[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

imo the IRA is not comparable here when you're talking about using Religion as a war tool. This was not why the IRA was formed, the IRA was formed because Ireland was taken over by Britain and then split in two and the IRA were fighting for the country back, not because they were trying to convert anyone to Catholicism or were doing it in the name of Catholicism, it really annoys me when British people try to pass it off as some sort of religious war. Yes most of the "Republicans" in the North are/were Catholics but that's just because Catholicism was the predominant Irish religion. There were actually Protestant members of the IRA too.

I'm not defending the IRA here btw especially in later years there was no going back but I hate the fact that alot of times British people are under the impression that the North was some sort of Religious war where the Catholics are trying to convert the Protestants or something when in Reality it was always a fight for our country back that you lot started by the way by invading us and beating our language out of us, etc etc

If it weren't for the IRA or the earlier version of it the whole of Ireland would still be part of Britain

I agree with this. While I abhor what the IRA did, I don't think there's a right-thinking British person who doesn't acknowledge that they had a point. My father served in the British Army in Northern Ireland and he thinks their cause was a good one... but they chose violence and death. If they'd chosen a method other than packing pipes with nails and ball-bearings and blowing the arms and legs off of civilians to get what they wanted they'd have had more backing on the mainland. And then there's the whole problem of what to do with the Protestants in NI who want to remain British... But they are not comparable to IS and Al Qaeda or any of the various lunatic Islamic terror groups.

[Ninastar]

Ughh this is so complicated for me because in general the answer is no.

But its obvious there is a problem arising and we need to do something about it. Yes 'ISIS' arent 'true muslims' but we cannot deny that this is what they claim to be and they are acting on what they believe makes them a 'true muslim'...

What I don't like about Islam, is the way how they (and yes, other religions too) treat women. I just don't think I'll ever understand how its okay for a woman to wear something that completely covers her whole entire body in (sometimes) 40+ degree heat. I don't think its right at all. I know women have the choice to wear it, but tbh, I feel like there is a lot of pressure for women to wear it.

I love headscarves, I love the shawls and the dresses etc that a lot of women wear, I think they are absolutely beautiful. But when you have to walk 3 steps behind your man and you can only show your eyes in public... now that upsets me and it really annoys me too.

I remember going to Disneyworld in Florida (it was only about 30 degrees then, but still) and I saw a muslim family where there was one teenage girl and her two younger brothers. She had the full outfit on, whilst her brothers were running around in shorts and and a t-shirt...

I understand that a lot of muslims think that our women don't wear enough clothes (I dont blame them tbh) but to go to that extreme just makes me feel a bit sick.

Yes, I know other religions treat women like crap too, but this one seems to take the lead.

[Ninastar]

I hope that makes sense anyway. I'm so not the best with words (as you all know) but I'm honest with my words and thats all i care about really

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

imo the IRA is not comparable here when you're talking about using Religion as a war tool. This was not why the IRA was formed, the IRA was formed because Ireland was taken over by Britain and then split in two and the IRA were fighting for the country back, not because they were trying to convert anyone to Catholicism or were doing it in the name of Catholicism, it really annoys me when British people try to pass it off as some sort of religious war. Yes most of the "Republicans" in the North are/were Catholics but that's just because Catholicism was the predominant Irish religion. There were actually Protestant members of the IRA too.

I'm not defending the IRA here btw especially in later years there was no going back but I hate the fact that alot of times British people are under the impression that the North was some sort of Religious war where the Catholics are trying to convert the Protestants or something when in Reality it was always a fight for our country back that you lot started by the way by invading us and beating our language out of us, etc etc

If it weren't for the IRA or the earlier version of it the whole of Ireland would still be part of Britain

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I agree with this. While I abhor what the IRA did, I don't think there's a right-thinking British person who doesn't acknowledge that they had a point. My father served in the British Army in Northern Ireland and he thinks their cause was a good one... but they chose violence and death. If they'd chosen a method other than packing pipes with nails and ball-bearings and blowing the arms and legs off of civilians to get what they wanted they'd have had more backing on the mainland. And then there's the whole problem of what to do with the Protestants in NI who want to remain British... But they are not comparable to IS and Al Qaeda or any of the various lunatic Islamic terror groups.

mmm There was of course violence from both sides

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

mmm There was of course violence from both sides

Yes there was violence on both sides. But the IRA and the UDA didn't mind setting bombs in shopping centres and pubs etc, that's the difference. They didn't mind blowing up a Remembrance Day parade of veterans. Bloody Sunday aside, I don't think the Army did much blowing up of civilians.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yes there was violence on both sides. But the IRA and the UDA didn't mind setting bombs in shopping centres and pubs etc, that's the difference. They didn't mind blowing up a Remembrance Day parade of veterans. Bloody Sunday aside, I don't think the Army did much blowing up of civilians.

The army sure did kill alot of civilians in Southern Ireland though before we got it back

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The army sure did kill alot of civilians in Southern Ireland though before we got it back

Going back hundreds of years, yes... 800 years of the Fecking English and all that. I'm talking about since the Troubles. Since people became actually aware of what's going on in the world through mass media.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The army sure did kill alot of civilians in Southern Ireland though before we got it back

That gets forgotten conveniently

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Going back hundreds of years, yes... 800 years of the Fecking English and all that. I'm talking about since the Troubles. Since people became actually aware of what's going on in the world through mass media.

You don't have to go back hundreds of years, we remember the fallen of the First World War, but not of 1916 ?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Going back hundreds of years, yes... 800 years of the Fecking English and all that. I'm talking about since the Troubles. Since people became actually aware of what's going on in the world through mass media.

I'm not talking about 800 years ago, I'm talking about the 1920's, where is the line drawn here?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You don't have to go back hundreds of years, we remember the fallen of the First World War, but not of 1916 ?

an Inconvenient history

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not talking about 800 years ago, I'm talking about the 1920's, where is the line drawn here?

Well, I was drawing the line from The Troubles. I can see I'm stirring up something here so I'm out.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It was Tony Blair who sorted out Ireland finally so i think we best forget the whole thing really

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You don't have to go back hundreds of years, we remember the fallen of the First World War, but not of 1916 ?

You do? When a lot of those WW1 Irish soldiers returned to Ireland they were shunned, even buy their families, for siding with the British... if you want to talk about inconvenient truths.

I have always thought what happened in 1916 was a bloody travesty for the Irish people, and a shameful episode in British history, but it seems that be even talking about this is upsetting you and Niamh so... that's me done.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It was Tony Blair who sorted out Ireland finally so i think we best forget the whole thing really

Sorry I posted, to be honest.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

You do? When a lot of those WW1 Irish soldiers returned to Ireland they were shunned, even buy their families, for siding with the British... if you want to talk about inconvenient truths.

I have always thought what happened in 1916 was a bloody travesty for the Irish people, and a shameful episode in British history, but it seems that be even talking about this is upsetting you and Niamh so... that's me done.

And I can totally understand why considering what was going on in Ireland at the time, that isn't an inconvenient truth, why would you think it was?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And I can totally understand why considering what was going on in Ireland at the time, that isn't an inconvenient truth, why would you think it was?

You know, I didn't come on this thread to argue about the IRA. I was agreeing with your points about the IRA not being the same as IS. And now I've got you on one side and Cherie on the other, picking at everything I write.

Half my family weren't even British in 1916.

Why don't you and Cherie have a nice little chat about it between you and leave me out of it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

You do? When a lot of those WW1 Irish soldiers returned to Ireland they were shunned, even buy their families, for siding with the British... if you want to talk about inconvenient truths.

I have always thought what happened in 1916 was a bloody travesty for the Irish people, and a shameful episode in British history, but it seems that be even talking about this is upsetting you and Niamh so... that's me done.

I'm not upset I find it interesting, we can't whitewash history and it doesn't matter how long ago it was it is what shapes a country, I don't expect anyone would want to whitewash the holocaust in 300 years, 400 years, 1,000 years, history is important, good and bad.

Nice to see I'm off ignore

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

You know, I didn't come on this thread to argue about the IRA. I was agreeing with your points about the IRA not being the same as IS. And now I've got you on one side and Cherie on the other, picking at everything I write.

Half my family weren't even British in 1916.

Why don't you and Cherie have a nice little chat about it between you and leave me out of it.

That's fine Livia, I would have left it a few posts back when you said you didn't want to talk about it anymore but then you kept saying stuff, you can't say stuff that will provoke a reaction but then say "and that's that lets stop talking about it now"!

Regarding your original post quoting mine:
I'm glad you agree that they're not comparable but you also added to that original post so i responded to that and you responded to me again because you disagreed with something I said etc etc, I don't know why I'm being blamed when you were doing the same as what I was doing ie disagreeing with the parts of my posts that you didn't agree with

[Tom4784]

The bible preaches that we should stone people for wearing two different fabrics. There's bat**** crazy stuff in all religious texts that no longer apply to today's world and is ignored by most followers and it's no different for Islam. Your Average christian isn't going to go around killing people for eating shellfish and your average Muslim wouldn't carry out the punishments listed on the Quran.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The bible preaches that we should stone people for wearing two different fabrics. There's bat**** crazy stuff in all religious texts that no longer apply to today's world and is ignored by most followers and it's no different for Islam. Your Average christian isn't going to go around killing people for eating shellfish and your average Muslim wouldn't carry out the punishments listed on the Quran.

Double Denim came from Jesus?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Double Denim came from Jesus?

I'm pretty sure Double Denim came from Satan in all honesty.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The bible preaches that we should stone people for wearing two different fabrics. There's bat**** crazy stuff in all religious texts that no longer apply to today's world and is ignored by most followers and it's no different for Islam. Your Average christian isn't going to go around killing people for eating shellfish and your average Muslim wouldn't carry out the punishments listed on the Quran.

you cant really compare the OT with the Koran like that. The NT is the new covenant to Christians and its a lot harder to use to justify death, unlike the unreformed religion of Islam and its guide book of bollocks the Koran

[Mystic Mock]

I personally believe that Christianity nor Islam is peaceful (Mohammed molests a nine year old in the Koran) (and Christianity promotes slavery as if it's a good thing) so no the Religions I don't think are peaceful.

However I do feel that individuals that follow a Religion can be peaceful like in all walks of life.