[the truth]

I suspect monarchy is more responsible for war and death than anything else. Now we may say the dark days of torture , rape and pillage are behind us. But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

I suspect monarchy is more responsible for war and death than anything else. Now we may say the dark days of torture , rape and pillage are behind us. But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

ain't that the truth

[Vicky.]

Erm, ok sorry. IRA were the first 'terrorist' organization that came into my head when IO wrote that post, didn't mean to start all of this :S

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by the truth

I suspect monarchy is more responsible for war and death than anything else. Now we may say the dark days of torture , rape and pillage are behind us. But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

That's an excellent point The Truth.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you cant really compare the OT with the Koran like that. The NT is the new covenant to Christians and its a lot harder to use to justify death, unlike the unreformed religion of Islam and its guide book of bollocks the Koran

I can and I will, if the OT doesn't count then why is it still included in the Bible? It's as valid as the NT for this discussion.

All religions have violent passages, anyone can interpret them in ways to justify their own violent acts. This is not a Islamic thing, religious terrorism has existed for years before Islamic Terrorism rose to prominence and it'll exist for as long as there are people to use religion to justify their violent acts. Give it a decade or two and there will be another religion that's used to justify Terrorism.

Hell, the US suffers terrorist attacks from non-Muslims every few weeks but the media will never call the mass shootings terrorism because they don't wish to confuse the narrative that it's only Muslims that are a threat.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Erm, ok sorry. IRA were the first 'terrorist' organization that came into my head when IO wrote that post, didn't mean to start all of this :S

It's alright as I like discussions about the IRA as it's so morally gray, and that's coming from someone from England who probably shouldn't be understanding the IRA's point of view at all.

Where the IRA did go wrong was when they was deliberately blowing up kids, they lost the general public at that very moment.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What you have to ask is

Just who is the judge of what is the real Islam?

Because if the answer is a made up God then you know you are up sh1t creek without a paddle

[Crimson Dynamo]

and dont forget all the civil war that is going on within this great religion of peace

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What you have to ask is

Just who is the judge of what is the real Islam?

Because if the answer is a made up God then you know you are up sh1t creek without a paddle

This could literally be said of any religion but okay...

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This could literally be said of any religion but okay...

LT hates all Religions tbf, I've seen his posts about others and his not very flattering towards them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This could literally be said of any religion but okay...

It could but not every religion is creating terror and death like ISlam is at the moment

If you have a "god" that cant be questioned or wrong, a book that is the solution, is unalterable and is perfect and a religion that cannot be questioned then it will and does lead to violence and death when it is questioned or comes up against those who will not bend to its will.


to say its peaceful is fanciful

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

LT hates all Religions tbf, I've seen his posts about others and his not very flattering towards them.

i dont hate the COE, no one can

its impossible

[Crimson Dynamo]

Look the reality is that things that tell you to believe in the impossible will always end up fckd up


walk around say Luton with a placard that says that the Koran is fake and wrong and see how peaceful things get


do the same in Norwich with one that says The Bible is fake and wrong and you may get the odd stare

its aint science but i bet i am right

[Novo]

Don't know about Islam but these Catholics are very evil indeed trying to reclaim our British Northern Ireland and hang the Tricolour outside Belfast, you can take that horrible Irish football team Celtic back to Ireland with you instead and make them play in your league and leave Northern Ireland to the Queen

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It could but not every religion is creating terror and death like ISlam is at the moment

If you have a "god" that cant be questioned or wrong, a book that is the solution, is unalterable and is perfect and a religion that cannot be questioned then it will and does lead to violence and death when it is questioned or comes up against those who will not bend to its will.


to say its peaceful is fanciful

It's the people that are using the religion to justify their terrorism that are violent but you know that already.

Every major Muslim organisation has denounced the actions of IS and Al Queda ETC and they do it every time there's an attack. IS is as representative of Islam as the IRA (I bring it up due to how all Irish people were treated in the UK in response to the IRA attacks) is to Ireland or these mass shooters to young white males.

Again, your last paragraph applies to any religion ever.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's the people that are using the religion to justify their terrorism that are violent but you know that already.

Every major Muslim organisation has denounced the actions of IS and Al Queda ETC and they do it every time there's an attack. IS is as representative of Islam as the IRA (I bring it up due to how all Irish people were treated in the UK in response to the IRA attacks) is to Ireland or these mass shooters to young white males.

Again, your last paragraph applies to any religion ever.

Of course its people as gods dont exist but i am afraid the religionists "think" they do.


Go back to the start of the last century and RC was the most dangerous religion


but now its Islam and its not likely to change

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Erm, ok sorry. IRA were the first 'terrorist' organization that came into my head when IO wrote that post, didn't mean to start all of this :S

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by NovoBaratheon

Don't know about Islam but these Catholics are very evil indeed trying to reclaim our British Northern Ireland and hang the Tricolour outside Belfast, you can take that horrible Irish football team Celtic back to Ireland with you instead and make them play in your league and leave Northern Ireland to the Queen

take hibs too

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I would have to say no. But neither is Christianity or most other major religions, in my opinion.

A lot of people (I don't know whether it's a majority or a tiny minority) try to force their religious beliefs and values on others, so in that respect, I don't think religion as a whole is peaceful.

[jennyjuniper]

It's MEANT to be, but as is usual with any religion, the fruit and nut cases decipher it to suit themselves. In fact Buddism is probably the most peaceful religion out there.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

Ughh this is so complicated for me because in general the answer is no.

But its obvious there is a problem arising and we need to do something about it. Yes 'ISIS' arent 'true muslims' but we cannot deny that this is what they claim to be and they are acting on what they believe makes them a 'true muslim'...

What I don't like about Islam, is the way how they (and yes, other religions too) treat women. I just don't think I'll ever understand how its okay for a woman to wear something that completely covers her whole entire body in (sometimes) 40+ degree heat. I don't think its right at all. I know women have the choice to wear it, but tbh, I feel like there is a lot of pressure for women to wear it.

I love headscarves, I love the shawls and the dresses etc that a lot of women wear, I think they are absolutely beautiful. But when you have to walk 3 steps behind your man and you can only show your eyes in public... now that upsets me and it really annoys me too.

I remember going to Disneyworld in Florida (it was only about 30 degrees then, but still) and I saw a muslim family where there was one teenage girl and her two younger brothers. She had the full outfit on, whilst her brothers were running around in shorts and and a t-shirt...

I understand that a lot of muslims think that our women don't wear enough clothes (I dont blame them tbh) but to go to that extreme just makes me feel a bit sick.

Yes, I know other religions treat women like crap too, but this one seems to take the lead.

Great post!

The part in bold leaves a pit in my stomach. It's just horrible.

Personally, I don't believe in telling other cultures how they should lead their lives as I'm very anti-ethnocentric... but I have an issue when one's spirituality starts to impinge on other people's rights to lead their own lives. Therefore, I don't follow a religion as I don't believe in indoctrinating others. My spiritual philosophy centers on the individual, not the group.

I don't feel religions should be politicized in the manner that they generally are now. Christianity is just as bad as Islam as the truth's post mentioned.

Still, I have a hard time judging Islam on the whole for this reason. It's like when the government raided the FLDS in Texas. I agreed with it only because it is a brainwashing splinter religion built around raping women against their will and gaming the tax and welfare system.

For every radical Muslim, there are many peaceful and non-politically motivated parishioners who can coexistence peacefully. When we blame an entire religion for most of the problems in the world we are encouraging it's radicalization via counter-coercive forces, if not by faith, then by culture.

Originally Posted by the truth

But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

How can any religion be peaceful when its aims are to convert 'heathens' to it. If it were peaceful, it would have no designs on expansionism.

While it can be said that the majority in a religion are peaceful, that means squat when that religion encompasses millions of people, because the simple fact is, many, many followers of that religion want to convert the heathens by any means, and their religion having expansionist aims freely condones that behavior.

In this day and age it is ridiculous that any religion should be allowed to freely practice conversion. Remove that from them, and nutters have no longer any pretext to attach violence to religion.

A thousand times this in the bold. I don't necessarily agree with placing restrictions on religious conversion (it wouldn't be a religion anymore, it would be like the local HOA or a God fanclub ).

No religion can be the moniker of peace it often claims to be as long as a priority on expansionism is involved.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Double Denim came from Jesus?

That was a different deity



Praise ha

[_Tom_]

The easy (and redundant) answer is to say that all religions aren't peaceful or that there are non peaceful people in other religions. But all other major religions have reformed and have been modernised. Christianity had a reformation which purged it of its most intolerant and violent aspects, hence the New Testament. Pointing to intolerant passages in the Old Testament which no one has acted on for hundreds of years is not an argument. Islam is the only major religion that hasn't reformed their doctrine to make it compatible with modern civilisation. It is in dire need of a reformation.

Radicalism is not representative of all Muslims, but illiberal ideals, violence and extremism are representative of Islam and, unfortunately, many Muslims do condone such things. At least 10 Muslim countries impose the death penalty for apostasy and for homosexuality - and stone women to death for allegedly committing adultery. Executing people for being gay or for not believing the same thing as you is violent and wrong. It's not peaceful. Polls have shown that the majority of Muslims of various countries support the death penalty for these supposed crimes.

Islam is an ideology. We are allowed to scrutinise, even ridicule other religions like Christianity and Scientology. But not Islam. Why should it be above criticism? No ideology should. It should be just as easily mocked as any other faith. It's far easier to act as if critics of Islam have a problem with Muslims as people than it is to accept the uncomfortable truth.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by _Tom_

The easy (and redundant) answer is to say that all religions aren't peaceful or that there are non peaceful people in other religions. But all other major religions have reformed and have been modernised. Christianity had a reformation which purged it of its most intolerant and violent aspects, hence the New Testament. Pointing to intolerant passages in the Old Testament which no one has acted on for hundreds of years is not an argument. Islam is the only major religion that hasn't reformed their doctrine to make it compatible with modern civilisation. It is in dire need of a reformation.

Radicalism is not representative of all Muslims, but illiberal ideals, violence and extremism are representative of Islam and, unfortunately, many Muslims do condone such things. At least 10 Muslim countries impose the death penalty for apostasy and for homosexuality - and stone women to death for allegedly committing adultery. Executing people for being gay or for not believing the same thing as you is violent and wrong. It's not peaceful. Polls have shown that the majority of Muslims of various countries support the death penalty for these supposed crimes.

Islam is an ideology. We are allowed to scrutinise, even ridicule other religions like Christianity and Scientology. But not Islam. Why should it be above criticism? No ideology should. It should be just as easily mocked as any other faith. It's far easier to act as if critics of Islam have a problem with Muslims as people than it is to accept the uncomfortable truth.

I somehow doubt Mohamed will return anytime soon to deliver the New Quran Maybe someone should go into a mosque and ask Him for a copy...

If Islam were to become more modernized, it would have to be done in a manner that does not take away from what it is, i.e. not merely mimicking other religions. In many ways, Islam's identity is the direct antithesis to those major religions. The watered down version of Christianity we have in the US called 'non-denominational', the emergence of prosperity gospel and the general focus on personal happiness, good feelings and wealth would make most traditional Muslim's skin crawl.

I think that's the attractiveness of the religion for some. It's for those who believe in moralistic principles and older/traditional ways of looking at things.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but is there a Muslim Pope of sorts that can get everyone on the same page as to how to best interpret and communicate Muslim values to the rest of the world. I see it happening eventually actually... some sort of figurehead rising up and becoming the face of all Muslim's... hopefully it is not someone from the ashes of radicalism.

Edit: Very good post by the way.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

That was a different deity



Praise ha

Spoiler: