[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There is no funding for staffing and yet fines for not having adequate staffing levels, therefore agency is relied on. How is this a BMA issue? It's down to trusts.

Yup my mother goes mental about this. A bunch of her friends were laid off...and now their jobs are filled with agency workers on double the wage that her friends were on? As the hours need to be filled still...what sense does this make?

Granted she doesn't work in a hospital...she works ina carehome for people with Alzheimers, but I imagine its the same.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Wow...

Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt held a drinks and canapés evening despite doctors who had planned to attend being told it was cancelled.

Those hoping to attend the event on Friday at a hotel in Fareham, Hampshire, were told the event had been cancelled.
Some junior doctors and their supporters had said it may be worthwhile to buy tickets to engage Mr Hunt in a debate about his controversial new employment contract.

Doctors who had paid £15 for the event later found out it had quietly been moved to another location, with those in attendance being checked to ensure they hadn't brought any medics with them.

Dr Kathryn Carey-Jones wrote on Facebook: “ I could have accepted being told I am not allowed to attend given recent events, but I was lied to, to keep me away ...
"This is dishonesty at its best and would not be accepted from a doctor to a politician. If this is the way the local Conservatives treat their local doctors, what can we expect from the rest? Imagine if we lied to the public like this ...”

GP Emma Nash told Portsmouth News a friend she was going with, a Conservative party member, was refused access to the venue until she convinced the organisers there were no doctors with her.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6873546.html

This idiot is a MAJOR embarrassment to the Tories, and it is time he was given the boot.

He has NO tact. NO diplomacy, and even less guile.

His arrogant, 'bulldozing' tactics are becoming totally unpalatable and ever more despotic.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Never ever had an issue with a nurse bar a very slight problem with one who tried to tell me that getting IV morphine was exactly the same (both pain relief and time to kick in) as taking 2 30mg CODEINE!!! Had never heard such tosh in my life. It did turn out that one of the other nurses was off and my nurse was trying to cut her own workload (didn't want to be faffing about with IV stuff, although I already had a line in...) but come on. I am not ****ing stupid. Just be honest with me

Strewth, the thick beggar.
I have 2x30mg codeine 4 times a day and they don't have the kick that morphine does...oh if only

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by the truth

That's silliest post you ever written. youre trying to say the fact youre 16% more likely to die when admitted on a sunday than on a Wednesday has nothing to do with the fact there is skeleton staff on a sunday compared to Wednesday? youre in denial , youre fudging and hiding from the truth and reality and frankly youre lying to youself. no doubt if you had a close family member who had died on a sunday through not being able to get the full and proper medical attention you get in the midweek you would think very very differently.

Oh for goodness sake! I said there is zero evidence that more deaths occur at weekends due to junior doctor staffing levels. Are you suggesting that most junior doctors could make all the difference to a patient living or dying? I beg to differ, especially with those fresh out of med school and are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This idiot is a MAJOR embarrassment to the Tories, and it is time he was given the boot.

He has NO tact. NO diplomacy, and even less guile.

His arrogant, 'bulldozing' tactics are becoming totally unpalatable and ever more despotic.

if only you'd show such anger at the thousands of innocent people die from neglect on weekends due toi the current system of weekend skeleton staffing

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Strewth, the thick beggar.
I have 2x30mg codeine 4 times a day and they don't have the kick that morphine does...oh if only

It was just ridiculous, I had been on IV morphine for 4 days by that point too, and it has in my medical records that my tolerance to codeine is ridiculous and it takes (unsafe) 300mg doses for it to even have an effect on my normal rib pain, let alone pre-op pain

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

if only you'd show such anger at the thousands of innocent people die from neglect on weekends due toi the current system of weekend skeleton staffing

I am referring to the man's personality, attitude, and conduct, not his policies - I have no comment to make on that at this time because I have not yet finished researching, or contemplating what I have researched.

I simply have not made up my mind on this, but I HAVE decided that Hunt is a brusque, arrogant bastard who has a 'Let Them Eat Cake' superior attitude.

He is BAD for the Tories AND for those who are on the 'sharp end' of his ignorance, arrogance, and abruptness.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am referring to the man's personality, attitude, and conduct, not his policies - I have no comment to make on that at this time because I have not yet finished researching, or contemplating what I have researched.

I simply have not made up my mind on this, but I HAVE decided that Hunt is a brusque, arrogant bastard who has a 'Let Them Eat Cake' superior attitude.

He is BAD for the Tories AND for those who are on the 'sharp end' of his ignorance, arrogance, and abruptness.

the labour fans who walk on by as 1000s die from neglect on weekends are infinitely more arrogant that hunt youre anger is 100% in the wrong place

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I have maintained on here my view from joining in 2010, that the NHS should not be a political football, no single party has 100% the right policies for it.
I have always said the NHS should be out of party politics and its running decided on a consensual policy to build up and support not keep bringing it down by constant unnecessary change.
I still say that is the better way for the NHS.

I agree with this Joey. There are easily 100 examples from each side supporting individual parties agendas. The NHS is a huge organisation, so this will always be the case. I also feel that labour and the conservatives take pleasure out of pointing faults out and using the NHS for their own political point scoring

Unfortunately, as the NHS budget is so huge, it will always form the backbone of a party's political agenda, but if it were ever possible, I would remove it from both their incompetent hands

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by the truth

the labour fans who walk on by as 1000s die from neglect on weekends are infinitely more arrogant that hunt youre anger is 100% in the wrong place

This is not about whether you're left or right wing. Many Conservative and Labour supporters including Conservative and Labour politicians do not agree with everything their party is doing. What your saying here is, if you support the Tories, you must support what Hunt is doing

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I agree with this Joey. There are easily 100 examples from each side supporting individual parties agendas. The NHS is a huge organisation, so this will always be the case. I also feel that labour and the conservatives take pleasure out of pointing faults out and using the NHS for their own political point scoring

Unfortunately, as the NHS budget is so huge, it will always form the backbone of a party's political agenda, but if it were ever possible, I would remove it from both their incompetent hands

And I agree with you and Joey. The NHS should not be a 'political football'.

[DemolitionRed]

Looks like we are all being conned.

If you want to see who is really to blame for our hospital shambles, you should read this http://koshh.org/the-connection-betw...ver-of-the-nhs

Junior doctors’ loss of income and increased hours performing routine work in previously defined unsocial hours will increase profitability for the new players who will be providing healthcare by sweating the assets.
The prospect of a 30% reduction in pay through restriction of unsocial hours payment and increased working week has been the prompt for protest and a potential spark for a brain drain with thousands preparing documentation to emigrate.

Leaving the NHS for pastures new is an entirely justified response but will do nothing to defend the NHS for the relatives and friends left behind who may need to rely on it for care. Those that leave now in the hope of coming back later when the dust has settled may find that the NHS has dwindled to a threadbare remnant in their absence, and the country will be a worse place for it. We are collectively faced with one of the greatest political betrayal of the public interest in destroying the best healthcare system in the industrialised world and replacing with a model resembling the worst.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Looks like we are all being conned.

If you want to see who is really to blame for our hospital shambles, you should read this http://koshh.org/the-connection-betw...ver-of-the-nhs

Junior doctors’ loss of income and increased hours performing routine work in previously defined unsocial hours will increase profitability for the new players who will be providing healthcare by sweating the assets.
The prospect of a 30% reduction in pay through restriction of unsocial hours payment and increased working week has been the prompt for protest and a potential spark for a brain drain with thousands preparing documentation to emigrate.

Leaving the NHS for pastures new is an entirely justified response but will do nothing to defend the NHS for the relatives and friends left behind who may need to rely on it for care. Those that leave now in the hope of coming back later when the dust has settled may find that the NHS has dwindled to a threadbare remnant in their absence, and the country will be a worse place for it. We are collectively faced with one of the greatest political betrayal of the public interest in destroying the best healthcare system in the industrialised world and replacing with a model resembling the worst.

Of course and we've been complicit in the destruction, look at the waiting times fiasco, sold as a sure sign of a failing system unable to cope and subsequently affected areas were put out for tender or had funding slashed.
Now waiting times are fine, it's well worth it for a 'quality' service.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...mment-68692891

[DemolitionRed]

I have Hunts co-authored book "Direct Democracy" but its not presently available on Amazon or Waterstones. I have however managed to find some relevant sections here though https://whatwouldvirchowdo.files.wor...odel_party.pdf

Here are a few snippets:

The problem with the NHS is not one of resources. Rather, it is that the system remains a centrally run, state monopoly, designed over half a century ago.
We should fund patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, to purchase health care from the provider of their choice.

Rather than a lack of resources, the reason for the NHS's poor performance lies in its structure. The NHS designed over half a century ago, at a time of rationing and deep poverty. It was, and remains, a child of its time, conceived on the principle that the benefit state should be a monopoly provider.

Our ambitions should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain, so extending to all the choices currently available only to the minority who opt for private provision.


This book is worth buying if you can eventually get hold of it, though don't take much notice of statistics because they come without an ounce of evidence. What is concerning is the lengthy talks about Conservative ideas to privatize state schools Because what is being suggested in this book is exactly what is going on in our new 'academies' in our present times.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I have Hunts co-authored book "Direct Democracy" but its not presently available on Amazon or Waterstones. I have however managed to find some relevant sections here though https://whatwouldvirchowdo.files.wor...odel_party.pdf

Here are a few snippets:

The problem with the NHS is not one of resources. Rather, it is that the system remains a centrally run, state monopoly, designed over half a century ago.
We should fund patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, to purchase health care from the provider of their choice.

Rather than a lack of resources, the reason for the NHS's poor performance lies in its structure. The NHS designed over half a century ago, at a time of rationing and deep poverty. It was, and remains, a child of its time, conceived on the principle that the benefit state should be a monopoly provider.

Our ambitions should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain, so extending to all the choices currently available only to the minority who opt for private provision.


This book is worth buying if you can eventually get hold of it, though don't take much notice of statistics because they come without an ounce of evidence. What is concerning is the lengthy talks about Conservative ideas to privatize state schools Because what is being suggested in this book is exactly what is going on in our new 'academies' in our present times.

Thankyou so much for that DR, so interesting and terrifying at the same time :/
There is too I'd say a drive to deprofessionalise teaching, as it's impossible to do that with health provision the alternative is to get rid.
By 2020 there will be nothing left, nothing.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thankyou so much for that DR, so interesting and terrifying at the same time :/
There is too I'd say a drive to deprofessionalise teaching, as it's impossible to do that with health provision the alternative is to get rid.
By 2020 there will be nothing left, nothing.

They are certainly trying to deprofessionalize a lot of the health care departments Kizzy. My GP now has one doctor on duty at any one time and they tend to be newly qualified GP's; the rest are nurse practitioners.

A friend of mine who has FM had been referred to a pain clinic in Leeds and waited a staggering three months to be seen, became suspicious that the man who was asking her to go through her symptoms whilst he busily typed up her notes on a computer, wasn't a doctor. It turned out he wasn't even a qualified nurse but someone who had been trained to say all the right things. To make a comparison, I used a pain clinic in London a few years ago and I was seen by a doctor and offered a whole load of options (medicine wise). All my friend was offered was a therapy group to talk about her pain.

This is what happens when you have medicine for profit business. Less and less will become available to us and eventually we will be expected, just like our American friends, to have insurance cover or get the barest minimum.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

They are certainly trying to deprofessionalize a lot of the health care departments Kizzy. My GP now has one doctor on duty at any one time and they tend to be newly qualified GP's; the rest are nurse practitioners.

A friend of mine who has FM had been referred to a pain clinic in Leeds and waited a staggering three months to be seen, became suspicious that the man who was asking her to go through her symptoms whilst he busily typed up her notes on a computer, wasn't a doctor. It turned out he wasn't even a qualified nurse but someone who had been trained to say all the right things. To make a comparison, I used a pain clinic in London a few years ago and I was seen by a doctor and offered a whole load of options (medicine wise). All my friend was offered was a therapy group to talk about her pain.

This is what happens when you have medicine for profit business. Less and less will become available to us and eventually we will be expected, just like our American friends, to have insurance cover or get the barest minimum.

Actually you're right my sister is an ANP and she is constantly reminding practice managers that are constantly 'suggesting' things ...Like ANPs doing care home visits, most complex care issues are way out of her competency. Now you would think they would be happy for her to point this out and save embarrassment should it be discovered? Not so.
She is taking her ANP training and going back to the minor injuries unit she left to take a the position in GP practice.
I'm glad your friend found out when she did, it's the norm now to be placed with ANP if you don't specify you require a doctors appointment. Has your friend joined any FM support groups? they are a great place to find out about available treatments.
I am seriously considering getting some health insurance, my son has a congenital heart condition and I'm just not as confident as I'd like to be. He was due a 2yr check last november, I've chased it up but he's still not been sent for!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

the labour fans who walk on by as 1000s die from neglect on weekends are infinitely more arrogant that hunt your anger is 100% in the wrong place

I think yours is too to be fair, truth. It's probably true that neglect happens (and moreso at the weekends) due to understaffing, but the only way to address that is for there to be a massive increase in funding to ensure that hospitals ARE adequately staffed at all times. The Tories are not going to provide that funding. They're going to find more and more excuses to cut it, whilst placing the blame elsewhere.

Properly staffing hospitals requres MORE STAFF and more money to pay them. Not simply shoehorning the current staff into longer hours for the same (or less) pay.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I am seriously considering getting some health insurance, my son has a congenital heart condition and I'm just not as confident as I'd like to be. He was due a 2yr check last november, I've chased it up but he's still not been sent for!

Sad to say we'll be going private as soon as we can afford a good level of cover. I hate the idea of the UK going private like the US and I know that the more people who jump ship, the more likely that is, but when it comes to your family's health what choice is there but to be selfish?

My father-in-law had a heart attack and required a triple bypass 18 months ago... he was under NHS care for the first few weeks after his heart attack before looking into his work contract and realising that he had significant health cover through his work, at which point he immediately switched to private. The difference in the service these days is staggering. The NHS is being deliberately drained of funds and the level of patient care is starting to falter badly.

This is IN NO WAY the fault of the doctors, nurses, or any of the other front-line staff. It is 100% political.

[James]

There is an interview with Jeremy Hunt about the NHS in today's Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ity-revolution

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by James

There is an interview with Jeremy Hunt about the NHS in today's Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ity-revolution

I've posted a link to that article, you're not reading my posts are you James? tsk

[James]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I've posted a link to that article, you're not reading my posts are you James? tsk

Oh right, I went back a page and didn't notice it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sad to say we'll be going private as soon as we can afford a good level of cover. I hate the idea of the UK going private like the US and I know that the more people who jump ship, the more likely that is, but when it comes to your family's health what choice is there but to be selfish?

My father-in-law had a heart attack and required a triple bypass 18 months ago... he was under NHS care for the first few weeks after his heart attack before looking into his work contract and realising that he had significant health cover through his work, at which point he immediately switched to private. The difference in the service these days is staggering. The NHS is being deliberately drained of funds and the level of patient care is starting to falter badly.

This is IN NO WAY the fault of the doctors, nurses, or any of the other front-line staff. It is 100% political.

Agree with all that TS, they kind of have us with complex care needs over a barrel, haven't even looked into costing but what other option is there with the waiting times? I also feel it is 100% funding and not care that is the issue.

[user104658]

It's the same right across the board. We already pay for private Speech Therapy and Occupational Therapy for the youngest. It's not even that the NHS therapists aren't good at their jobs, they're perfectly well qualified, there just aren't anywhere near enough of them for it to be effective. You might get a speech therapist every 7 or 8 weeks or so an Occupational Therapy... even getting an assessment appointment is almost impossible. They are booked solid, forever. They work with her on language stuff at Nursery too, and they're great, but they're not trained speech therapists! So basically, it's go private or get nothing .

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's the same right across the board. We already pay for private Speech Therapy and Occupational Therapy for the youngest. It's not even that the NHS therapists aren't good at their jobs, they're perfectly well qualified, there just aren't anywhere near enough of them for it to be effective. You might get a speech therapist every 7 or 8 weeks or so an Occupational Therapy... even getting an assessment appointment is almost impossible. They are booked solid, forever. They work with her on language stuff at Nursery too, and they're great, but they're not trained speech therapists! So basically, it's go private or get nothing .

Oh don't... gah, the stress I had when my lad was at school? It's a wonder I'm not bald! Be thankful she has a dx, I got the old ADHD tale and offered ritalin every 6 months :/ No foff with them!