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29-12-2015, 10:51 AM | #76 | |||
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What were the benefits of Imperialism for the blacks in colonial times?
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29-12-2015, 10:57 AM | #77 | |||
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All these students have done is nod to that and the establishment have closed ranks, that is sinister.
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29-12-2015, 11:04 AM | #78 | |||
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שטח זה להשכרה
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The students demanded the statue is removed and quite rightly they have been told no. Last edited by Livia; 29-12-2015 at 11:05 AM. |
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29-12-2015, 11:15 AM | #79 | |||
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I posed a question, it wasn't suggesting anyone had suggested anything. They called into question his legitimacy is all.
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29-12-2015, 11:43 AM | #80 | |||
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I don't think each new generation should remove a structure from the past just becsuse it doesn't fully represent modern values. They add to our culture and make our streets a little more diverse. Loads of people had probably never heard of Rhodes before this campaign was launched so why should we remove the statue to prevent future generations from learning? Take this opportunity to put an information board nearby explaining all about him so that people can make up their own minds about who he was. They say that if we don't learn from the mistakes of our past then we are doomed to repeat it so I don't see the point in removing such an easily accessible piece of history like a statue.
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29-12-2015, 11:45 AM | #81 | |||
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Great post, Richard.
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29-12-2015, 11:55 AM | #82 | |||
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These acts comprised of organising terrorist bombing campaigns which injured and killed innocent civilians - including women and children - in public places such as railway stations, shopping centres, Magistrate’s Courts, and cinemas. I know this may not weigh as heavily in your view as the deeds of that nasty imperialist Rhodes, but if these students protests ARE truly based on the injustice and oppression of South African people, then surely Mandela should be high on their 'Statue Removal' hit list? Finally - it is over 20 years since the abhorrent regime of Apartheid ended in South Africa, so I would be interested in anyone posting a factual account of just how much that country has progressed and evolved, and how life for ORDINARY South Africans has improved since that day. How are the ANC doing?
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29-12-2015, 11:57 AM | #83 | |||
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29-12-2015, 01:16 PM | #84 | |||
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29-12-2015, 01:25 PM | #85 | |||
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That said it has been suggested that without Rhodes there would have been no apartheid, therefore ANC would never have come to be.
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29-12-2015, 01:51 PM | #86 | |||
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Yes I'm aware of the existence of books but I believe the number of people who seek out and read a history book on a specialist topic like this is probably small in comparison to the number of people who would visit a city like Oxford on a day out and stop to spend a minute reading the information board next to a statue. It's a little bit of extra knowledge for people who otherwise would never have heard about him, I don't think that's a bad thing.
Last edited by RichardG; 29-12-2015 at 02:07 PM. |
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29-12-2015, 02:40 PM | #87 | |||
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No, can't see Oxford going for that Richard
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29-12-2015, 02:52 PM | #88 | |||
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So when Iraq was liberated, should they have kept all those statues of Saddam Hussain instead of destroying them?
Was that not "re-writing history" ?
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29-12-2015, 03:01 PM | #89 | |||
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Do not be Silly Although USA Carpet bombed them. It was the Iraqi Public that Removed his statues. Also Sticks are you aware that a Isis Destroyed statue is being built in London near Nelson. The 3-D molded frame from the original photo before Evil Isis blew it up.(Ref ITV1 London News) Rhodes is Staying at that College Last edited by arista; 29-12-2015 at 03:04 PM. |
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29-12-2015, 03:23 PM | #90 | |||
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The statues of Saddam Hussein were erected by himself or at his behest as a dictator and as Arista quite rightly says, it was the Iraqi people themselves who tore down these statues once liberated from the tyrants grip. Oxford University erected the statue of Rhodes in recognition of the hundreds of millions of pounds by which they benefitted from the Foundation he created in his will to provide free education to underprivileged students from America, Germany AND the colonies. They did not erect the statue in any kind of misplaced veneration that Rhodes was an imperialist. It is NOT the people of Britain who wish to tear down Rhodes statue, it is a very small minority of hypocritical political agitators, the leader of which - cheeky arrogant bastard that he is - is studying at Oxford on the very free scholarship afforded to him by Rhodes will. This IS NOT Palmyra and ISIS are not in control of the UK - yet.
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30-12-2015, 12:24 AM | #91 | |||
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I'm a person of Britain... I say they are right to suggest that he isn't what Oxford should be proud of appearing as representative of their colleges.
He has the right to say how he feels.
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30-12-2015, 03:23 AM | #92 | |||
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I agree Thats why Ch4HD News Jon Snow and other days Paxman will be the best you can find. That Young Black Student sat there right next to a Mature Black Lady and gave his Mantra and Lost. Feel The Force |
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30-12-2015, 06:12 AM | #93 | |||
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I do not need to begin a new thread in which to 'question Mandela's ethics', this is Serious Debates and Mandela is highly relevant to this topic. Up to now, despite this forum being called Serious Debates, your posts have not countered any of the arguments against this agitator - Rhodes will, Mandela, Shaka Zuklu etc - only ignored them because you have no legitimate counters, and just as one glance at any newspaper will confirm that your subversive black student has lost his argument in the real world, then likewise, even the most cursory of glances through this thread will confirm that you too have lost your argument in support of him on here. A victory then for common sense and democracy.
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30-12-2015, 07:01 AM | #94 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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..well it just doesn't make for any logic to me, that so much money would be spent on tearing a piece of stone down, which changes nothing about the past..rather than be used to build something that would make a difference to a present and a future..whatever it's source, that scholarship funding still did the same thing for some and gave them something that they wouldn't have had otherwise...something good, something positive..maybe it's just the way I see things but if someone provided sanitation/clean water etc for a village and food and clothing and education etc...something they didn't have at all and that person's money had come from 'not great things' and they weren't great people etc...would it make any difference to the people in that village and what it brought to them..when people donate to charities etc, do we know how those donations came about and does it make any difference to those whose lives are changed for the better....'bad money' can still do good and positive things and surely it did ...
..anyways, I read that it was being considered and hadn't been refused outright so we'll see... Last edited by Ammi; 30-12-2015 at 07:02 AM. |
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30-12-2015, 08:13 AM | #95 | |||
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30-12-2015, 12:19 PM | #96 | |||
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My feeling on the inclusion of Mandela was that without Rhodes and his laws and segregation there would have been no Apartheid and therefore no ANC, therefor it is hard to envisage how one would impact without the others prior influence. This is serious debates and news, this being news item I commented with my opinion, I don't have to feel I need to compete to share my view. He had his say, good for him, whether you or I or the media agree he is entitled to state how he feels.
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30-12-2015, 12:38 PM | #97 | |||
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This man exploited both people and resources, this is what is being considered, does the end justify the means? If there is an expense to an ethical dilemma then that will have to be addressed if the situation is resolved to remove the image.
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30-12-2015, 12:57 PM | #98 | |||
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Shhiiiieet 2 yrs l8ta
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Remove it, it is a celebration of evil.
"I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. " sigh...white people.
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30-12-2015, 06:29 PM | #99 | |||
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Yes, he has the right to say how he feels, and I have the right to say that he is a subversive, cheeky bastard of an ingrate. Quite obviously, the powers that be at Oxford agree with me.
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30-12-2015, 06:30 PM | #100 | |||
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Don't you mean 'SOME' white people Cee Cee?
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