[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

If you need to stretch to Ireland to find a comparison, I think it shows the validity of my statement tbh

Stretch?... It's not that far away :/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But it wasn't at all though, our country was torn in two, that's what it was about. The IRA had Protestant members too. It was completely about some of the people from Northern Ireland wanting Ireland to be united and some (mainly Protestant because they probably originally came over from Britain) wanting to be British. It's bizarre to me that English people think it was a Religious war, Hello you invaded our country and split it in two........that's what it's about

The original invasion did also have a religious element to it, as for the argument that only Muslims integrate. This could be applied here too, as however you look at it there is a degree of resistance to integrate from the Irish Catholics, either with the British or with Protestantism.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The original invasion did also have a religious element to it, as for the argument that only Muslims integrate. This could be applied here too, as however you look at it there is a degree of resistance to integrate from the Irish Catholics, either with the British or with Protestantism.

You say that like the "Irish" Northern Irish just moved to Britain lol not that they feel like foreigners in their own country

catholic Irish people who move to England integrate just fine with British people and protestants.........do you see the difference? **** all to do with religion

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

It has happened in Luton Kizzy.

Youtube video

Yes I see that Stacy Dooley was approached at a protest march and that she was told that as a non Muslim she would burn in hell.

Do Christian faiths not also suggest that those outside of their religions are destined to eternal damnation?

Do we see every Christian extol that view? No. Do we see every Muslim extol that view? No.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes I see that Stacy Dooley was approached at a protest march and that she was told that as a non Muslim she would burn in hell.

Do Christian faiths not also suggest that those outside of their religions are destined to eternal damnation?

Do we see every Christian extol that view? No. Do we see every Muslim extol that view? No.

There is no kind of evidence that would dissuade you now you're stretching for the last word.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that moderate Muslims are the problem, they're not. It's the more radical Muslims that take the freedoms we have and criticise us for them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You say that like the "Irish" Northern Irish just moved to Britain lol not that they feel like foreigners in their own country

catholic Irish people who move to England integrate just fine with British people and protestants.........do you see the difference? **** all to do with religion

Ok yes I do see a difference, I wasn't trying to upset or offend you I'm very sorry if I have.
Growing up in the 80s it did feel or it was sold as a religious sectarian issue.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

There is no kind of evidence that would dissuade you now you're stretching for the last word.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that moderate Muslims are the problem, they're not. It's the more radical Muslims that take the freedoms we have and criticise us for them.

I'm having my say Livia yes.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MB.

Well that's already a contradiction

Not at all - I am a dark skinned British part Asian - not a Muslim Asian but part Asian nonetheless, and I went to quite a few of these West Yorkshire 'Ghettos' with dark skinned full blown Muslim Asians.

If you are a white skinned English non-Muslim, I would be glad to meet you and take you to some of these places and I'll wait in my car for you while you bravely walk on by yourself - past the Asian shops where up to 20 youths hang around, then - if the derisory cat-calls and threatening stares or worse do not deter you - you can continue up the streets where you will meet more of the same aggression and hostility.

We'll see how quickly you run back to my car.

No contradiction at all see?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ok yes I do see a difference, I wasn't trying to upset or offend you I'm very sorry if I have.
Growing up in the 80s it did feel or it was sold as a religious sectarian issue.

No worries

[arista]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Youtube video

Yes ideal For FoxNewsHD


Shocking that Stacey spoke to him (at the end)
waste of time
he said unless she changes
she goes to Hell.


He should be arrested,
again

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;8314426]'I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.'

"As is Red and myself, what makes your opinion and experience any more valid than ours?... It doesn't therefore your constant challenges and defamation of our perspective is disingenuous."


What does this which I underscored actually mean?

WHERE DID I SAY THAT MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCE IS ANY MORE VALID THAN YOURS? Stick to facts, your constant misrepresenting is wearing.


"I agreed with RD and I used an applause emoticon if this is directed at me I feel that is both rude and unfair, I do agree with the comments made and it is not for you to judge her experiences."


I could not care less who you so predictably agree with. And if I the cap fits wear it, because DID I NAME YOU?

My point is that how can one agree with a response post which MISINTERPRETS the points made in the original post which it is responding to? Especially when the author of that original post has taken the time and trouble to reply and point out such misinterpretations?

Still agreeing after the above, shows not empathy through a shared point of view, but bigotry purely because such a response is against the original poster.

"The applause emoticon is used regularly by yourself too as I recall therefore I find your comment a tad hypocritical."


Another blatantly false statement based on convenient supposition NOT facts. Yes I use the applause emoticon regularly, but not in any sheep-like manner to merely support members who I like or who hold the same political opinions that I do, I applaud posts ONLY where I GENUINELY regard such posts as being meritorious - no matter WHO is posting them.

I have applauded posts by your good self, Joey Steele, Demolition Red, ToySoldier, Cherie, and a host of other members - NONE of whom particularly share my politics or other views.

However, I notice that despite me regularly being among the MOST applauded on here for my posts - if not THE most applauded - YOU have never seen fit to applaud ANY of my posts. I would say that is more 'telling' than 'coincidence' and just corroborates the very point I made in my post which you are decrying and responding to.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes ideal For FoxNewsHD


Shocking that Stacey spoke to him (at the end)
waste of time
he said unless she changes
she goes to Hell.


He should be arrested,
again

Sadly though, people died for the freedom to protest in this country, which has given people like him the right to stand up and damn us all to hell. They choose to live here and then use our own freedom to attack us.

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=kirklancaster;8314684]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'I was not slating all Muslims - neither the religion nor the people - but stating a plain fact about SOME which I KNOW of from my own direct experience, so your over-reaction is really uncalled for.

Incidentally, the way that certain posts on here ALWAYS attract applause emoticons from certain members REGARDLESS of any truth or merit or lack of them, in the post, is both predictable AND laughable.'

"As is Red and myself, what makes your opinion and experience any more valid than ours?... It doesn't therefore your constant challenges and defamation of our perspective is disingenuous."


What does this which I underscored actually mean?

WHERE DID I SAY THAT MY OPINION AND EXPERIENCE IS ANY MORE VALID THAN YOURS? Stick to facts, your constant misrepresenting is wearing.


"I agreed with RD and I used an applause emoticon if this is directed at me I feel that is both rude and unfair, I do agree with the comments made and it is not for you to judge her experiences."


I could not care less who you so predictably agree with. And if I the cap fits wear it, because DID I NAME YOU?

My point is that how can one agree with a response post which MISINTERPRETS the points made in the original post which it is responding to? Especially when the author of that original post has taken the time and trouble to reply and point out such misinterpretations?

Still agreeing after the above, shows not empathy through a shared point of view, but bigotry purely because such a response is against the original poster.

"The applause emoticon is used regularly by yourself too as I recall therefore I find your comment a tad hypocritical."


Another blatantly false statement based on convenient supposition NOT facts. Yes I use the applause emoticon regularly, but not in any sheep-like manner to merely support members who I like or who hold the same political opinions that I do, I applaud posts ONLY where I GENUINELY regard such posts as being meritorious - no matter WHO is posting them.

I have applauded posts by your good self, Joey Steele, Demolition Red, ToySoldier, Cherie, and a host of other members - NONE of whom particularly share my politics or other views.

However, I notice that despite me regularly being among the MOST applauded on here for my posts - if not THE most applauded - YOU have never seen fit to applaud ANY of my posts. I would say that is more 'telling' than 'coincidence' and just corroborates the very point I made in my post which you are decrying and responding to.

Not blowing your own trumpet a tad?... dear me, I just clapped as I agreed with a post :/
Let's stick to the topic.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Sadly though, people died for the freedom to protest in this country, which has given people like him the right to stand up and damn us all to hell. They choose to live here and then use our own freedom to attack us.

And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.

That is not me suggesting for one second I agree with the chants in the vid, just to avoid any confusion.

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;8314705]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Not blowing your own trumpet a tad?... dear me, I just clapped as I agreed with a post :/
Let's stick to the topic.

No - not blowing my own trumpet, just stating facts.

I have no probem 'sticking to topics' but like to do so without constantly being deliberately misinterpreted and misrepresented for the sake of argument winning.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.

That is not me suggesting for one second I agree with the chants in the vid, just to avoid any confusion.

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

Agree with that totally

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

[Kizzy]

[QUOTE=kirklancaster;8314717]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No - not blowing my own trumpet, just stating facts.

I have no probem 'sticking to topics' but like to do so without constantly being deliberately misinterpreted and misrepresented for the sake of argument winning.

You did this when you commented on my clapping, I was just defending my right to agree with whoever I like.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.

That is not me suggesting for one second I agree with the chants in the vid, just to avoid any confusion.

There comes a 'Tipping Point' in ANY democracy, when hate-fuelled rants and draconian intimidation of others lie OUTSIDE any rights to LIBERTY and FREEDOM of SPEECH, irrespective of what colour, caste, creed or Nationality the perpetrators are - what is 'sauce' for bigotted WHITE British Racists is sauce for bigoted NON-WHITE BRITISH racists.

In my world anyway. Which is a world I want to retain as much of as possible for my children and grandchildren to grow up in.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Whether or not they're British born Muslims they've got a neck if they think they can tell British women - indigenous or not - to dress a certain way after hundreds of years of struggle to allow us to wear what the hell we want to wear. I don't want to be dragged back to the dark ages and anyone who is accosted by them should laugh in their face.

It was a woman in the crowd that made those comments, it was not the reason for the protest nor the words of the Imam she spoke to.
Again suggesting that is the feeling of all British Muslims is a generalisation.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

There comes a 'Tipping Point' in ANY democracy, when hate-fuelled rants and draconian intimidation of others lie OUTSIDE any rights to LIBERTY and FREEDOM of SPEECH, irrespective of what colour, caste, creed or Nationality the perpetrators are - what is 'sauce' for bigotted WHITE British Racists is sauce for bigoted NON-WHITE BRITISH racists.

In my world anyway. Which is a world I want to retain as much of as possible for my children and grandchildren to grow up in.

Which is why we have hate laws.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Which is why we have hate laws.

: joker:
You kidding me?

You type this:

Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
And if they are British born Muslims, whose freedoms are they.. theirs, yours, mine?
Who are 'us'? If you are here you have rights, for now.


Which is CLEARLY defending the rights of the intolerant arrogant bastards in the video, so I respond with this:

Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post
"There comes a 'Tipping Point' in ANY democracy, when hate-fuelled rants and draconian intimidation of others lie OUTSIDE any rights to LIBERTY and FREEDOM of SPEECH, irrespective of what colour, caste, creed or Nationality the perpetrators are - what is 'sauce' for bigotted WHITE British Racists is sauce for bigoted NON-WHITE BRITISH racists.

In my world anyway. Which is a world I want to retain as much of as possible for my children and grandchildren to grow up in."

Then you respond with this:

"Which is why we have hate laws"

Your posts REALLY are confused Kizzy, sorry.

Why would 'Hate Laws' come into this if - as you claimed - these bastards have the 'freedom' to act in the hateful way they are acting in the video?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It was a woman in the crowd that made those comments, it was not the reason for the protest nor the words of the Imam she spoke to.
Again suggesting that is the feeling of all British Muslims is a generalisation.

So? I don't care who said it, what the reason for the protest was nor what the imam said in that one piece of film.

Please, point out who has said that it is the feeling of ALL British Muslims. I have no problem with the moderates, I don't suppose most people do. Only with the fundamentalists. And you'll notice, there's nothing like the trouble in this country with fundamentalists from any other faith but Islam.

[DemolitionRed]

On analyses of your post I responded to, lets see why I responded like I did

I am sick to ******* death of hearing phrases such as 'Alienating' and 'segregating' and 'ostracising' when it comes to immigrants, especially Muslims.

and then you say:

The British people have opened up this country for them, welcomed them with open arms, and extended jobs or benefits to them

So you say you hate the word 'alienate' but then went on to 'alienate' Muslims from every other type of immigrant who apparently bleed our system dry?