[Alf]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Is that a dig at me? :/ I knew what you meant, I never said otherwise

Would I ever have a dig at fine classy lady as yourself?

I'm a gentlemen.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by wannashag

Would I ever have a dig at fine classy lady as yourself?

I'm a gentlemen.

I hope not I wasn't correcting you, I didn't even notice you'd typed "and" instead of "n" until after you pointed it out

[Ammi]

..it's the 'neutral'/makes no difference roles really, because it's always been said by actors/actresses that just being nominated for an Oscar leads to more offers of roles etc and much better ones, even if they didn't win..I guess that an example could be Eddie Redmayne..(I just thought of him because I was having a conversation with Liv about The Danish Girl just now..)...anyway his character, Stephen Hawking couldn't be more different to his character in The Danish Girl, that happens with white actors doesn't it...the diversity of their roles..?...and being nominated for Oscars obviously help a lot for them individually ...but with black actors..?...do they get the same diversity of 'neutral roles...or so they have to wait for something that only a black actor/actress could do because of the character/like Nelson Mandela which was mentioned...?...someone who has to be black/no question....

[the truth]

I detest eddie redmayne as an actor, can we replace his dreadful ham acting with a black man with a large member

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by the truth

I detest eddie redmayne as an actor, can we replace his dreadful ham acting with a black man with a large member

..that wouldn't have worked with Stephen Hawking though.....he's obviously quite a fragile looking person and Eddie does have that fragile look...also in The Danish Girl, it would have to have been a character of slight build and that character was also a real person and white/not a fictional character....I don't know how his acting in the Danish Girl will stand up against others because I haven't seen other Oscar nominated movies yet...and it's obviously only going to be my opinion when I do...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's the 'neutral'/makes no difference roles really, because it's always been said by actors/actresses that just being nominated for an Oscar leads to more offers of roles etc and much better ones, even if they didn't win..I guess that an example could be Eddie Redmayne..(I just thought of him because I was having a conversation with Liv about The Danish Girl just now..)...anyway his character, Stephen Hawking couldn't be more different to his character in The Danish Girl, that happens with white actors doesn't it...the diversity of their roles..?...and being nominated for Oscars obviously help a lot for them individually ...but with black actors..?...do they get the same diversity of 'neutral roles...or so they have to wait for something that only a black actor/actress could do because of the character/like Nelson Mandela which was mentioned...?...someone who has to be black/no question....

Maybe they should have had a black Stephen Hawking?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Maybe they should have had a black Stephen Hawking?

He's an actual person though like Nelson Mandela

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

why would she? sounds to me like she just wasn't bothered whether Hermoine was played by a black or a white actress?

The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Is he Scottish or Irish or English in the books?

We're talking race here, not nationality.

Originally Posted by GiRTh

If Idris get the role then he would be one of the best actors to have ever played the part. Should we rule him out just because he doesn't fit into the characters ethnicity even though he's a superior actor?

Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).



We're talking race here, not nationality.




Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

Why is race so much more of an issue than nationality is? You're either sticking rigidly to his description or you're not :/


Re Hermoine: again what's the big deal? Characters when transferred to film are often very different from their description in the book, like the Divergent series, one of the characters is described as being 5'8" in the book, the actress who played her was 5'2", why is race a much bigger issue to height or nationality when it's not really important to the story?

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Livia

The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).



We're talking race here, not nationality.




Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

Outside of the movies... why would you assume that Hermione is white?? Why should a writer have to portray any character with a specific skin colour?? That really reduces the chances of people all over the world finding relating qualities to that character.
And I think the real question here is, why would it be a bad thing to thing of her as having a different race... The colour of a person should not be such a divisive issue... and people who do get upset over it, you have to question why it is that they see skin colour as a negative, or why they see skin colour at all.

And again, why would bond have to be white to be bond?? I really am at a loss to understand your logic here.

[bots]

i vote for the Krankies women, made up as a Chinese woman to play the next Bond or Dr. Who

[the truth]

im still in shock that the snobs in the movie business let a scot a Welshman, an aussie and an Irishman play bond

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

So the reference to her getting a suntan, and her face flushing red... they just mean nothing now.

I recall also that JK Rowling retained the right of having a say in casting when she sold the film rights and was directly involved in casting Harry, Ron and Hermoine
. As there are other black characters in the book, I'm surprised that she didn't ensure Hermoine was played by a black actress.

The whole point of it is that Hermione being white isn't an intrinsic part of her character. There are references in the books to her being white but they never established her race as an important part of her character meaning that, appearance wise, any race could play her as long as they could match the specified traits of her appearance (Bushy hair and such).

When it comes to James Bond, the films have rarely done 1:1 adaptations of the books, most of the older films borrowed the name and plot points of books but it's only really Casino Royale that stuck really close to the source material. At this point it's fair to say that the James Bond of the books and the James Bond on screen are two different entities. The James Bond of the films is an amalgam rather than one consistent character, the interpretation of the character changes with the actor and the film version being white isn't important at all to the character. James Bond needs to be a man and he needs some sort of UK accent, those are really the only two important elements when it comes to the basics of the character's appearance.

If they ever do a reboot where they stick to the books more religiously, a consistent depiction Bond's race, appearance and personality would probably be important but when it comes to the films it's up to interpretation.

[Johnnyuk123]

What next??? they will be demanding the next James Bond must be a chinese midget.

[Johnnyuk123]

So the next time they make another mohammed ali film i expect Tom Hardy to get that role because that would be the right thing to do. It works both ways.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

In the Potter books, Hermoine came back from France with a suntan. Hardly race neutral.

I meant the character itself is race neutral. It makes no actual difference to the character, book, story, movie etc if she were black, white, mixed or green.

Whereas, changing the skin colour of a character whose race is relevant would be changing things.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

So the reference to her getting a suntan, and her face flushing red... they just mean nothing now.

I recall also that JK Rowling retained the right of having a say in casting when she sold the film rights and was directly involved in casting Harry, Ron and Hermoine
. As there are other black characters in the book, I'm surprised that she didn't ensure Hermoine was played by a black actress.

I think that's kind of the point.

She doesn't need to "ensure" she was played by either colour. It was open for any actors. As long as they were English which was relevant.

Black people flush red too? As do mixed race.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

No he is not race-neutral. He is white in the books. But what's more, a black man could not integrate in the places that James Bond did. A black Bond would be a terrible spy. What's more, Bond is an established character.

How about we have a white Luthur next time?

Now this would be a relevant and kosher argument for being specific about the skin colour of an actor.

In Hermione's case, there is no such specifics. It makes no odds to the character/story what colour she is.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

The books have been out for twenty years or so and read by millions and millions of people who've had a picture of Hermione in their heads. The films came out... Hermione was white. Had she been black originally, had Rowling made it clear she was black, no one would have a problem with it. But you can't suddenly change a white character to a black character for no reason at all. And the most annoying thing is, if someone has a problem with a white character being changed to a black character overnight, they're made out of be some kind of racist. (Not by you, Niamh... I'm speaking generally).

The theatre has colour blind casting literally ALL the time.

The same character is often played by both white and black actors sharing the role on a tour etc.

It's a different art form to a movie. Just as the movies for HP were largely different to the books. Different mediums.

I think the point Rowling made was that it didn't need to be made "clear" whether she was black and white anyway because it really doesn't matter.

I don't think the "pictures in their heads" whilst reading the books is at all relevant. 90% of the Harry Potter books I imagined whilst reading them didn't match up to what the film visualised. They're different mediums.

There are hundreds of various book covers that depict Harry Potter as a vastly different looking character, all of which look nothing like Daniel Radcliffe, or the guy about to play him in the theatre show. I don't think skin colour is any different to that to be honest.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

If he was a good enough actor and the part was well written I would have no problem with it.

So are you saying Idris isn't Bond simply due to his ethnicity? The quality of his acting doesn't matter, his experience doesn't matter, he's wrong due simply to his ethnicity? Even though all the novels have been adapted and the films being produced are brand new stories, we still cant veer far from the novels description of Bond? I hope the Broccoli family say 'stuff that' and give the job to the best actor available.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's the 'neutral'/makes no difference roles really, because it's always been said by actors/actresses that just being nominated for an Oscar leads to more offers of roles etc and much better ones, even if they didn't win..I guess that an example could be Eddie Redmayne..(I just thought of him because I was having a conversation with Liv about The Danish Girl just now..)...anyway his character, Stephen Hawking couldn't be more different to his character in The Danish Girl, that happens with white actors doesn't it...the diversity of their roles..?...and being nominated for Oscars obviously help a lot for them individually ...but with black actors..?...do they get the same diversity of 'neutral roles...or so they have to wait for something that only a black actor/actress could do because of the character/like Nelson Mandela which was mentioned...?...someone who has to be black/no question....

I think that's spot on. Most films with black leads tends to be when the role NEEDS a black lead because of the subject matter of the movie or it being based on real people.

But the pure fiction where they could write about anyone tends to cast white actors.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I think that's spot on. Most films with black leads tends to be when the role NEEDS a black lead because of the subject matter of the movie or it being based on real people.

But the pure fiction where they could write about anyone tends to cast white actors.

Exactly

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes we should.

I love Idris... I met him on Monday, he was charming. But he isn't Bond. How would you feel about a white actor playing Shaft?

Did you tell him he was unsuitable to play Bond I would have loved to hear his response?

[Johnnyuk123]

The next movie version of snow white will have seven seven foot dwarfs.

[Kizzy]

What else happens in Bond films other than fight and love scenes and some bloke stalking around looking all suave drinking martinis..What's so 'white' about that?