[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

My post contradicted nothing. In fact you're incredibly hypocritical since you keep bringing up Jayne's past but you're keeping quiet about the fact that Chelsea is a scam artist that almost drove someone to suicide.

Jayne's past kind of pales in comparison to that, don't you think?

Jayne threatened to expose Chelsea but didn't go through with it, Chelsea spilled all her secrets without a second thought in order to hurt her yet Jayne's supposedly worse? Again, it was Chelsea who brought the Kiss and Tell stuff into the house, not Jayne.

The difference between Andrew and Marco is that they were twats inside and outside of the house. Jayne's one of the nicest people in there.

People didn't need outside reasons to get rid of Marco, the fact that he strung along Laura based on lies, threatened security and generally acted like a spoilt brat was enough for people to hate him.

As for your last sentence, I'll point you back to the top of my post. You think Jayne is the devil for embracing her sexuality yet you're okay with Chelsea being a scammer that almost drove someone to suicide? You're okay with him blatantly bullying Jayne in the house?

Chelsea is a **** inside and outside of that house.

And actually Marco brought his outside behaviour into the house himself, as he talked about his fiancée, the fact that she would be upset by his actions when he originally said it was fine as he had a hall pass, which then became an open relationship which it wasn't. He lied to Laura. He chose to brag about squandering £250,000 of money he had not earned on cocaine, alcohol and prostitutes. He bragged about his shoes costing more than someone else was paid. He behaved like a drunken idiot, invading people's personal space and making them feel uncomfortable. He showed aggression in his words and his actions- in his confrontation with Ryan and his threats to the security guards. His sexual exploits were degrading and embarrassing on national tv, and showed no regard for anyone else, either inside or outside of the house. He was immature and attention seeking the whole time- all too often looking at the cameras and checking they were on him. And his own words and responses showed he accepted no responsibility for any of his behaviour.

This is all stuff that he either demonstrated or chose to talk about inside the house! And as soon as he chooses to mention it inside the house, he is allowing it to be something that viewers will talk about and judge him on.

The difference with Jayne and Chelsea is that they have an issue with each other, a personal dispute between themselves, of which they've revealed a lot less than Marco did about his exploits, and it is having minimal impact on anyone else inside the house.

[hot2go]

Marco was first to be evicted, Natalie will be second and Jayne is gonna be third....all three evictions will make a lot of people happy...they all have one thing in common, they've all been an unwelcome disruption to the other housemates and proved very unpopular with a lot of people....seems like the inevitable order of the way it was meant to be.

I'll be sorry to see Natalie go but I will be voting to get Jayne out.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by hot2go

So you did read what I wrote then ? I'm glad you're keeping up

Hot2go, I enjoy reading so many of your posts, as you can make such interesting points and insightful observations. But, you undermine yourself in other posts, through the way you in which you make them- above in the sarcasm and belittling of another member, which is so unnecessary, and below in the aggressive and bitter tone you are using in regards to other members.

As far as judging housemates on their past or their lives outside of the house, I was always very vocal on here about my defence for Andrew and for Marco, I did not agree with the majority who were hurling abuse their way because of their private lives.

I still disagree with that concept, but with people who used those things as reasons for getting rid of Marco, and are now hypocritically not applying the same moral code of practice, that they preached, to this old slag...the gloves are off.

Now I'll drag up any old dirt on on any of em....if Marco and Andrew were hung out to dry because of their private lives then so too will slags like Jayne and Snides like Sam....watch this space

I don't want you to risk others dismissing your points as just some nasty rant.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"Too feckin true John. That old tart only came in the bleedin' house to cause me grief... An now she's whinging about me givin her some of the old wellie back?

As I was saying to one of my china's as we woz bombing dahn the Old Kent Road in my Ferrari; 'Never start a war my old son unless you're tooled up to win it'.

'An if you piss into the wind mate, you only get your own back'. Or as my old muvver used to say - gawd rest her soul - 'A tart in a jam ain't a jam tart'

Know wot I mean John?"

Excellent!

[Mystic Mock]

I don't get some of TIBB's obsession with timid girls.

Jayne would get my respect more if she actually stood up for herself and was just like "**** you Chelsea" where as at this point I have no respect for her as she's just gonna play the victim all series and have no self respect for herself.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I don't get some of TIBB's obsession with timid girls.

Jayne would get my respect more if she actually stood up for herself and was just like "**** you Chelsea" where as at this point I have no respect for her as she's just gonna play the victim all series and have no self respect for herself.

She has no respect for herself because she didn't react a certain way to someone being vile to her? Talk about victim blaming

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don't want you to risk others dismissing your points as just some nasty rant.

Thanks...I called time on the conversation for the very reason that it was getting too personal...I take issue my with words being edited into something I haven't said and it happens more than it should....but I do usually call time on the conversations...I never said I think it's OK that someone was driven to suicide, i know nothing about that story ....it offended me ....but thanks, what you said is absolutely true and I appreciate your message

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I have read it, you said she brought her 'home wrecking' skills into the house but I don't see her climbing up anyone. Only one person has brought her past into the house and that's Chelsea in an attempt to ostracise her from the other HMs.

If you're referring to her job as a P.I then why are you saddling her with the blame for destroying families and not the actual cheating spouses? Your logic seems a little flawed.

My comment remains true, people hate her for her past outside of the house, not because of who she is or what she's brought to the house.

What has she brought to the house out of interest other than moaning and playing the victim?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

What has she brought to the house out of interest other than moaning and playing the victim?

i'm also questioning that to myself

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

She has no respect for herself because she didn't react a certain way to someone being vile to her? Talk about victim blaming

I don't like people doing a Jale and mope around the house boring the pants off me because "someone isn't being nice to them" I don't know if it's just me but as a fully grown adult I will defend myself if someone is being a jackass to me for no reason, Jayne and any other adult should do the same.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I don't like people doing a Jale and mope around the house boring the pants off me because "someone isn't being nice to them" I don't know if it's just me but as a fully grown adult I will defend myself if someone is being a jackass to me for no reason, Jayne and any other adult should do the same.

She does defend herself though.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

as a fully grown adult

sure jan

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Thanks...I called time on the conversation for the very reason that it was getting too personal...I take issue my with words being edited into something I haven't said and it happens more than it should....but I do usually call time on the conversations...I never said I think it's OK that someone was driven to suicide, i know nothing about that story ....it offended me ....but thanks, what you said is absolutely true and I appreciate your message

No probs. I'm glad you realised that this was an attempt to be supportive, from someone who has felt great respect for many of your posts, rather than feeling it was meant in a negative way.

I've read so many of your comments that I feel have been spot on in summing up a situation, and others that have made me think and reconsider my own views, and you have so much more impact in what you say when you do that. You made some fantastic posts after the one I highlighted, which were so well reasoned and well judged, that they were so much more effective in getting your views across.

I think sometimes things get heated on here, especially when people feel offended, or very strongly about a certain housemate, and that can be when it becomes personal. But to me, that is exactly the time you need to respond with an intelligent rather than an emotional argument. This is probably not your intention at all, but it just comes across sometimes as if you are telling people what to think, or as if you are presenting your views as fact, when this is something you don't have to do when you so clearly have the power to express your views so intelligently and persuasively.

I think you and I both know we will never agree over Marco, and sometimes it's just better to agree to differ. However, that doesn't mean I can't be persuaded by an intelligent and insightful argument on things- I am always open to having my eyes opened to a different way of thinking, and to adjusting or changing my opinion if the argument is presented in an effective way. You can do that, so you don't need to do any negative stuff.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by hot2go

I'm getting bored of what you're saying cause I think it's conveniently only part factual .... And others are prob getting bored of me clogging up the thread with my responses, so this will be my last one to you.

Marco didn't lie about the conditions of his hall pass, he and his girlfriend had diff interpretations of what the pass meant....if he wasn't clear then he was not alone, no one was clear, not even the person who issued the pass.

Marco didn't string Laura along....she did that to him.......everyone was frustrated with her stopping it then going back for more...
She did it over and over again..
When she said, day one, she would def f-ck him, she new he was engaged with a hall pass.
When she had sex with him, day 4, she knew he was engaged with a hall pass.
When the terminology was later phrased in a different way to open relationship she continued to have sex games with him and continued to go back to himfrom more right up till the day he left. He never lead her any where.

He wasn't a generally unpleasant guy, he was a generally annoying guy...huge difference
Nothing unpleasant or spiteful or vindictive or two faced about him in that house at all...ever.

Empty threats on the night Andrew and Ryan entered the house were made by a few people and a few more since ...none of them have been carried out cause mostly they are heat of the moment, knee jerk reactions to feeling threatened. And very very typical of all the previous BB seasons.

Chelsea has done nothing in the house to make me dislike him. Retaliating to Jaynes blackmail attempts do not warrent a reason for me to dislike him, only a reason to agree with him. I pay no attention to anything he or any of the others did before they entered the house...I didn't with Andrew, I didn't with Marco, and I didn't with Jayne until she chose to drag her past into the house with her...I didn't go looking for it, she presented it to me....on a plate.

And finally, for you to say that no one thought Marco should have been thrown out or evicted from the house is so ridiculously untrue it dimishes everything else you've said. By the time Marco was prematurely robbed of his place in the house I can think of only 3 other people on the entire thread who wanted him to stay.

Marco has gone, he can't come back.... now I think the rules that were used against him shoukd be applied to some of the others...starting with Charlie getting the same warning Marco got for harassment .... watching Jayne experience how it feels to be a target herself ....and watching some others experience what it feels like to be isolated just for being different, like Marco and Andy have.

There's a bit of a pattern here isn't there? It always seems to be the woman's fault regardless of the circumstances. Jayne's at fault for the way that Chelsea's acted, Laura apparently led Marco on, his ex is to blame for apparently not being clear about the Hall Pass (seemed clear enough to everyone else) and now you've taken issue with Charlie. Kind of worrying in all honesty.

Marco's ex told him specifically no sex, that much is clear. She said he could pursue a relationship for his gameplan but none of the physical stuff. It's not a matter of misinterpretation it's a matter of Marco only caring about Marco.

Marco was definitely unpleasant, threatening employees for no reason and acting like god's gift because of his dad isn't considered unpleasant to you? I dread to think what you opinion would be if Marco was female.

I like how you keep conveniently ignoring Chelsea's past too. You got to respond to it sometime. Also you have to drop this blackmail stuff, it's laughable, baseless and desperate. Nobody is buying that Jayne is blackmailing Chelsea, she hasn't had anything to do with him since yet you think he is justified to bully her by turning people against her and isolating her in the house. If it was the other way around you'd probably be screaming bloody murder judging by how far you are reaching to blame her for Chelsea's actions.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Garfie

And actually Marco brought his outside behaviour into the house himself, as he talked about his fiancée, the fact that she would be upset by his actions when he originally said it was fine as he had a hall pass, which then became an open relationship which it wasn't. He lied to Laura. He chose to brag about squandering £250,000 of money he had not earned on cocaine, alcohol and prostitutes. He bragged about his shoes costing more than someone else was paid. He behaved like a drunken idiot, invading people's personal space and making them feel uncomfortable. He showed aggression in his words and his actions- in his confrontation with Ryan and his threats to the security guards. His sexual exploits were degrading and embarrassing on national tv, and showed no regard for anyone else, either inside or outside of the house. He was immature and attention seeking the whole time- all too often looking at the cameras and checking they were on him. And his own words and responses showed he accepted no responsibility for any of his behaviour.

This is all stuff that he either demonstrated or chose to talk about inside the house! And as soon as he chooses to mention it inside the house, he is allowing it to be something that viewers will talk about and judge him on.

The difference with Jayne and Chelsea is that they have an issue with each other, a personal dispute between themselves, of which they've revealed a lot less than Marco did about his exploits, and it is having minimal impact on anyone else inside the house.

What a superbly written, and truthful post.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

She does defend herself though.

I don't really see her defend herself like an adult as she does that silly victim voice thing to make the public feel sorry for her.

I bet in the real world where there's no cameras around she would speak like an adult and challenge Chelsea for the way that his treating her.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I don't really see her defend herself like an adult as she does that silly victim voice thing to make the public feel sorry for her.

I bet in the real world where there's no cameras around she would speak like an adult and challenge Chelsea for the way that his treating her.

Well we seem to be watching two different shows then because I've seen her always stand up for herself.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Well we seem to be watching two different shows then because I've seen her always stand up for herself.

That's fair enough.

I just think that I like girls that are less mousey going about it.

[Nancy.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Well we seem to be watching two different shows then because I've seen her always stand up for herself.

I agree.

Jayne can handle Natalie - no problem. I initially thought she was going to be a boring housemate..but she's proven me wrong. I really like her, tbh.

[y.winter]

They don't deserve her presence.
They should all get evicted as a punishment.

[BB247]

Originally Posted by Ross.

It's actually uncomfortable to watch how desperate Chelsea is to turn them all against her

I agree it's not nice.
But she should have kept her mouth shut about whatever went on with Chelsea like she made us believe, because if she kept quite Chelsea wouldn't have turned on her. She 'kiss and told' on him on national TV. I'd have started a hate campaign too.