[kirklancaster]

I know this is going to lower me in the 'Tibb Popularity Lists' even more, but I'm sorry - I cannot contain myself.

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them, provided housing for them to live in, and Mosques for them to worship in. We have even allowed them to practice Sharia Law in some forms.

And yes, SOME Muslims DO integrate, and ARE friendly, but a whole LOT more do not and are not.

A whole lot more HAVE clustered themselves into 'Ghettos' as LeatherTrumpet so rightly says, and they do not WANT to 'mix' with the indigenous British. They do not WANT to accept our laws, our customs and traditions, our 'Way of Life. They do not WANT to integrate.

Some of you may have 'lived side by side' with Muslims and found no problem, no hostility, no threat, and that's YOUR own direct experience which is good. There is however, another side to the coin - Muslim areas which are virtually 'No Go' to Non-Muslims and even British Policemen.

Parts of Southall and Tower Hamlets in London, parts of Burnley in Lancashire, and Bradford and Huddersfield in Yorkshire - among many others - all have Muslim ghettos where white non-Muslims who know the areas well, steer clear of.

Integration - like Racial Tolerance - is a 'two way sword', and not ALL immigrants who come here WANT any part of either.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I know this is going to lower me in the 'Tibb Popularity Lists' even more, but I'm sorry - I cannot contain myself.

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them, provided housing for them to live in, and Mosques for them to worship in. We have even allowed the to practice Sharia Law in some forms.

And yes, SOME Muslims DO integrate, and ARE friendly, but a whole LOT more do not and are not.

A whole lot more HAVE clustered themselves into 'Ghettos' as LeatherTrumpet so rightly says, and they do not WANT to 'mix' with the indigenous British. They do not WANT to accept our laws, our customs and traditions, our 'Way of Life. They do not WANT to integrate.

Some of you may have 'lived side by side' with Muslims and found no problem, no hostility, no threat, and that's YOUR own direct experience which is good. There is however, another side to the coin - Muslim areas which are virtually 'No Go' to Non-Muslims and even British Policemen.

Parts of Southall and Tower Hamlets in London, parts of Burnley in Lancashire, and Bradford and Huddersfield in Yorkshire - among many others - all have Muslim ghettos where white non-Muslims who know the areas well, steer clear of.

Integration - like Racial Tolerance - is a 'two way sword', and not ALL immigrants who come here WANT any part of either.

I think you make some good points on what you're saying, but sadly it's very different to what Donald Trump wants which is to setup a way for the Governments in future to make you have to have ID just to go to your nearest shop, because don't believe that it will just be for Muslims is his real intentions.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I know this is going to lower me in the 'Tibb Popularity Lists' even more, but I'm sorry - I cannot contain myself.

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them, provided housing for them to live in, and Mosques for them to worship in. We have even allowed them to practice Sharia Law in some forms.

And yes, SOME Muslims DO integrate, and ARE friendly, but a whole LOT more do not and are not.

A whole lot more HAVE clustered themselves into 'Ghettos' as LeatherTrumpet so rightly says, and they do not WANT to 'mix' with the indigenous British. They do not WANT to accept our laws, our customs and traditions, our 'Way of Life. They do not WANT to integrate.

Some of you may have 'lived side by side' with Muslims and found no problem, no hostility, no threat, and that's YOUR own direct experience which is good. There is however, another side to the coin - Muslim areas which are virtually 'No Go' to Non-Muslims and even British Policemen.

Parts of Southall and Tower Hamlets in London, parts of Burnley in Lancashire, and Bradford and Huddersfield in Yorkshire - among many others - all have Muslim ghettos where white non-Muslims who know the areas well, steer clear of.

Integration - like Racial Tolerance - is a 'two way sword', and not ALL immigrants who come here WANT any part of either.

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There are a few places in the UK I would consider no go areas but none of them are Muslim. There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities. If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions.

Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like.

Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem. I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is.

There's a difference between forming large communities and expecting the existing communities to make exceptions for you.

Try walking round Whitechapel in a short skirt, or with a cigarette in your hand and I guarantee you will be approached and castigated about your attire or the fact you're smoking and don't have a penis. And then try walking round Stamford Hill (or indeed Hackney) in the same outfit and watch the Orthodox Jews ignore you. That's the difference. We make exceptions for Muslims that we never make for other religions. I've never heard anyone worry about upsetting the Hindus because the Hindus don't expect us to change our national identity to fit in with them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

There's a difference between forming large communities and expecting the existing communities to make exceptions for you.

Try walking round Whitechapel in a short skirt, or with a cigarette in your hand and I guarantee you will be approached and castigated about your attire or the fact you're smoking and don't have a penis. And then try walking round Stamford Hill (or indeed Hackney) in the same outfit and watch the Orthodox Jews ignore you. That's the difference. We make exceptions for Muslims that we never make for other religions. I've never heard anyone worry about upsetting the Hindus because the Hindus don't expect us to change our national identity to fit in with them.

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

It does happen though Kizzy, I have seen it in my travels. Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition. For me, that is the key difference.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It does happen though Kizzy, I have seen it in my travels. Other religious groups don't tend to be quite so aggressively proactive in their opposition. For me, that is the key difference.

Really, never been to Ireland then?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Really, never been to Ireland then?

Eh?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Really, never been to Ireland then?

If you need to stretch to Ireland to find a comparison, I think it shows the validity of my statement tbh

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

Oh... so your wild generalisation yesterday was acceptable because it was your opinion. Whereas mine is just a common or garden generalisation? LOL... you crack me up.

Sharia patrols operate in Whitechapel. London. It's been covered often in the press. I'm surprised you've missed it frankly.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Oh... so your wild generalisation yesterday was acceptable because it was your opinion. Whereas mine is just a common or garden generalisation? LOL... you crack me up.

Sharia patrols operate in Whitechapel. London. It's been covered often in the press. I'm surprised you've missed it frankly.

And that report is concrete evidence of your accusation against all Muslims?
It's a generalisation.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where is this? I regularly use Bradford city centre which has a large Muslim community, I have never seen a woman approached for the way they are dressed or because they smoke, that's a massive generalisation there.

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.

Youtube video

Yes I see that Stacy Dooley was approached at a protest march and that she was told that as a non Muslim she would burn in hell.

Do Christian faiths not also suggest that those outside of their religions are destined to eternal damnation?

Do we see every Christian extol that view? No. Do we see every Muslim extol that view? No.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes I see that Stacy Dooley was approached at a protest march and that she was told that as a non Muslim she would burn in hell.

Do Christian faiths not also suggest that those outside of their religions are destined to eternal damnation?

Do we see every Christian extol that view? No. Do we see every Muslim extol that view? No.

There is no kind of evidence that would dissuade you now you're stretching for the last word.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that moderate Muslims are the problem, they're not. It's the more radical Muslims that take the freedoms we have and criticise us for them.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Youtube video

Yes ideal For FoxNewsHD


Shocking that Stacey spoke to him (at the end)
waste of time
he said unless she changes
she goes to Hell.


He should be arrested,
again

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes ideal For FoxNewsHD


Shocking that Stacey spoke to him (at the end)
waste of time
he said unless she changes
she goes to Hell.


He should be arrested,
again

Sadly though, people died for the freedom to protest in this country, which has given people like him the right to stand up and damn us all to hell. They choose to live here and then use our own freedom to attack us.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.

Youtube video

The sad truth of Islam in Britain.Alot of them will be all nicey nicey when you're giving them money in their taxi or corner shop.Then do things like this when they leave work and don't have to tolerate you anymore.I have seen many racist gangs of muslims abusing non muslims.I've seen a muslim man with a veiled white woman dragging her down the street and kicking and shouting at her.They spit at and abuse our soldiers and hold 'protests' with placards saying 'Death to all non believers.Of course people choose to ignore all of this for fear of upsetting them.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The sad truth of Islam in Britain.Alot of them will be all nicey nicey when you're giving them money in their taxi or corner shop.Then do things like this when they leave work and don't have to tolerate you anymore.I have seen many racist gangs of muslims abusing non muslims.I've seen a muslim man with a veiled white woman dragging her down the street and kicking and shouting at her.They spit at and abuse our soldiers and hold 'protests' with placards saying 'Death to all non believers.Of course people choose to ignore all of this for fear of upsetting them.

No we don't ignore it, but like white English thugs they are a small minority

[kirklancaster]

There ARE Muslim 'No Go' areas throughout the UK - I have been there and so have others on here, if any have the courage to stand up against the usual over-heated backlash every time some do speak the truth.

"There's a lot of sink estates in England, especially London and Birmingham, that have Pakistanis, Bangladeshi and Afro-Caribbean communities."

I am NOT disputing what you say above about other 'ethnic' ghettos but my post was confined to 'Muslims' because this thread is specifically about Muslims and the comments to which I referred and responded to were made by posters on this thread specifically about Muslims.

"If you want to rant on about how us Brits have opened this country for all these immigrants, then you can't just speak about Muslims, you have to include Orthodox Jews, Hindus and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions."


My post was NOT a rant unlike your response here. You are the one doing the ranting Red, and again, my post was confined to 'Muslims' because this thread is specifically about Muslims and the comments to which I referred and responded to were made by posters on this thread specifically about Muslims. If you want to discuss other 'ethnic' ghetto's please start a new thread and I will gladly contribute.

"Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion is yet another 'bait and switch' Kirk. Sink estates and no go areas are not a religious issue, rather one of general poverty and alienation..."

I am NOT "Blaming ghetto situations on one specific religion" - that is clearly NOT what I said - I am saying that SOME Muslim immigrants freely ELECT to insulate themselves from the rest of mainstream Britain, and CHOOSE to create their own 'ghettos', and OPT not to integrate and accept our way of life, our laws and traditions, and if you KNOW differently, then you are living in la la land. '

"...and if you want to moan about all these bloody immigrants and how 'we' the Brits have welcomed these unappreciative people with open arms, lets at least include all ethnic minorities and not just the ones you don't like. "

Now this is totally unacceptable. Do not presume to know me and know what or who I "don't like". You do not know me. You do not know my likes and dislikes.

You are totally - and clearly - wrong in stating this last on so many counts:

a) I have already stated WHY I did not include any other 'ethnic minorities' (a misnomer if ever there was one where certain parts of the UK are concerned) and my explanation is both logical and true - Do we start discussing apples, pears and bananas on a thread which is specifically discussing oranges?

b) "Moaning about bloody immigrants" is NOT what I was doing - I was moaning about certain people forever using certain cliched terms when talking about Muslims; "I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims" - is EXACTLY what I said. It's there in my post for you to check.

I was merely STATING FACTS about some Muslims - and that truth seems to have so illogically enraged you that you misrepresent what I actually said and caused you to respond with this ilogical 'rant'.

"Oh and please don't tell me Orthodox Jews, Hindus and AC's don't form their own large communities...but then, why shouldn't they?. If they want to keep themselves to themselves what's the problem."

And??? What is your point? And what has it to do with my post?

"I lived in Hackney for a while and not once did I get to have a conversation with an Orthodox Jew. I didn't leave Hackney resentfully believing Orthodox Jews were intolerant of people outside their faith, I just accepted they rarely mix and that's the way it is."

Good for you. I have lived in Islington for a time and Minehead and Scarborough and Manchester for a time - among other locations - and I have made lots of friends with Orthodox Jews as well as Non-Orthodox Jews, and even dated a couple of Jewish girls in my youth. What have Jews in particular got to do with my post which was specifically on Muslims for the reasons I stated?

Or is this just more 'back-door' tactics of mildly slating Judaism because you perceive from my posts that I am 'Jew Friendly'? You know, the way you did with Christianity because I am a Christian when you needlessly wrote: "and the Afro Caribbean who use all sorts of feral Christian religions."?

I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.

[MB.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There ARE Muslim 'No Go' areas throughout the UK - I have been there.

Well that's already a contradiction

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MB.

Well that's already a contradiction

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MB.

Well that's already a contradiction

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MB.

Well that's already a contradiction

Not at all - I am a dark skinned British part Asian - not a Muslim Asian but part Asian nonetheless, and I went to quite a few of these West Yorkshire 'Ghettos' with dark skinned full blown Muslim Asians.

If you are a white skinned English non-Muslim, I would be glad to meet you and take you to some of these places and I'll wait in my car for you while you bravely walk on by yourself - past the Asian shops where up to 20 youths hang around, then - if the derisory cat-calls and threatening stares or worse do not deter you - you can continue up the streets where you will meet more of the same aggression and hostility.

We'll see how quickly you run back to my car.

No contradiction at all see?