[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

And a woman in a very short skirt is a slut.

And someone wearing Muslim garb is a terrorist.

Let's play the stereotype game! It's fun...

A man with a bald head is not necessarily a skinhead

A man with tattoos is not necessarily a skinhead

A man in a whitey tighty top is not necessarily a skinhead

A man with red braces is not necessarily a skinhead

A man in blue jeans is pretty generic

A man wearing blood red boots high-laced over said jeans... might not be a skinhead. Maybe.


...a man wearing ALL OF THE ABOVE is either a skinhead, or is attending an American History X themed halloween party.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I think it's only really offensive if you look at the poster assuming that the white man depicted is meant to represent all white males. I don't think it is though. It's showing one example of the reality that a lot of ethnic minorities face, and why shouldn't that be highlighted? Should it not be highlighted because of the risk of upsetting the white males who aren't represented in the ad?

The whole point of the ad is to get more to people to vote (people who are British but are sometimes made to feel like they aren't), and that's a really difficult thing to do so an ad like this needs to be powerful, and most importantly, not pander to the wants of the white population. It needs to give a message that people of ethnic minorities can relate to, regardless of how that might make white people feel.

I look at the ad and think, neither of those people represent me, this ad isn't meant for me, and so it's kind of meaningless to me. But there will be a great deal of people from ethnic minorities who'll feel a strong connection with it and it might be enough to urge them to vote whereas they might have otherwise not done. Isn't that a good thing?

I just think in cases like this, even if something is perceived as having negative connotations towards white people, we should just put up with it to be honest. White men have it good enough in society to be able to take the occasional hit if the cause is worthwhile.

Good post and I agree with everything you’ve said. I’m voting out and I’m not offended by that poster because I understand its focusing on a certain type of voter that doesn’t include me.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...wearing an astronaut suit would be representative of what someone does for a living though, so not the same thing at all as describing a stereotype...

...anyway, off topic...I have to say that even though my views are different to Liv's...she's not really saying anything different to what many have said in the thread previously but I am noticing that with you TS..you very often only quote her posts as the ones you will choose to 'disagree with'...and in a way, as Liv has just said of..'don't be silly Livia'...'rubbish Livia' and etc, etc..in a very condescending and patronising way...not a way anyway, which would open any debate and communication between you both, so it doesn't seem as though that's actually the purpose....it's starting to feel 'singling out' and it's starting to feel uncomfortable ..(in quite a few threads..)...


..(sorry Liv, but it's something I've noticed and I couldn't not say anything..)...

Really Ammi? Really though? When we can just click the links to previous pages and actually read what happened in this thread?

First communication between me and Livia in this thread:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Because hardcore Brexit skinheads are likely to be the first lined up at the voting booths when it comes to the EU referrendum, whereas older females of ethnic minorities are amoungst the least likely to vote at all - even though the vote greatly affects them. These women are being encouraged to make sure they vote, in order to "counter-balance" what is certain to be a 100% turnout for British nationalist extremists all voting "out".

NOT directed at ANYONE in particular, was then quoted by Livia, responding with;

Originally Posted by Livia

And there was me thinking it was a thoughtless, lazy bit of stereotyping.

First time it got a bit snippy and personal:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Now that's not entirely true either though, is it. His clothing (white shirt, light blue jeans, high boots) is practically "white supremacist skinhead" uniform. All he's missing is the green bomber jacket. Stereotype? Yes, but it's a very specific one and doesn't include "all white men with tattoos and a bald head", nor does it suggest that all men of that description are white supremacists.

Originally Posted by Livia

If you want to judge every book by its cover, then you crack on TS.

Originally Posted by Ammi

not a way anyway, which would open any debate and communication between you both, so it doesn't seem as though that's actually the purpose...

Errrr.... yeah.


She then decided to, unfathomably, go on to point out that *I* started patronising *her*



Take your bias elsewhere Ammi, I don't have time for it and I'm not willing to be accused of something that, in this case at the very least, can be quite clearly demonstrated to be untrue

[Livia]

I don't think she's talking about this thread per se, TS. And I'm grateful. I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see it.

There are many other posters on SD, and yet I know as soon as I post you'll reply with a "don't be silly, Livia" type reply.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't think she's talking about this thread per se, TS. And I'm grateful. I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see it.

There are many other posters on SD, and yet I know as soon as I post you'll reply with a "don't be silly, Livia" type reply.

If you would stop posting such tripe I wouldn't have to .

Most of the people here, I either tend to agree with or at least find their responses to be moderate / reasonable (therefore a bit vanilla), OR... frankly... with nothing of any merit in them more than worth a quick skim read.

Beyond that, I quote and disagree with LT just as much and Kirk (may he rest in peace) significantly more but no one had anything to say about that. However I will stop quoting you. Don't want to be accused of picking on the girls

[DemolitionRed]

I think its interesting that some people can’t work out what this poster is telling us. The level seesaw is the biggest clue because it represents equality…every vote carries equal weight.

The only reason Nigel Farage is so upset by this poster is because its clever enough to bring ethnic minorities out of their houses and vote to remain in. Whilst we all have a right to be offended, one has to admit that this very controversial advert has a real touch of genius.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you would stop posting such tripe I wouldn't have to .

Most of the people here, I either tend to agree with or at least find their responses to be moderate / reasonable (therefore a bit vanilla), OR... frankly... with nothing of any merit in them more than worth a quick skim read.

Beyond that, I quote and disagree with LT just as much and Kirk (may he rest in peace) significantly more but no one had anything to say about that. However I will stop quoting you. Don't want to be accused of picking on the girls

Its called ganging up TS and we don't want any of that

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I think its interesting that some people can’t work out what this poster is telling us. The level seesaw is the biggest clue because it represents equality…every vote carries equal weight.

The only reason Nigel Farage is so upset by this poster is because its clever enough to bring ethnic minorities out of their houses and vote to remain in. Whilst we all have a right to be offended, one has to admit that this very controversial advert has a real touch of genius.

I agree DR - as over-the top and inflamatory as the poster is, if it encourages a higher voter turnout... and especially a higher turnout for under-respresented groups in voting... then a few feathers being ruffled is probably worth it.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "genius", perhaps, but then I'm skeptical about people in general and I don't think the vast majority of people are capable of computing subtleties. I guess you could say that there's a touch of genius in it's simplicity and lack of subtlety? Although apparently it's subtle enough that we're not supposed to notice that the man is a caricature of a neo-nazi, he might just some poor bald lad with his mum's name tattooed on his arm, peacefully showing off his new booties .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Its called ganging up TS and we don't want any of that

One male against several females is still ganging up because we have bigger brains I'm afraid .

...or let's face it... one TS against any number of people ends up being misconstrued as ganging up, because the human brain can't comprehend such overwhelming force from one individual.



Poor Livia . Thank goodness Ammi is around, otherwise I might not have realised and this injustice would just have continued unchecked.

[Ammi]

..I think that the balancing of the seesaw also represents a 'balancing out' that is trying to be achieved..(through voting ..)..because of how the media has often stereotyped and even 'demonised' ethnic communities and ethnic citizens....hmmm, maybe it's not so much about the poster itself but more the discussions that will be had and are being had through it's controversy and interpretations..that those themselves will be more what will spark more votes from ethnic minorities, who may not have intended to vote...

[lostalex]

i think it's a good AD, it shows that muslims can be just as bigoted as skinheads, which is true.

[Kizzy]

I'm more offended that people think that all skinheads are far right, in my experience that's far from the truth and it's those who consider themselves respectable.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm more offended that people think that all skinheads are far right, in my experience that's far from the truth and it's those who consider themselves respectable.

i had a very good friend in high school that was a skinhead, and he was awesome. although he said some racist things, i certainly never saw him abuse any racial minorities. he was a great guy.

that being said he developed a bad alcohol problem and got into a physical fight with a cop and now he's in prison. but he's actually a really sweet guy, i knew him since we were in grade school.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...wearing an astronaut suit would be representative of what someone does for a living though, so not the same thing at all as describing a stereotype...

...anyway, off topic...I have to say that even though my views are different to Liv's...she's not really saying anything different to what many have said in the thread previously but I am noticing that with you TS..you very often only quote her posts as the ones you will choose to 'disagree with'...and in a way, as Liv has just said of..'don't be silly Livia'...'rubbish Livia' and etc, etc..in a very condescending and patronising way...not a way anyway, which would open any debate and communication between you both, so it doesn't seem as though that's actually the purpose....it's starting to feel 'singling out' and it's starting to feel uncomfortable ..(in quite a few threads..)...


..(sorry Liv, but it's something I've noticed and I couldn't not say anything..)...

Sorry Ammi but here I have to interject as you have ( being part of the discussion and all) when nobody on this forum posts in a way that could be considered condecending and/or patronising ( including Livia) we'll all comply, do we have a deal?

[_Tom_]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I think its interesting that some people can’t work out what this poster is telling us. The level seesaw is the biggest clue because it represents equality…every vote carries equal weight.

The only reason Nigel Farage is so upset by this poster is because its clever enough to bring ethnic minorities out of their houses and vote to remain in. Whilst we all have a right to be offended, one has to admit that this very controversial advert has a real touch of genius.

That's assuming that all ethnic minorities want to remain. People voting 'leave' come from all walks of life. More and more black and ethnic minority Brits are backing Brexit.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i had a very good friend in high school that was a skinhead, and he was awesome. although he said some racist things, i certainly never saw him abuse any racial minorities. he was a great guy.

that being said he developed a bad alcohol problem and got into a physical fight with a cop and now he's in prison. but he's actually a really sweet guy, i knew him since we were in grade school.

Exactly it's more a pop at nonconformists/youth/fashion, oh look at him... he looks odd/rough/chavvy/common/hard/poor he must be a racist thug!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Exactly it's more a pop at nonconformists/youth/fashion, oh look at him... he looks odd/rough/chavvy/common/hard/poor he must be a racist thug!

yea, and i was out to him and he never had a problem with me being gay. he was just angry in general and at the system, but he treated all the people he knew really well, black, gay, whatever.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by _Tom_

That's assuming that all ethnic minorities want to remain. People voting 'leave' come from all walks of life. More and more black and ethnic minority Brits are backing Brexit.

Absolutely, especially those who are now citizens of the UK. People also assume that you have to be right wing to vote out. That's simply not the case.

[rubymoo]

Maybe it would be more appropriate, (if the seesaw represents a balance) to have the white man in a suit just as placid as the Indian lady, rather than an angry white man pointing like he's going to take her head off!

Why is the white man in the picture? Britain is a diverse country, why not a muslim man, or a black man, all these people represent Britain, why an angry looking skinhead? This poster is biased and offensive on many levels, and neither the people represent me and i'm voting out, until we get away from the colour of someones skin there will always be racism. Why didn't they use a four way seesaw (i've seen them in playgrounds), and put people of different cultures on that, this would represent Britain.

[rubymoo]

Or maybe use a round-a-bout with different people from different backgrounds facing out?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

Maybe it would be more appropriate, (if the seesaw represents a balance) to have the white man in a suit just as placid as the Indian lady, rather than an angry white man pointing like he's going to take her head off!

Why is the white man in the picture? Britain is a diverse country, why not a muslim man, or a black man, all these people represent Britain, why an angry looking skinhead? This poster is biased and offensive on many levels, and neither the people represent me and i'm voting out, until we get away from the colour of someones skin there will always be racism. Why didn't they use a four way seesaw (i've seen them in playgrounds), and put people of different cultures on that, this would represent Britain.

or why not just make a poster that reminds people to vote and gives the date and pertinent information about voting. like use WORDS. communicate INFORMATION. why do they need to use any kind of giant pictures of people, use bigger words and give them the important information. period.

looks at the famous "keep calm carry on" posters... big letters, good words, communicate.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by lostalex

or why not just make a poster that reminds people to vote and gives the date and pertinent information about voting. like use WORDS. communicate INFORMATION. why do they need to use any kind of giant pictures of people, use bigger words and give them the important information. period.

looks at the famous "keep calm carry on" posters... big letters, good words, communicate.

Exactly! It drives me bonkers with all these ridiculous images, but if they are to use images, then they should be fair and representative of the current situation.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

or why not just make a poster that reminds people to vote and gives the date and pertinent information about voting. like use WORDS. communicate INFORMATION. why do they need to use any kind of giant pictures of people, use bigger words and give them the important information. period.

looks at the famous "keep calm carry on" posters... big letters, good words, communicate.

Yes that would make more sense than some visual metaphor that doesn't say anything yet offends everyone.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Utter nonsense Livia, no one steps out of their front door wearing what the guy in that picture is wearing without it being a deliberate statement. Come on. It's like seeing someone wearing a space suit and saying "Don't be judgemental guys, don't assume he's dressed as an astronaut, he might just be feeling chilly!"

you should attend a scooter rally, that garb is awol for 1000,s of the nicest people you could meet.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you would stop posting such tripe I wouldn't have to .

Most of the people here, I either tend to agree with or at least find their responses to be moderate / reasonable (therefore a bit vanilla), OR... frankly... with nothing of any merit in them more than worth a quick skim read.

Beyond that, I quote and disagree with LT just as much and Kirk (may he rest in peace) significantly more but no one had anything to say about that. However I will stop quoting you. Don't want to be accused of picking on the girls

Quote me, talk to me... but stop talking to me like I'm a fourteen year old with special educational needs. Then everything will be lovely.