[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I know where he's coming from when he says this. ISIS kills people. Israel kills people. I suppose you could argue that the other side fired first but Israel doesn't help the situation at all by building settlements. It's like Israel is poking and prodding a snake and then claims being attacked when the snake turns around and gives them a bite. And Muslims are not the only ones who use terrorism. If a soldier does things that terrorize a people, how is this not terrorism? People forget that it was Jewish terrorists (not Muslims) that got Britain to leave the land in the 40s.

I think this labor leader has guts and I hope people listen to him.

I agree but here in the UK we aren't allowed to speak badly of Israel.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I agree but here in the UK we aren't allowed to speak badly of Israel.

I am a supporter of Israel but I agree with you DemRed, it does seem criticism of Israel is not permissible now,all have to tread on eggshells as to what is said.

However the chief Rabbi can slate Labour, a whole party.

Then also it is in order for some to generally call people on the left of politics all sorts of truly horrible and prejudiced names.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am a supporter of Israel but I agree with you DemRed, it does seem criticism of Israel is not permissible now,all have to tread on eggshells as to what is said.

However the chief Rabbi can slate Labour, a whole party.

Then also it is in order for some to generally call people on the left of politics all sorts of truly horrible and prejudiced names.

The way Israel has behaved over many decades has often been disgraceful , brutal, cruel and illegal. Some one could argue they are under constant attack , but they have weaponry 10000 times that of their opponents and have enormous backing from the US. This power has been abused on a massive scale imo

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by the truth

The way Israel has behaved over many decades has often been disgraceful , brutal, cruel and illegal. Some one could argue they are under constant attack , but they have weaponry 10000 times that of their opponents and have enormous backing from the US. This power has been abused on a massive scale imo

So comparing them to isis by the UK leader of the Labour Party is ok?

It's a disgusting comparison by a dead man walking.

Shameful

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So comparing them to isis by the UK leader of the Labour Party is ok?

It's a disgusting comparison by a dead man walking.

Shameful

he didnt compare them, he said we shouldnt tar everyone with the same brush just because of extremists.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

To make a comment like that, on an occasion like that, at a time like this, is at worst inflammatory and at best shows a shocking lack of judgement

He is a political liability and embarrassment.

[Kizzy]

As misquotes go this is a corker, nice try press keep up the rubbish biased work.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

he didnt compare them, he said we shouldnt tar everyone with the same brush just because of extremists.

That is exactly what he was inferring, nothing else,you are spot on.
However like all else,if anyone can find even the smallest of nails to hammer into Corbyn, it will be driven in to its greatest effect.

I really am fed up of this witchhunt and hounding of one man,maybe I would prefer a new Labour leader myself but this really looks a disgrace as to how a major political party is acting now.

Amazing again I say, how he dare not it seems, even say anything about Israel but the Chief Rabbi,who really should keep quiet in my view and stop inflaming things as he has done twice in the last year now,,can virtually write off a whole party.

It is getting ridiculous how almost everyone dare not even say anything now,even when it is not meant offensively such as this comment from Corbyn.

For goodness sake, I have Jewish friends, they were not offended at all by this, in fact they moan at Israel more than most.

[y.winter]

Oh well...

Good luck for Britain. Slowly Europe will understand that 100% PC policy won't get them anywhere with ISIS.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So comparing them to isis by the UK leader of the Labour Party is ok?

It's a disgusting comparison by a dead man walking.

Shameful

How can you twist Corbyn’s words to come out with that conclusion?

Come on LT, you hate the very ground he walks on. You are happy to be influenced by others who demonize him.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is exactly what he was inferring, nothing else,you are spot on.
However like all else,if anyone can find even the smallest of nails to hammer into Corbyn, it will be driven in to its greatest effect.

I really am fed up of this witchhunt and hounding of one man,maybe I would prefer a new Labour leader myself but this really looks a disgrace as to how a major political party is acting now.

Amazing again I say, how he dare not it seems, even say anything about Israel but the Chief Rabbi,who really should keep quiet in my view and stop inflaming things as he has done twice in the last year now,,can virtually write off a whole party.

It is getting ridiculous how almost everyone dare not even say anything now,even when it is not meant offensively such as this comment from Corbyn.

For goodness sake, I have Jewish friends, they were not offended at all by this, in fact they moan at Israel more than most.

[arista]

"For goodness sake, I have Jewish friends, they were not offended at all by this"

How Nice Joey

[letmein]

Corbyn has always been an antisemite who hates his own country.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is exactly what he was inferring, nothing else,you are spot on.
However like all else,if anyone can find even the smallest of nails to hammer into Corbyn, it will be driven in to its greatest effect.

I really am fed up of this witchhunt and hounding of one man,maybe I would prefer a new Labour leader myself but this really looks a disgrace as to how a major political party is acting now.

Amazing again I say, how he dare not it seems, even say anything about Israel but the Chief Rabbi,who really should keep quiet in my view and stop inflaming things as he has done twice in the last year now,,can virtually write off a whole party.

It is getting ridiculous how almost everyone dare not even say anything now,even when it is not meant offensively such as this comment from Corbyn.

For goodness sake, I have Jewish friends, they were not offended at all by this, in fact they moan at Israel more than most.

I LOVE Israel, and I too have Jewish friends, but I'm not Jewish - guess you could call me a 'GOY BOY' - but both my Jewish friends and I, DO find offense in parts of Corbyn's statement.

By implication, Corbyn's phrasing leaves no doubt that he is 'indicting' Israel and Netanyahu's Government of 'something', and also 'condemning' their actions, and though he never elaborates as to just WHAT this 'something' is or just WHY he is indicting Israel and Netanyahu's Government, Corbyn's use of 'self styled Islamic states or 'organisations' as a comparator, coupled with his long established support and empathy for Hamas and other terrorist organisations, renders it perfectly clear that he WAS being slyly antisemitic.

As the the part of your post which I have emboldened, perhaps some sympathy might be forthcoming now for all of us who dared to broach our concerns about 'unfettered and unvetted immigration, and were EVERY TIME - wrongly and unfairly lambasted as xenophobic or racist for our efforts.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

As the the part of your post which I have emboldened, perhaps some sympathy might be forthcoming now for all of us who dared to broach our concerns about 'unfettered and unvetted immigration, and were EVERY TIME - wrongly and unfairly lambasted as xenophobic or racist for our efforts.

You do have a selective memory sometimes Kirk, or at least a tendency to cherry pick. I can't think of any time on here that you've been lambasted as xenophobic PURELY for expressing concerns over immigration. I do, for example, specifically recall calling you xenophobic for claiming that Middle Eastern people are more likely to become terrorists because they are genetically predisposed to aggression, violence and warmongering, with it being "in their DNA" after thousands of years. Little things like that are what have lead to the overall impression. Not immigration concerns.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You do have a selective memory sometimes Kirk, or at least a tendency to cherry pick. I can't think of any time on here that you've been lambasted as xenophobic PURELY for expressing concerns over immigration. I do, for example, specifically recall calling you xenophobic for claiming that Middle Eastern people are more likely to become terrorists because they are genetically predisposed to aggression, violence and warmongering, with it being "in their DNA" after thousands of years. Little things like that are what have lead to the overall impression. Not immigration concerns.

Not so T.S. I am among a few members on here who have beem labelled xenophobic and racist for my views on immigration, but even if it was true (which it is not) then my 'selective memory' dovetails oh so neatly with other members on here who 'cherry pick' and also often contradict themselves.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Not so T.S. I am among a few members on here who have beem labelled xenophobic and racist for my views on immigration, but even if it was true (which it is not) then my 'selective memory' dovetails oh so neatly with other members on here who 'cherry pick' and also often contradict themselves.

I maintain that a lot of it comes down to how you state the opinion, rather than the opinion itself... But the rest is true enough I suppose

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I LOVE Israel, and I too have Jewish friends, but I'm not Jewish - guess you could call me a 'GOY BOY' - but both my Jewish friends and I, DO find offense in parts of Corbyn's statement.

By implication, Corbyn's phrasing leaves no doubt that he is 'indicting' Israel and Netanyahu's Government of 'something', and also 'condemning' their actions, and though he never elaborates as to just WHAT this 'something' is or just WHY he is indicting Israel and Netanyahu's Government, Corbyn's use of 'self styled Islamic states or 'organisations' as a comparator, coupled with his long established support and empathy for Hamas and other terrorist organisations, renders it perfectly clear that he WAS being slyly antisemitic.

As the the part of your post which I have emboldened, perhaps some sympathy might be forthcoming now for all of us who dared to broach our concerns about 'unfettered and unvetted immigration, and were EVERY TIME - wrongly and unfairly lambasted as xenophobic or racist for our efforts.

That is only your view, not fact, so accusing him of that should be wrong in my view and that is also is in fact inflammatory terminology.

Clearly you have different Jewish friends to me, I spend a lot of time with them and they do not like Corbyn at all but they saw no wrong in this statement,in fact they go further, they actually have said for many years I ahve known them, Jewish people generally should not be tarnished with the actions of the Israeli govt.

Frankly,I support Israel and always have done, on here and off here, so please don't presume to even try to lecture me on this issue just because you have Jewish friends who think what he said offensive.
My Jewish friends are no less equal as to views than yours.

However when I talk to people as to Corbyn, I come from the angle of not blaming him for everything and I do not see him as any terrorist sympathiser either.
Oddly enough,seemingly coming from that non prejudicial view of him, in that I do not find the hostility to him that you and your friends appear to have.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That is only your view, not fact, so accusing him of that should be wrong in my view and that is also is in fact inflammatory terminology.

Clearly you have different Jewish friends to me, I spend a lot of time with them and they do not like Corbyn at all but they saw no wrong in this statement,in fact they go further, they actually have said for many years I ahve known them, Jewish people generally should not be tarnished with the actions of the Israeli govt.

Frankly,I support Israel and always have done, on here and off here, so please don't presume to even try to lecture me on this issue just because you have Jewish friends who think what he said offensive.
My Jewish friends are no less equal as to views than yours.

However when I talk to people as to Corbyn, I come from the angle of not blaming him for everything and I do not see him as any terrorist sympathiser either.
Oddly enough,seemingly coming from that non prejudicial view of him, in that I do not find the hostility to him that you and your friends appear to have.

You are over-reacting Joey. I am posting MY view just as you post yours, and NOWHERE in my post do I 'lecture you' OR claim that my 'Jewish friends' are more 'equal ' than your 'Jewish friends -- even TYPING that seems so infantile.

Of course it is 'my view' because it is me posting what I THINK - that being so, and in the absence of any claim by me in my post that I am posting 'FACT', then your opening statement is redundant.

It is also WRONG, because there is nothing in my post that could be construed as 'inflammatory terminology' - especially when compared to what Corby said.

Incidentally, I am not one of those people - the majority on her I feel - who blindly accepts a premise that Israel is at FAULT for what is occurring in that region, because the TRUTH is very complex and I could fill 15 threads on here about what I know from DECADES of research on Israel.

Just yesterday, a 13 year old Israeli girl - an American Citizen - was stabbed to death by a Palestinian as she slept in her own bedroom.

We are all entitled to our opinions.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You are over-reacting Joey. I am posting MY view just as you post yours, and NOWHERE in my post do I 'lecture you' OR claim that my 'Jewish friends' are more 'equal ' than your 'Jewish friends -- even TYPING that seems so infantile.

Of course it is 'my view' because it is me posting what I THINK - that being so, and in the absence of any claim by me in my post that I am posting 'FACT', then your opening statement is redundant.

It is also WRONG, because there is nothing in my post that could be construed as 'inflammatory terminology' - especially whe compared to what Corby said.

We are all entitled to our opinions.

im partly jewish and i cant find a single thing that remotely offends me about what corbyn said, this is absolute nonsense just to bring the man down

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You are over-reacting Joey. I am posting MY view just as you post yours, and NOWHERE in my post do I 'lecture you' OR claim that my 'Jewish friends' are more 'equal ' than your 'Jewish friends -- even TYPING that seems so infantile.

Of course it is 'my view' because it is me posting what I THINK - that being so, and in the absence of any claim by me in my post that I am posting 'FACT', then your opening statement is redundant.

It is also WRONG, because there is nothing in my post that could be construed as 'inflammatory terminology' - especially whe compared to what Corby said.

We are all entitled to our opinions.

You directly accused him of being slyly antisemitic, accusing anyone of being that with no real proof, is inflammatory in my book, with all the danger that could then promote against that individual or even agsinst groups of people deemed so. just as people calling those on the left red nazis, not you, that is way out of line too.

We have seen enough in this EU campaign to see what problems and dangers inflammatory language can bring about.

If people need to be very careful what wording they use as to bringing Israel into play, then equally people should guard their tongues before accusing anyone of being antisemitic, Jewish haters or nazi's just for their political leanings.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by the truth

im partly jewish and i cant find a single thing that remotely offends me about what corbyn said, this is absolute nonsense just to bring the man down

I have no problem with that, The Truth - it is YOUR opinion based upon your INTERPRETATION - and that is how it should be.

My opinion, based upon my interpretation, is different.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have no problem with that, The Truth - it is YOUR opinion based upon your INTERPRETATION - and that is how it should be.

My opinion, based upon my interpretation, is different.

are you calling corbyn racist?

[y.winter]

I'm Jewish ("by the book", though actually atheist) and Israeli and I find this whole thing laughable, honestly.
UK should take care of its immigration issues, instead of arguing about what Israel and ISIS stand for. It's ISIS who uses it as an advantage, not Israel.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You directly accused him of being slyly antisemitic, accusing anyone of being that with no real proof, is inflammatory in my book, with all the danger that could then promote against that individual or even agsinst groups of people deemed so. just as people calling those on the left red nazis, not you, that is way out of line too.

We have seen enough in this EU campaign to see what problems and dangers inflammatory language can bring about.

If people need to be very careful what wording they use as to bringing Israel into play, then equally people should guard their tongues before accusing anyone of being antisemitic, Jewish haters or nazi's just for their political leanings.

I reached a verdict that Corbyn was being 'slyly antisemitic' based upon my knowledge of the English language and my knowledge of Corbyn's antecedents, and my intelligence.

I have written speeches for public figures and public bodies, and I know the effectiveness of utilising 'emotive' words to subliminely influence the reader, and in what we call the 'Acorn effect' - planting a verbal or written 'acorn' in the mind of an audience so that subsequently and subconciously, it grows into an oak tree.

There is also no NEED to actually write or say the actual seed words - just implication is enough, in circumstances where uttering the seed words may be too imflammatory and lead to recrimination.

Corbyn's phraseology was ultra transparent to all but his most avid supporters - of which, I am not one.

I am amused how you accuse me of being 'imflammatory' because I post my reasoned opinion on what Corbyn said and meant to say, but you are in a state of total denial - as is your right - when it comes to Corbyn being 'offensive', or indeed imflammatory in what he said.

We are all entitled to our opinions.