[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think we simply disagree on this one NM; I think the obvious response to the slogan "Black Lives Matter" would be "Oh... Do some people believe that black lives don't matter or matter less?".

By your logic, it's just as valid to assume that someone politically completely unaware would see a "votes for women!" banner and say, "Hey, why only women??". What you're pointing out is that people were not naive to the context; they knew that it was just women who didn't have the vote. There is nothing IN the message that explains the context, it is assumed as "known".

Exactly the same should apply with Black Lives Matter. Taken in political context, the "too" should easily be implied and the argument that people are getting it wrong "because they are naive to the situation" and don't know that BLM is protesting an inequality is dubious at best. I just don't think it's the case. There is no widespread misunderstanding of the message that needs fixing, those who don't like hearing BLM simply have a problem with the statement full stop, and the supposed "misunderstanding" is a strawman,for the mostpart.

In my opinion adding "... too" is not a simple solution at all. It makes the statement sound like a whine and dilutes it's impact. It takes the power out of it. Definitely not worth it for the (very few) who might be failing to understand the message.

"Exactly the same should apply with Black Lives Matter".

Should apply doesn't mean it does though.You actually have to research what BLM are about to understand it.
I'd say Votes for women is pretty self explanatory.
Or maybe not everybody has your intelligence to read between the lines.
Can you honestly say that the first time you heard the phrase Black Lives Matter without any context that you knew what it was about?
I did'nt.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't believe that the majority of people who respond with "alllivesmatter" were actually confused at all

I would say that alot of people did'nt know wtf it was and just saw a group of people shouting Black Lives Matter at them and they were like 'well yeah of course,So does everyone elses'

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I would say that alot of people did'nt know wtf it was and just saw a group of people shouting Black Lives Matter at them and they were like 'well yeah of course,So does everyone elses'

I think we're never going to agree on it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

"Exactly the same should apply with Black Lives Matter".

Should apply doesn't mean it does though.You actually have to research what BLM are about to understand it.
I'd say Votes for women is pretty self explanatory.
Or maybe not everybody has your intelligence to read between the lines.
Can you honestly say that the first time you heard the phrase Black Lives Matter without any context that you knew what it was about?
I did'nt.

If anyone has to research the context of black lives matter to know what it's about then they are either children, or too politically unaware to be confidently engaging in the debate in the first place (in other words meaning they SHOULD look it up, rather than being reactionary and defensive).

[Jack_]

The people who scream 'all lives matter' are the same idiots who ask 'where's straight pride?!?!' or 'when's black history month?!'

They just miss the point completely

[Crimson Dynamo]

What most people miss is that watching a video is not evidence of anything

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If anyone has to research the context of black lives matter to know what it's about then they are either children, or too politically unaware to be confidently engaging in the debate in the first place (in other words meaning they SHOULD look it up, rather than being reactionary and defensive).

Well now yeah most people know what it is.They did'nt at first though when the all lives matter thing happened as a response.They just saw people shouting 'Black lives matter' at them on Twitter and they were like well yeah so does my white/latino/asian/insert ethnicity life.Not everybody who goes on Twitter and Facebook are politically minded or aware.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What most people miss is that watching a video is not evidence of anything

Watching a video is not but seeing repeated and similar incidents of something happening, and the majority of them coming from the same country, is enough to form a "bigger picture" view. This is a running issue for you LT... A (mistaken) impression that social opinion is (or should be) forged in a court of law.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think we're never going to agree on it

You have to remember that it's not just non-blacks that think the BLM slogan is controversial and a bad slogan.There are many many black people saying it too.Ones who are obvs not involved with the group and who are against them for their behaviour,racism and extreme views.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

You have to remember that it's not just non-blacks that think the BLM slogan is controversial and a bad slogan.There are many many black people saying it too.Ones who are obvs not involved with the group and who are against them for their behaviour,racism and extreme views.

There will be aspects of it that have been hijacked by extremists but unfortunately that's true of all movements,and is really a separate debate.

[Munchkins]

Why am i not surprised many are using this as an excuse to completely discredit the blacklivesmatter movement and tar them all with the same brush
This was exactly the situation they needed, so they could exploit
Yes this is a tragedy, but this does not discredit the amount of police brutality towards POC in America. Both are tragic
Seeing many now trying to label blacklivesmatter as an extremist movement is just tragic

[Niamh.]

This is a good article re the slogan

http://fusion.net/story/170591/the-n...-5-paragraphs/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Watching a video is not but seeing repeated and similar incidents of something happening, and the majority of them coming from the same country, is enough to form a "bigger picture" view. This is a running issue for you LT... A (mistaken) impression that social opinion is (or should be) forged in a court of law.

No, its a mistaken social opinion that is based on a fact that good police videos do not exist as a medium generally but apparent bad ones do and thus young people think that "omg the police are awful"

Its no surprise that this has become an issue with the rose of social media


People are demonstrating and killing innocent people based on videos with zero context or recourse from one side

despicable

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

No, its a mistaken social opinion that is based on a fact that good police videos do not exist as a medium generally but apparent bad ones do and thus young people think that "omg the police are awful"

Its no surprise that this has become an issue with the rose of social media


People are demonstrating and killing innocent people based on videos with zero context or recourse from one side

despicable

You're over-simplifying, acknowledging that the police force in the US has some major issues that need to be addressed is not the same as saying "OMG the police are awful". The police are neither awful nor perfect. You're just as guilty of refusing to see the middle ground as those who would demonise them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The chief of police in Dallas says they used a bomb on a robot to kill one of the snipers

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The people who scream 'all lives matter' are the same idiots who ask 'where's straight pride?!?!' or 'when's black history month?!'

They just miss the point completely

Are you saying that all lives don't matter?

I'm so tired of this sectioning off of society... All lives matter, black, white, male, female, gay, straight, Jew, gentile, Muslim, transgender.... ALL lives.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The chief of police in Dallas says they used a bomb on a robot to kill one of the snipers

I think that referring to these people as "snipers" gives them a kind of glamour they don't deserve.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Livia

Are you saying that all lives don't matter?

I'm so tired of this sectioning off of society... All lives matter, black, white, male, female, gay, straight, Jew, gentile, Muslim, transgender.... ALL lives.

No, and nobody who is a part of the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that all lives don't matter either. Rather they are saying that black people's lives do.

It is such a simple concept for people to get their head around. There is a massive issue in the US with black men and women disproportionately being killed at the hands of police officers. It has to stop. The movement is campaigning for acknowledgement that this is an issue, and that the lives of the black people who are being killed in these incidents matter just as much as a white person's or anyone else's and that they must not be ignored.

It is not a competition, it is not a 'our lives are more important than yours!', it's a 'our lives are just as important as yours!'. Nothing more, nothing less

These same idiots who scream the obvious 'all lives matter' statement miss the concept completely, in much the same way they don't understand why straight pride doesn't need to be a thing and nor does white history month. These movements are about the recognition of oppressed minorities, not a chance for them to say they're better than anyone else. Just that they are the same.

It's very straightforward.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No, and nobody who is a part of the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that all lives don't matter either. Rather they are saying that black people's lives do.

It is such a simple concept for people to get their head around. There is a massive issue in the US with black men and women disproportionately being killed at the hands of police officers. It has to stop. The movement is campaigning for acknowledgement that this is an issue, and that the lives of the black people who are being killed in these incidents matter just as much as a white person's or anyone else's and that they must not be ignored.

It is not a competition, it is not a 'our lives are more important than yours!', it's a 'our lives are just as important as yours!'. Nothing more, noting less

These same idiots who scream the obvious 'all lives matter' statement miss the concept completely, in much the same way they don't understand why straight pride doesn't need to be a thing and nor does white history month. These movements are about the recognition of oppressed minorities, not a chance for them to say they're better than anyone else. Just that they are the same.

It's very straightforward.

Its not its based on a crooked premis that police officers dont care about black people. There is scant evidence for this.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its not its based on a crooked premis that police officers dont care about black people. There is scant evidence for this.

You are trying way too hard LT, I have no idea why people buy into what you say but hey

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

You are trying way too hard LT, I have no idea why people buy into what you say but hey

I am sorry that you seem to find it difficult to believe that you may be wrong about things

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I am sorry that you seem to find it difficult to believe that you may be wrong about things

Nope, just that obvious baiting is obvious

No sane person denies this is an issue so that's why it's BS, sorry LT but your faux defence of the police anytime there's a negative thread about them doesn't wash with me

[arista]

Early paper before the total of Dead went up to 5

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Nope, just that obvious baiting is obvious

No sane person denies this is an issue so that's why it's BS, sorry LT but your faux defence of the police anytime there's a negative thread about them doesn't wash with me

i stick with evidence and fact not mass hysteria and mob justice

If you cant deal with that , tough

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i stick with evidence and fact not mass hysteria and mob justice

If you cant deal with that , tough

The evidence and facts actually stack up against your pretend argument, but you know that already