurence and that every part of our reality came from NOTHING.

I believe in a Grand Architect, a CREATOR - GOD. So to answer your question; you, me, EVERYTHING was created by GOD. Though I can no more PROVE it than you atheists can PROVE Evolution or Chaos theory or the Big Bang or 'String Theory'.


Johnny Says:

What i find very arrogant is this....
lets just say that this god is real for a moment.
Explain to me why the hell did your god not flick hitlers head off when he had the chance too before he started invading those countries? Why has your god handed out cancer to millions of people. The list goes on... This god is the epitimy of arrogance, telling people to pray for him and if they don't there gonna burn in hell for all eternity but... he loves you?
And to top it all off lets not forget that he murdered his own son.
That is pure arrogance in a nutshell.

You are becoming muddled Johnny, between MAN and GOD and EVIL and FREE WILL. There is not time to go into Theology here Johnny and long sincerely intentioned posts would serve no purpose anyway.

Kirk said

If you had a newly born Mayfly, wanted to keep it as a pet, and decided to go out and buy some materials from a DIY shop with which to build it a pet home but the journey to and from the shop took you 31 minutes, then your pet would already be dead when you returned because a Mayfly's life span is just 30 minutes. What was a mere fraction of time for you was AN ETERNITY for the Mayfly - its entire life cycle in fact.

Yet, we dare to try to pretend to comprehend the supernatural mysteries of a an eternal being?

Johnny

So you are saying that god has supernatural powers? Ok i can live with that.

Kirk said

Just a mere 100 years ago, if ALL the greatest scientists in the world were asked how many different species of 'clean animals' they could fit on a pinhead, the person posing the question would have been jumped on and shipped off to Bedlam.
Now, we know the answer is that over 60,000 animal cells will fit on the head of an average pin - all of them capable of being processed to create animal clones.

Johnny

Is this gonna be the premise of your noah argument that the animals all fit onto a pin, all 17.4 million of them at a time when the nearest thing to technology at hand was a rock and a stick then i'm gonna call you a cab with square wheels.

Again Johnny you are completely missing my point - I was using the 'pin head' analalogy to illustrate that what seemed a scientific impossibility and certain to invoke scoffs and mockery from 'know it alls' less than a century ago, is now accepted practice.

You see Johnny, Atheists are so blinkered that they only relate to things which lie squarely within those narrow parameters I talked about, and they reject out of hand the 'Super Natural' because it is not 'Super Technological', But the word 'Supernatural' means exactly that: ' a manifestation or event attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.'

'Beyond Scientific understanding or the Laws of Nature' - That is it in a nutshell, and just because something is 'Beyond' scientific understanding does not mean that it DOES not exist, because - as stated - our Scientific' understanding of life is ever changing -- Yesterday's scorn invoking impossibility is tomorrow's accepted reality.


I think to close here Johnny, I will post some quotes from my favourite 'Religion-Hating' Atheist buffoon, Richard DORKins because even he often trips himself up and reveals himself to be a BELIEVER. :

"I accept that there may be things far grander and more incomprehensible than we can possibly imagine." - Richard Dawkins

"Something pretty mysterious had to give rise to the origin of the universe." - Richard Dawkins

And an excerpt from one of my earlier posts on this subject Johnny:

“We are survival machines – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. This is a truth which still fills me with astonishment.” ― Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene.

The above issues from the mouth of the most fanatical decrier of 'Creationism' and 'Intelligent design -- "BLINDLY PROGRAMMED'!!!!

A quick dictionary definition:

programme ˈprəʊɡram/verb
past tense: programmed; past participle: programmed

1. provide (a computer or other machine) with coded instructions for the automatic performance of a task.

2. cause (a person or animal) to behave in a predetermined way.

Programmed by WHO Richard? Surely not that Grand Architect, that Master CREATOR we call GOD?

But who else could it be?

[Kizzy]

Is Dawkins not a geneticist?
Then his “We are survival machines – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. This is a truth which still fills me with astonishment.”
He was talking of the gene, it's ability to fight an evolutionary fight to survive over other genes.
From an outside perspective I look on all religions as that gene, they are all fighting to preserve their own ethos, taking on others and selfishly converting them in their own ideology.
Anything to prevent them dying out.

[Livia]

Whatever Dawkins is or is not, I agree with this: "... I still strongly object to suppressing the ads on the grounds that they might ‘offend’ people. If anybody is ‘offended’ by something so trivial as a prayer, they deserve to be offended".

[Johnnyuk123]

[QUOTE=kirklancaster;8312408]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Kirk said

I was referring specifically to the 'resurrection' deceitfully attributed to Mithras by anti-Christian academics Johnny -- If Mithras went to heaven in a chariot (probably ANOTHER filch from the Old Testament of the Judeo Christian Bible - Elijah Kings 2:11) and did not die -- How the **** can he have 'resurrected?

Johnny

Kirk i do not believe in resurrection.

You are missing my point about Mithras Johnny.


Kirk said

As for the principle of Resurrection Johnny, NO ONE - eminent scientist or otherwise KNOWS the mysteries of life, so whether you are a spiritual religious person or a scientific atheist it is all just a matter of BELIEF. Yes you atheists are as reliant on belief as ANY religious person.

Johnny

Athiest don't have belief when it comes to gods. They lack belief.

You are missing my point Johnny - I was illustrating that Science is in eternal flux as far as knowledge is concered and that one days 99% 'Absolute' is tomorrow's disproved 'Theory', so BECAUSE science CANNOT prove a lot of its 'theories', aethiests are as reliant on BELIEF in science as we religious people are on our belief in our religion.

Kirk said

One more point: ALL humans are guilty of immense arrogance when it comes to our perception of absolutes, because we do so from within the narrow parameters of our own strictly limited knowledge. For example: TIME.

I have often read and seen and heard people decry God because he created the world in 'Six Days' and Christ because he promised to return and has not in 2000 years. What utter arrogance.

Johnny

Kirk,
Please show me the proof of anything that god created.

But this is the WHOLE CRUX Johnny - YOU believe life was an accident, a freak occurence and that every part of our reality came from NOTHING.

I believe in a Grand Architect, a CREATOR - GOD. So to answer your question; you, me, EVERYTHING was created by GOD. Though I can no more PROVE it than you atheists can PROVE Evolution or Chaos theory or the Big Bang or 'String Theory'.


Johnny Says:

What i find very arrogant is this....
lets just say that this god is real for a moment.
Explain to me why the hell did your god not flick hitlers head off when he had the chance too before he started invading those countries? Why has your god handed out cancer to millions of people. The list goes on... This god is the epitimy of arrogance, telling people to pray for him and if they don't there gonna burn in hell for all eternity but... he loves you?
And to top it all off lets not forget that he murdered his own son.
That is pure arrogance in a nutshell.

You are becoming muddled Johnny, between MAN and GOD and EVIL and FREE WILL. There is not time to go into Theology here Johnny and long sincerely intentioned posts would serve no purpose anyway.

Kirk said

If you had a newly born Mayfly, wanted to keep it as a pet, and decided to go out and buy some materials from a DIY shop with which to build it a pet home but the journey to and from the shop took you 31 minutes, then your pet would already be dead when you returned because a Mayfly's life span is just 30 minutes. What was a mere fraction of time for you was AN ETERNITY for the Mayfly - its entire life cycle in fact.

Yet, we dare to try to pretend to comprehend the supernatural mysteries of a an eternal being?

Johnny

So you are saying that god has supernatural powers? Ok i can live with that.

Kirk said

Just a mere 100 years ago, if ALL the greatest scientists in the world were asked how many different species of 'clean animals' they could fit on a pinhead, the person posing the question would have been jumped on and shipped off to Bedlam.
Now, we know the answer is that over 60,000 animal cells will fit on the head of an average pin - all of them capable of being processed to create animal clones.

Johnny

Is this gonna be the premise of your noah argument that the animals all fit onto a pin, all 17.4 million of them at a time when the nearest thing to technology at hand was a rock and a stick then i'm gonna call you a cab with square wheels.

Again Johnny you are completely missing my point - I was using the 'pin head' analalogy to illustrate that what seemed a scientific impossibility and certain to invoke scoffs and mockery from 'know it alls' less than a century ago, is now accepted practice.

You see Johnny, Atheists are so blinkered that they only relate to things which lie squarely within those narrow parameters I talked about, and they reject out of hand the 'Super Natural' because it is not 'Super Technological', But the word 'Supernatural' means exactly that: ' a manifestation or event attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.'

'Beyond Scientific understanding or the Laws of Nature' - That is it in a nutshell, and just because something is 'Beyond' scientific understanding does not mean that it DOES not exist, because - as stated - our Scientific' understanding of life is ever changing -- Yesterday's scorn invoking impossibility is tomorrow's accepted reality.


I think to close here Johnny, I will post some quotes from my favourite 'Religion-Hating' Atheist buffoon, Richard DORKins because even he often trips himself up and reveals himself to be a BELIEVER. :

"I accept that there may be things far grander and more incomprehensible than we can possibly imagine." - Richard Dawkins

"Something pretty mysterious had to give rise to the origin of the universe." - Richard Dawkins

And an excerpt from one of my earlier posts on this subject Johnny:

“We are survival machines – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. This is a truth which still fills me with astonishment.” ― Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene.

The above issues from the mouth of the most fanatical decrier of 'Creationism' and 'Intelligent design -- "BLINDLY PROGRAMMED'!!!!

A quick dictionary definition:

programme ˈprəʊɡram/verb
past tense: programmed; past participle: programmed

1. provide (a computer or other machine) with coded instructions for the automatic performance of a task.

2. cause (a person or animal) to behave in a predetermined way.

Programmed by WHO Richard? Surely not that Grand Architect, that Master CREATOR we call GOD?

But who else could it be?

All of what has happened above this text is this.

Kirk, imagine if your text was clay, what you have written above back to me is basically the equivalent of you holding a large block of clay and each time i ask you a simple question you squeeze this clay and mould it into something else whilst avoiding giving me an actual straight answer to things i have clearly asked you to. You presume that i am a devoted Hawkins/hitchens or whoever it is fan and therefore can only comment on issues after i have got their full permission. lol I don't even like science or scienfiction for that matter. It is very frustrating to ask you a question and to not get an honest answer.
I have a few questions below and i have numbered them.

1.Explain Noah's Ark.
2.You havn't explained why god allowed hitler to do what he did.
3.Nor have you explained why millions of people have cancer, no explanation as to why god created this and gave it to innocent people.
4.Why is god allowing millions of people to starve to death on a daily basis?
5.Why did he create aids?

The list is endless...
You clearly state/claim that YOUR god created EVERYTHING.
Final Question...

6.So all the other gods before your god and all the worlds leading thinkers in all subjects are wrong because you are right?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

All of what has happened above this text is this.

Kirk, imagine if your text was clay, what you have written above back to me is basically the equivalent of you holding a large block of clay and each time i ask you a simple question you squeeze this clay and mould it into something else whilst avoiding giving me an actual straight answer to things i have clearly asked you to. You presume that i am a devoted Hawkins/hitchens or whoever it is fan and therefore can only comment on issues after i have got their full permission. lol I don't even like science or scienfiction for that matter. It is very frustrating to ask you a question and to not get an honest answer.
I have a few questions below and i have numbered them.

1.Explain Noah's Ark.
2.You havn't explained why god allowed hitler to do what he did.
3.Nor have you explained why millions of people have cancer, no explanation as to why god created this and gave it to innocent people.
4.Why is god allowing millions of people to starve to death on a daily basis?
5.Why did he create aids?

The list is endless...
You clearly state/claim that YOUR god created EVERYTHING.
Final Question...

6.So all the other gods before your god and all the worlds leading thinkers in all subjects are wrong because you are right?

Yes I don't get this. I have never even read a Dawkins book or watched a Dawkins video yet people assume that if you don't believe in God you must follow Richard Dawkins?

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes I don't get this. I have never even read a Dawkins book or watched a Dawkins video yet people assume that if you don't believe in God you must follow Richard Dawkins?

Oh and don't forget we apparently hate religion too. lol
So if i don't follow the spice girls does that mean i'm a girls aloud fan?

[Kizzy]

My fave one is 'Oh you're not religious... so you don't believe in god?'

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

My fave one is 'Oh you're not religious... so you don't believe in god?'

Yes that's a good point, I actually don't believe in God but my mother does but she's not at all religious

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes that's a good point, I actually don't believe in God but my mother does but she's not at all religious

I think to find someone who is truly religious is as rare as hens teeth.
Those who profess to be aren't they sin and go against the word of whatever book they prefer as much as the next man.
Most are just paying lip service imo, turn the other cheek?... no I smacked him in the mouth!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes I don't get this. I have never even read a Dawkins book or watched a Dawkins video yet people assume that if you don't believe in God you must follow Richard Dawkins?

I used Dawkins quote because he is an atheist and I agreed with his comment. Not because I thought anyone on this thread who isn't religious must be a Dawkins fan.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I think to find someone who is truly religious is as rare as hens teeth.
Those who profess to be aren't they sin and go against the word of whatever book they prefer as much as the next man.
Most are just paying lip service imo, turn the other cheek?... no I smacked him in the mouth!

Bit judgemental.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Livia

I used Dawkins quote because he is an atheist and I agreed with his comment. Not because I thought anyone on this thread who isn't religious must be a Dawkins fan.

Oh I was just responding to Johnnys post as a more general thing not specifically to do with this thread

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh I was just responding to Johnnys post as a more general thing not specifically to do with this thread

Oh that's okay then... I was on my way over to slap you around.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Livia

Oh that's okay then... I was on my way over to slap you around.

waaaa

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Bit judgemental.

An wot?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

An wot?

What does that mean?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

What does that mean?

It means 'and what' as in 'it's my opinion and what can you do about it?'
I love a colloquialism me....