[bots]

Russia has never deviated from its position that it thinks its a bad idea to remove Assad, whatever the motivations.

America, the UK etc tried to be sneaky and force a regime change, something they are not supposed to do, yet were quite happy to try and force anyway, hence their support of opposition forces ... including IS. A few years down the line and they have said ... whoopsie ... shouldn't have enabled IS ... and now they have come to the realisation that there won't be a solution to IS without Assad at the helm. So, that means they now have pretty much the exact same stance as Russia now ... they just don't want to admit it because it shows them up for the fools that they have been

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Dress it as attacking Anti Assad forces all you like, but Russia has caused ISIS to run and scramble more in the matter of weeks than the likes of US and UK have for about a year now of air strikes. Seeing it any other way is hating Russia for the sake of it. Besides...if it wasn't for the west seeing these So called moderate rebels and heroic, brave soldiers fighting Assad as allies then ISIS would never have got to this stage. The warnings were there to see, but continued funding and arms supply continued.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Russia has never deviated from its position that it thinks its a bad idea to remove Assad, whatever the motivations.

America, the UK etc tried to be sneaky and force a regime change, something they are not supposed to do, yet were quite happy to try and force anyway, hence their support of opposition forces ... including IS. A few years down the line and they have said ... whoopsie ... shouldn't have enabled IS ... and now they have come to the realisation that there won't be a solution to IS without Assad at the helm. So, that means they now have pretty much the exact same stance as Russia now ... they just don't want to admit it because it shows them up for the fools that they have been

Agree, Russia's intervention actually looks like it could tip the balance against ISIS. Say what you like about them but at least the Russian position on Syria has been consistent, the West's has been a mess and Turkey's even worse than that.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Agree, Russia's intervention actually looks like it could tip the balance against ISIS. Say what you like about them but at least the Russian position on Syria has been consistent, the West's has been a mess and Turkey's even worse than that.

yes, Russia has been consistent in their support for a brutal dictator, i don't see how you can see that as a good thing...The west actually deals with things as they change and evolve and then change their approach accordingly... you know, like all rational people would do.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by lostalex

yes, Russia has been consistent in their support for a brutal dictator, i don't see how you can see that as a good thing...The west actually deals with things as they change and evolve and then change their approach accordingly... you know, like all rational people would do.

Well it's the Russian line that the West have been gradually moving towards, your government included. It was always fanciful to think that tiny bands of 'moderate' rebels would be capable of defeating both IS and the Syrian government and establishing some new democratic state in its place.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well it's the Russian line that the West have been gradually moving towards, your government included. It was always fanciful to think that tiny bands of 'moderate' rebels would be capable of defeating both IS and the Syrian government and establishing some new democratic state in its place.

but there are actually lots of syrians that are fighting for real democracy, they are not ISIS, they are people that truly want democracy. Russia just says "**** them, we like having Assad as a friend".

Sorry, but it doesn't matter if it's even just 20 people who want democracy, it is the US and Nato's job to support them, and i'm proud that we do. When there are people who genuinely want to fight against a brutal dictator, we should support them. Even if it means sometimes we are taken advantage of, and our weapons get into the wrong hands. It;'s not okay to give up on the idea of democracy in the middle east.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but there are actually lots of syrians that are fighting for real democracy, they are not ISIS, they are people that truly want democracy. Russia just says "**** them, we like having Assad as a friend".

Sorry, but it doesn't matter if it's even just 20 people who want democracy, it is the US and Nato's job to support them, and i'm proud that we do. When there are people who genuinely want to fight against a brutal dictator, we should support them. Even if it means sometimes we are taken advantage of, and our weapons get into the wrong hands. It;'s not okay to give up on the idea of democracy in the middle east.

Well the US didn't do a great job when Obama drew his 'red line' over using chemical weapons and then did nothing when Assad crossed that red line. And if the West really cared that much about every government being a democracy then they would have to be fomenting uprisings against half the governments in the world but they don't. Some of our closest allies are counties with brutal governments. And maybe that's just international relations for you. It's almost impossible to have an 'ethical foreign policy' in practice, you've got to deal with the world as it is and not how you want it to be.

The first priority is to defeat ISIS and the Syrian army is the main force capable of doing that in the country. After that can come discussions of a political settlement and whether Assad should have any role in it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Agree, Russia's intervention actually looks like it could tip the balance against ISIS. Say what you like about them but at least the Russian position on Syria has been consistent, the West's has been a mess and Turkey's even worse than that.

The great thing about politics is, we all have the right to change our mind!

I had a day off today and so spent a lot of time looking through sources we aren't privy to unless we dig deep...Yeah I should get a life

Yesterday, I would of disagreed with you. Today I totally agree with you.