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bots · 06-12-2015, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

I find it very interesting and telling how quickly the general public have stopped hooting and crowing about these airstrikes now that videos and pictures of the effects on normal civilians in Syria have started going semi-viral, and the politicians have started admitting that collateral damage is inevitable in the "messy business" of war. Turns out people only have a stomach for warmongering when they can pretend it's just Johnny Isis getting blown to bits, or people in full Muslim dress. When it's normal kids in baseball caps and pigtails it's a little harder to start puffing your chest about I guess. Gives me SOME hope for people I suppose. A little.

Can you please indicate to me the effects on Syrian people from British air strikes since the vote?

We didnt vote for any other countries involvement, only our own.

user104658 · 06-12-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

Can you please indicate to me the effects on Syrian people from British air strikes since the vote?

We didnt vote for any other countries involvement, only our own.

Sorry I forgot we were only doing strikes with nerf foam missiles and water balloons. It now seems obvious to me that, while other countries will be doing the bad air strikes, we will only do awesome ones, because UK.

Except that there have been high up government figures today outright stating that collateral damage (That means dead children, to the layperson, though they steer clear of such terms) are "inevitable" because "war is messy business" - a phrase so detached from the brutal reality of its own meaning that it makes me sick to my stomach. Although I suspect that's exactly how most high level politicians see it. Messy business and numbers.

bots · 06-12-2015, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

Sorry I forgot we were only doing strikes with nerf foam missiles and water balloons. It now seems obvious to me that, while other countries will be doing the bad air strikes, we will only do awesome ones, because UK.

Except that there have been high up government figures today outright stating that collateral damage (That means dead children, to the layperson, though they steer clear of such terms) are "inevitable" because "war is messy business" - a phrase so detached from the brutal reality of its own meaning that it makes me sick to my stomach. Although I suspect that's exactly how most high level politicians see it. Messy business and numbers.

Doesn't mean it will be the norm, far from it. UK bombing of ISIS in Iraq, no civilian casualties so far. Its not the objective of the missions to kill civilians, you paint it like it is, which is both disgusting and wrong

I am fully in support of air strikes, and I will not be made to feel that is wrong by your conjecture.

There was a time in the UK when people supported our forces once a decision had been made to take action in a country. People who now don't accept the will of parliament and continue to undermine the decision are nothing short of traitors in my opinion.

user104658 · 06-12-2015, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

Doesn't mean it will be the norm, far from it. UK bombing of ISIS in Iraq, no civilian casualties so far. Its not the objective of the missions to kill civilians, you paint it like it is, which is both disgusting and wrong

I am fully in support of air strikes, and I will not be made to feel that is wrong by your conjecture.

I have at no point made out that it's the objective? It isn't the objective of drunk drivers to kill people either. "Sorry ossifer I were just trying to get home from the pub!" "Oh that's OK then sir, on your way then, I'll mop up the pieces of this child". If you can quote me "wrongly and disgustingly" painting it out to be the objective then feel free to do so, you emotive little fellow.

Im also not trying to "make you feel that it's wrong" any more than you are trying to "make others feel that it's right". Unless you are? I don't know. I can tell you that you're just as unlikely to convince anyone as I am, if that helps at all, and I have no expectations of changing anyone's opinion. Ever. People are stubborn, and don't change, and supporters of war will remain supporters of war. I have no illusions about that. I'm not making empassioned speeches in hopes of changing the world, which I don't like, or people, who I like even less. I'm content musing and passing comment on the inevitable descent of civilisation, actually.

bots · 06-12-2015, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

I have at no point made out that it's the objective? It isn't the objective of drunk drivers to kill people either. "Sorry ossifer I were just trying to get home from the pub!" "Oh that's OK then sir, on your way then, I'll mop up the pieces of this child". If you can quote me "wrongly and disgustingly" painting it out to be the objective then feel free to do so, you emotive little fellow.

Im also not trying to "make you feel that it's wrong" any more than you are trying to "make others feel that it's right". Unless you are? I don't know. I can tell you that you're just as unlikely to convince anyone as I am, if that helps at all, and I have no expectations of changing anyone's opinion. Ever. People are stubborn, and don't change, and supporters of war will remain supporters of war. I have no illusions about that. I'm not making empassioned speeches in hopes of changing the world, which I don't like, or people, who I like even less. I'm content musing and passing comment on the inevitable descent of civilisation, actually.

I edited my above post, so just for clarity, i will repeat it here :

There was a time in the UK when people supported our forces once a decision had been made to take action in a country. People who now don't accept the will of parliament and continue to undermine the decision are nothing short of traitors in my opinion.

user104658 · 06-12-2015, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

I edited my above post, so just for clarity, i will repeat it here :

There was a time in the UK when people supported our forces once a decision had been made to take action in a country. People who now don't accept the will of parliament and continue to undermine the decision are nothing short of traitors in my opinion.

And I will repeat that you are an exceptionally emotive little fellow, but also that your attempts at moral blackmail are even less likely to work than Mr Cameron's.

People don't support decisions to send the country to war any more because we know from experience - and better free flow of information - that they are often **** decisions with horrendous repercussions. I'll not apologise for being less ignorant than our sheep-like ancestors who lapped up anything daddy government fed them.

Tom4784 · 06-12-2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

I edited my above post, so just for clarity, i will repeat it here :

There was a time in the UK when people supported our forces once a decision had been made to take action in a country. People who now don't accept the will of parliament and continue to undermine the decision are nothing short of traitors in my opinion.

Change 'parliament' with 'Islam' and you'd sound a lot like an IS member there... Quite ironic, no?

Kizzy · 06-12-2015, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

Doesn't mean it will be the norm, far from it. UK bombing of ISIS in Iraq, no civilian casualties so far. Its not the objective of the missions to kill civilians, you paint it like it is, which is both disgusting and wrong

I am fully in support of air strikes, and I will not be made to feel that is wrong by your conjecture.

There was a time in the UK when people supported our forces once a decision had been made to take action in a country. People who now don't accept the will of parliament and continue to undermine the decision are nothing short of traitors in my opinion.

What an odd thing to say, parliament make decisions on 100s of things throughout the year are you suggesting everyone fall in line with everything regardless of their own personal politics?.....

DemolitionRed · 06-12-2015, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elf On Strike

There was a time in the UK when people supported our forces once a decision had been made to take action in a country. People who now don't accept the will of parliament and continue to undermine the decision are nothing short of traitors in my opinion.

Wait, what?
We don't live in North Korea or Saudi Arabia, we live in a democratic country or did that one pass you by?