[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I didn't pretend to know every person?

Hence why I began my post with "In my experience" and mentioned the people I grew up around.

Shall I draw a diagram?

Yes if you wouldn't mind.
With your reference to council estates we appear to have made a leap from the geographical to the sociological associations of religious belief.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes if you wouldn't mind.
With your reference to council estates we appear to have made a leap from the geographical to the sociological associations of religious belief.

I was making comment on LT's introduction to the thread about the possible correlation between intelligence/education and beliefs.

I wasn't making any conclusions but adding my own experience/thoughts into the discussion which seemed to be the opposite of a thought LT had.

A "conversation" I think some call it.

[user104658]

This thread has it all. Now socioeconomic pride is coming into it

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I was making comment on LT's introduction to the thread about the possible correlation between intelligence/education and beliefs.

I wasn't making any conclusions but adding my own experience/thoughts into the discussion which seemed to be the opposite of a thought LT had.

A "conversation" I think some call it.

Others might call it a 'presumption'.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Others might call it a 'presumption'.

So the comment I made about people I knew/know is a presumption?

No love.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So the comment I made about people I knew/know is a presumption?

No love.

If I were to have a bad experience in Birmingham say, one or two people were rude to me for example, I wouldn't then say Birmingham has an issue with rudeness.
This is a similar scenario to your council estate reference, do you understand?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If I were to have a bad experience in Birmingham say, one or two people were rude to me for example, I wouldn't then say Birmingham has an issue with rudeness.
This is a similar scenario to your council estate reference, do you understand?

Except I haven't made a judgement about "council estates".

Do you understand?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Except I haven't made a judgement about "council estates".

Do you understand?

No you didn't make a judgement just a generalisation, there's a difference, I'm just highlighting that.
It does appear you're attempting to correlate socio-economic deprivation to non belief, are you or not?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well given I was talking about people I knew and my experience showing the opposite of a point LT made I would've thought it was obvious?

I don't recall pretending to know every person on every council estate?

I was referring to my experience of people with low or even no education level and their attitudes to religion. I can only speak of my own experience. As I said, it's an interesting correlation to think about.

You DO make a good point Marsh,thinking about it,I know a few rough diamonds and none of them are religious in any way,they are ferrel ,uncaring and hostile.

[rubymoo]

Wow 19 pages in and i'm ready to make my comment

I'm not highly educated, i'm rubbish at trying to get my point across via a forum discussion but i shall give it a go.....

I believe there is something out there......something inside me tells me it's true, i feel it in my gut, my heart and my head.

I wasn't brought up in a religious household, far from it, i haven't had parents influence me with religion either way, yet i look up at the stars with a knowing and a longing to be back there.

I believe in angels, our guardian spirits, and spirit guides, i've never seen them but i sense them, and i communicate with them every single day, i don't go to church and i've never been christened, i've found my own way and my own set of beliefs, religion and beliefs are personal to each and every one of us, that's what makes us unique.

[Kizzy]

What is a 'rough diamond'... I thought it was someone who was essentially good?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

You DO make a good point Marsh,thinking about it,I know a few rough diamonds and none of them are religious in any way,they are ferrel ,uncaring and hostile.

Oh my.

Well, if faith has the power to make us all as serene, caring and humble as THIS post suggests, then I guess we should all be believers.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What is a 'rough diamond'... I thought it was someone who was essentially good?

Yes a "rough diamond" describes a generally good-hearted person from a rough or difficult background (hard edged bt a heart of gold, that sort of thing).

I think that Kazanne has;

1) Misunderstood the term, and

2) Appears to be saying that everyone from a working/underclass background is essentially an animal.

So, being a Tory, basically.

Spoiler:

And also can't spell feral

Originally Posted by Kazanne

they are ferrel

[Kizzy]

I' m ferrel then, SAVE THE NATIONAL ELF!!!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No you didn't make a judgement just a generalisation, there's a difference, I'm just highlighting that.
It does appear you're attempting to correlate socio-economic deprivation to non belief, are you or not?

No. I was making a counter point to LT's comment about lower-education/intelligence possibly having a higher number of believers. I was highlighting personal experience of that being the opposite. As I said, it's an interesting thing to think about. Therefore adding to a discussion.

But by all means, take up another two pages reading into things that aren't there and being pedantic for the sake of it.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes a "rough diamond" describes a generally good-hearted person from a rough or difficult background (hard edged bt a heart of gold, that sort of thing).

I think that Kazanne has;

1) Misunderstood the term, and

2) Appears to be saying that everyone from a working/underclass background is essentially an animal.

So, being a Tory, basically.

Spoiler:

And also can't spell feral

Is there any point posting an opinion here? there are many good hearted people who would think nothing of whipping the wheels off a strangers car to sell ,shoplifting etc and helping their 'mates' out ,I said I know a FEW not many ,no one mentioned animals did they,but being as you know me better than I do,you put your own spin on it eh?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes a "rough diamond" describes a generally good-hearted person from a rough or difficult background (hard edged bt a heart of gold, that sort of thing).

I think that Kazanne has;

1) Misunderstood the term, and

2) Appears to be saying that everyone from a working/underclass background is essentially an animal.

So, being a Tory, basically.

Spoiler:

And also can't spell feral

Kazanne mentioned "a few" people she has known.

Nowhere in her post has she suggested everyone from a particular background is anything.

And people say that the believers read into something that's not there.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No. I was making a counter point to LT's comment about lower-education/intelligence possibly having a higher number of believers. I was highlighting personal experience of that being the opposite. As I said, it's an interesting thing to think about. Therefore adding to a discussion.

But by all means, take up another two pages reading into things that aren't there and being pedantic for the sake of it.

I asked you if you were making reference to all council estates and you've gone all around the (council) houses to avoid giving me a direct answer.
I'll take it as a no as you've found it impossible to say.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I asked you if you were making reference to all council estates and you've gone all around the (council) houses to avoid giving me a direct answer.
I'll take it as a no as you've found it impossible to say.

Impossible to say?

No. I've said it several times. You know full well what I was saying but for some reason, probably boredom, love taking any thread off topic with these pedantic mumblings.

Here they are again for you...

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I haven't made any generalisations?

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well given I was talking about people I knew and my experience showing the opposite of a point LT made I would've thought it was obvious?

I don't recall pretending to know every person on every council estate?

I was referring to my experience of people with low or even no education level and their attitudes to religion. I can only speak of my own experience. As I said, it's an interesting correlation to think about.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I didn't pretend to know every person?

Hence why I began my post with "In my experience" and mentioned the people I grew up around.

Shall I draw a diagram?

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I was making comment on LT's introduction to the thread about the possible correlation between intelligence/education and beliefs.

I wasn't making any conclusions but adding my own experience/thoughts into the discussion which seemed to be the opposite of a thought LT had.

A "conversation" I think some call it.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Except I haven't made a judgement about "council estates".

Do you understand?

After that you claim to still think I was making a claim that "All council estates are [insert whatever here]"?

As opposed to me adding a point to a topic LT raised with an experience from the opposite view. No conclusions, no generalisations, merely adding something to the discussion.

Troll someone else Kizzy.

[Northern Monkey]

So then.....

Where is heaven?

It's definately not in the clouds.Or just above them.So it has to be in space somewhere.Is it another planet?
Or is it outside the universe/s.
If the universe is infinite or if there are an infinite number of universes then it has to be in it/one of them.Maybe it's in the centre of a galaxy or in a black hole.

Where is it?

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So then.....

Where is heaven?

It's definately not in the clouds.Or just above them.So it has to be in space somewhere.Is it another planet?
Or is it outside the universe/s.
If the universe is infinite or if there are an infinite number of universes then it has to be in it/one of them.Maybe it's in the centre of a galaxy or in a black hole.

Where is it?

I truly believe both heaven and hell are here in earth.
Some of us will experience both in our lifetimes.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I truly believe both heaven and hell are here in earth.
Some of us will experience both in our lifetimes.

Ah yes very nice.But what about when we die and go to heaven?Where is it?Is it in another universe?Or ours? Was more my question.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Is there any point posting an opinion here? there are many good hearted people who would think nothing of whipping the wheels off a strangers car to sell ,shoplifting etc and helping their 'mates' out ,I said I know a FEW not many ,no one mentioned animals did they,but being as you know me better than I do,you put your own spin on it eh?

Of course there is Kaz, and I for one will take an opinion based on experience over some statistics someone reads somewhere any day of the week.
We all know how statistics are massaged

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So then.....

Where is heaven?

It's definately not in the clouds.Or just above them.So it has to be in space somewhere.Is it another planet?
Or is it outside the universe/s.
If the universe is infinite or if there are an infinite number of universes then it has to be in it/one of them.Maybe it's in the centre of a galaxy or in a black hole.

Where is it?

Nobody knows......is there any part of you that has an inkling of where it could be? For me it's in the stars, i had an experience that led me to believe this, but i do believe there are numerous places where there are different heavens.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

Nobody knows......is there any part of you that has an inkling of where it could be? For me it's in the stars, i had an experience that led me to believe this, but i do believe there are numerous places where there are different heavens.

So is there multiple heavens in our universe?Or a heaven in each universe assuming there are more than one?So you are saying it's essentially part of a galaxy?A place in a galaxy where souls go?