[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by the truth

his whole attitude and approach is wrong, its judgemental tedious mean spirited on the whole, attention seeking, hypocritical and condescending...he tries to over simplify and put into a box the billions who believe in a God or a greater being.if people want to believe in a God or superior being good for them. what people believe in is none of my business or gervaises. He doesnt come to it from a good place...now billy connolly a man of profound sincerity and a heart the size of texas approaches these subjects differently, he rips the piss out of anything and everything , yet remains open minded and benevolent soul...just seeing him getting highwith the navajo indians and running around naked in the desert was proof enough of that lol....gervais becomes quite sad and cynical when discussing religion. i remmeber well him sneer at kevin kline when discussing religion and beliefs in a greater being and wonderment at creation. its ironic too because gervais is more preachy than any comic ive ever known. hes far better in character playing a smug deluded buffooon...strange how hes soo great at playing that role...leave the real great comedy to billy, louis ck, richard pryor and larry david, etc

This too can be said of many religious people.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This too can be said of many religious people.

it can be said of loads of idiots regardless of religion

[Maru]

Originally Posted by the truth

his whole attitude and approach is wrong, its judgemental tedious mean spirited on the whole, attention seeking, hypocritical and condescending...he tries to over simplify and put into a box the billions who--

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This too can be said of many religious people.

I've seen some atheists who are just as intolerant and bigoted as some religious folk. I'm surprised to see it so often coming from the atheist side but admittedly it's helluva a lot easier to troll religious followers than it is to troll most any other group. If you love trolling people and happen to be atheist, then it's a tempting buffet of self-amusement.

Personally, it's easier to just judge people according to what they do and the values they represent through those actions rather than they go what they actually (or claim to) believe or the # of degrees they've obtained. Usually for the sake of flaunting said belief in lieu of various personal flaws...

In the end, what they do or don't believe has no real bearing for me if the actual person is a horrible human being... life is too short to waste time on it. Most people who quit religion or start a religion do so for personal reasons, which is not really our business unless they somehow make it our personal issue. Things like trauma, chronic harassment, mass suicides, war or murder are problems... not trite things like someone said something religious today and you felt funny.

In that vein, I love watching cult documentaries on things like Scientology and the FLDS. Both groups are ****ed up, but even more interesting how they rope people into their cults and shape the beliefs of their followers. How the US still puts up with Scientology's crap, I don't know, but they managed to beat the IRS for non-profit status... even though there's ample evidence it's nothing more than a pyramid scheme to separate people from their money.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Maru

I've seen some atheists who are just as intolerant and bigoted as some religious folk. I'm surprised to see it so often coming from the atheist side but admittedly it's helluva a lot easier to troll religious followers than it is to troll most any other group. If you love trolling people and happen to be atheist, then it's a tempting buffet of self-amusement.

Personally, it's easier to just judge people according to what they do and the values they represent through those actions rather than they go what they actually (or claim to) believe or the # of degrees they've obtained. Usually for the sake of flaunting said belief in lieu of various personal flaws...

In the end, what they do or don't believe has no real bearing for me if the actual person is a horrible human being... life is too short to waste time on it. Most people who quit religion or start a religion do so for personal reasons, which is not really our business unless they somehow make it our personal issue. Things like trauma, chronic harassment, mass suicides, war or murder are problems... not trite things like someone said something religious today and you felt funny.

In that vein, I love watching cult documentaries on things like Scientology and the FLDS. Both groups are ****ed up, but even more interesting how they rope people into their cults and shape the beliefs of their followers. How the US still puts up with Scientology's crap, I don't know, but they managed to beat the IRS for non-profit status... even though there's ample evidence it's nothing more than a pyramid scheme to separate people from their money.

Oh I went through a phase of being totally obsessed with Scientology, so bizarre

But what makes Scientology and "cults" any different from other religions though? Scientologists shape the beliefs of their followers? so does every other religion

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh I went through a phase of being totally obsessed with Scientology, so bizarre

But what makes Scientology and "cults" any different from other religions though? Scientologists shape the beliefs of their followers? so does every other religion

I can't recommend "Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief" enough. It's a documentary film (about Scientology obviously) and it's brilliant, really eye opening, and quite shocking too, and puts across really well how it's very different from 'normal' religions.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Mormonism and Scientology are two modern cults

the only difference betwixt them and say Judaism or Islam is time

I think there's a lot more to it than that tbh. Mormonism is very new but it still follows the classic pattern of how religions have been set up, and why people become followers etc. Scientology on the other hand is totally separate in my opinion from any other 'religion', especially in it's methods of how it treats people involved in the 'church' but in many other ways too (and shouldn't even be classed as a religion... again, watch "Going Clear" if you haven't seen it, it's great).

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I can't recommend "Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief" enough. It's a documentary film (about Scientology obviously) and it's brilliant, really eye opening, and quite shocking too, and puts across really well how it's very different from 'normal' religions.



I think there's a lot more to it than that tbh. Mormonism is very new but it still follows the classic pattern of how religions have been set up, and why people become followers etc. Scientology on the other hand is totally separate in my opinion from any other 'religion', especially in it's methods of how it treats people involved in the 'church' but in many other ways too (and shouldn't even be classed as a religion... again, watch "Going Clear" if you haven't seen it, it's great).

I may have seen it, I definitely watched a documentary on Scientology but I don't know what it was called. It's ****ed up isn't it? How on earth did they manage to rope massive celebs like Tom Cruise and John Travolta in as well?

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I may have seen it, I definitely watched a documentary on Scientology but I don't know what it was called. It's ****ed up isn't it? How on earth did they manage to rope massive celebs like Tom Cruise and John Travolta in as well?

They talk about Tom Cruise and John Travolta in the film (and imply they kept them and have them promote the church because of 'information' they have on them)... they basically make their followers divulge secrets and things which they keep on file before allowing them to progress through the ranks of the church and learn the secrets of the church etc... (and they have people employed to use that information to blackmail dissenters) it's all really strange and complicated and I probably can't explain it as well as the film does It's all to do with manipulation, control and blackmail though basically. They also have a 'celebrity department' where they have people employed to recruit celebrities... I can't really remeber the ins and outs though, it's been a while since I saw it so I might watch it again

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

They talk about Tom Cruise and John Travolta in the film (and imply they kept them and have them promote the church because of 'information' they have on them)... they basically make their followers divulge secrets and things which they keep on file before allowing them to progress through the ranks of the church and learn the secrets of the church etc... (and they have people employed to use that information to blackmail dissenters) it's all really strange and complicated and I probably can't explain it as well as the film does It's all to do with manipulation, control and blackmail though basically. They also have a 'celebrity department' where they have people employed to recruit celebrities... I can't really remeber the ins and outs though, it's been a while since I saw it so I might watch it again

Yeah that sounds familiar, I think I may have seen it. But what I mean is what on Earth could they actually have on them that are blackmail-able enough to devout their whole life to that crap

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh I went through a phase of being totally obsessed with Scientology, so bizarre

But what makes Scientology and "cults" any different from other religions though? Scientologists shape the beliefs of their followers? so does every other religion

Uhhh.. the church doesn't call you, stalk you, threaten you, pressure you for hours on end to donate money and will even call the bank for you to get you a line of credit, "expose" you to your family, chase you down for talking bad about them... it's very much voluntary to be in a normal organized religion. If you go and stop showing up, nobody will call you. Scientology and FLDS will try ruin to your life for trying to leave... especially if you don't do it quietly.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Maru

Uhhh.. the church doesn't call you, stalk you, threaten you, pressure you for hours on end to donate money and will even call the bank for you to get you a line of credit, "expose" you to your family, chase you down for talking bad about them... it's very much voluntary to be in a normal organized religion. If you go and stop showing up, nobody will call you. Scientology and FLDS will try ruin to your life for trying to leave... especially if you don't do it quietly.

Catholicism has mellowed out quite a lot over the years though

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Catholicism has mellowed out quite a lot over the years though

Maybe where you're at it's different. Here there's never been any substantial pressure above a few comments here and there... unless people happen to run into an uber church going family in their circle who sees them as their meal ticket to heaven/ego boost, but it's not like FLDS/Scientology level pressure and dogma...

For me the difference is it being voluntary versus being brainwashed/forced. Outside of your family home (if they even practice), I would say most institutions, like a school, are atheist. For example, most teachers who have ever vocalized anything about belief, talk about lack of evidence that God exist, etc... so it pretty much cancels itself out.

It's very hard to pressure someone here into a religion nowadays without it becoming synonymous with a cult. There is no church of the US

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Maru

Maybe where you're at it's different. Here there's never been any substantial pressure above a few comments here and there... unless people happen to run into an uber church going family in their circle who sees them as their meal ticket to heaven/ego boost, but it's not like FLDS/Scientology level pressure and dogma...

For me the difference is it being voluntary versus being brainwashed/forced. Outside of your family home (if they even practice), I would say most institutions, like a school, are atheist. For example, most teachers who have ever vocalized anything about belief, talk about lack of evidence that God exist, etc... so it pretty much cancels itself out.

It's very hard to pressure someone here into a religion nowadays without it becoming synonymous with a cult. There is no church of the US

It is different here, it certainly has waaaay mellowed out in recent years but over 90% of our "state" run schools are catholic and that is taught in the schools, as fact. If you identify as an atheist/having no religion your child is put below everyone else on the enrollment list eventhough you're paying for the running of that school the same as everyone else

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Maru

Uhhh.. the church doesn't call you, stalk you, threaten you, pressure you for hours on end to donate money and will even call the bank for you to get you a line of credit, "expose" you to your family, chase you down for talking bad about them... it's very much voluntary to be in a normal organized religion. If you go and stop showing up, nobody will call you. Scientology and FLDS will try ruin to your life for trying to leave... especially if you don't do it quietly.

You've never heard of Jehovahs witnesses then?