[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I told y'all she needed to go at F4. Corey wasn't winning ****

Paul might have won if everyone voted for who they think played the best game but one silly bitch voted for a female because they are female so who knows.

[JerseyWins]

Paul absolutely DESTROYED that final speech. One of the best closing statements I've ever seen on this show. (but he gave a lot of short, not very good answers during the questioning)

I loved Nicole during the jury questioning as well.

Heart-breaking that Paul got so close and lost a 5-4 vote but this was still a very good result.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Paul might have won if everyone voted for who they think played the best game but one silly bitch voted for a female because they are female so who knows.

or, like I just told you upthread, Paul could have had any sort of jury management and not unnecessarily bashed Natalie in her final week or at least give some form of an apology during her jury question. He has no one to blame but himself for losing that vote.

[DrunkerThanMoses]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

yeah, I know lots of people think Paul played an amazing game, and when you compare his to James's and Nicole's I do get it, but he made soooooooooo many mistakes with just general strategy and jury management and who he evicted at F3.

Agreed, but like you said compared to the other 2 he was the best of the 3.

Hes unlucky to have idiots like Davonne and Zak on the jury and feminests like Natalie on jury... I mean if Hitler had a vagina and was in the final 2, Natalie would probably vote for Hitler just because he had a vagina.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Paul absolutely DESTROYED that final speech. One of the best closing statements I've ever seen on this show. (but he gave a lot of short, not very good answers during the questioning)

I loved Nicole during the jury questioning as well.

Heart-breaking that Paul got so close and lost a 5-4 vote but this was still a very good result.

His final speech was one the best ones I've heard in a long time. Nicole's was good and it's such an improvement on Liz's one and Kelsey's.

5-4 made it more tense and I loved it.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LukeB

Paul might have won if everyone voted for who they think played the best game but one silly bitch voted for a female because they are female so who knows.

I don't think it's entirely fair to pin that solely on Natalie, you could say the same about Zakiyah (or rather she was just following orders from Paulie, idk what's worse), or Day. It's sad because if this jury (and the show) were doing this under the pretense of feminism then it's completely misplaced considering Nicole is the antithesis of everything feminism is

Ultimately though you mold your own path to the F2 and Paul shouldn't have taken Nicole, and he shouldn't have told James to keep her around at F4. It was already over

[Macie Lightfoot]

or you could just pin it on Paul himself because he was a loud abrasive asshole all summer? Just a thought.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I don't think it's entirely fair to pin that solely on Natalie, you could say the same about Zakiyah (or rather she was just following orders from Paulie, idk what's worse), or Day. It's sad because if this jury (and the show) were doing this under the pretense of feminism then it's completely misplaced considering Nicole is the antithesis of everything feminism is

Ultimately though you mold your own path to the F2 and Paul shouldn't have taken Nicole, and he shouldn't have told James to keep her around at F4. It was already over

Natalie has been soooooo desperate for a female to win and has said many times she would vote for a female. Zakiyah and Day don't harp on about girl power as much as Natalie does.

[Jack_]

Actually none of this would've happened they not cast the awful brother of a ****ing dullard veteran that already had ties to one of the F2 outside of the show, and had said F2 member coached by one of the least entertaining winners of all time

Or really, you could just trace this back to the very beginning and Grodner could've not casted such an irrelevant vet

[Macie Lightfoot]

well Nicole also didn't make fun of her fake tits all summer behind her back and to her face. I know you've had your vendetta from Natalie from the start and this is just confirmation bias for you, but this is literally Big Brother 101. If you're an offensive asshole to a lot of the jurors, don't expect them to want to reward you with half a million dollars.

[DrunkerThanMoses]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

or you could just pin it on Paul himself because he was a loud abrasive asshole all summer? Just a thought.

Combination of both

Natalie would always vote for a girl even if she was the worst female in the world

Day and Zak are useless and stupid

I think Day will regret her decision

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

or you could just pin it on Paul himself because he was a loud abrasive asshole all summer? Just a thought.

Never denied that, but as you yourself acknowledged this is also what Grodner and co wanted, so it's what they got

Jordan and Dick spring to mind

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Actually none of this would've happened they not cast the awful brother of a ****ing dullard veteran that already had ties to one of the F2 outside of the show, and had said F2 member coached by one of the least entertaining winners of all time

Or really, you could just trace this back to the very beginning and Grodner could've not casted such an irrelevant vet

But none of the choices were really irrelevant they were all fan favourites they tried to please the viewers otherwise we would have had Amanda instead of Da;Vonne... so we have 4 7th placers.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I know you've had your vendetta from Natalie from the start

Had Natalie in my sig once and joined her fan club, yep i soooooooooo had a vendetta against her from the start

[DrunkerThanMoses]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Never denied that, but as you yourself acknowledged this is also what Grodner and co wanted, so it's what they got

Jordan and Dick spring to mind

Add Rachel to that list as well

Again compared to Rachel and Jordan at least production were not obvious they wanted Nicole to win by rigging it for her. She gains merit for playing some sort of her own game, its just she has a awful personality and just sucks.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LukeB

But none of the choices were really irrelevant they were all fan favourites they tried to please the viewers otherwise we would have had Amanda instead of Da;Vonne... so we have 4 7th placers.

Nicole was pretty pointless on BB16 and I'd say both Zach and Donny were more of a fan favourite than her, the former has probably burned bridges with CBS and I can only assume they're saving Donny for a fully fledged All Stars or else wtf?

There's loads of better people they could've chosen than her (and James and Frank)

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Never denied that, but as you yourself acknowledged this is also what Grodner and co wanted, so it's what they got

Jordan and Dick spring to mind

Oh absolutely, my only point here is that it wouldn't take any extra convincing to get Natalie to vote against Paul in the end. She spent the last month of the game mostly being upset with him for all the FT stuff and for all his needless bashing of her in her boot week and kicking her while she was down. Yeah Paul has a lot more credit on his resume than Nicole did, but his jury management was terrible and his end game had a lot of mistakes. You could name about five different reasons why he lost before even getting into production's behind the scenes work and all the pre-show connections to Derrick.

[JerseyWins]

I just don't understand the hate for Nicole.

She's the best female winner the show has had so far (from both a gameplay level - besides maybe Maggie - and a likability level) out of seasons I've seen (since S6).

Also, it IS annoying for someone to vote for a specific gender no matter what (especially with it being a 5-4 vote in this case) but I think Natalie actually genuinely considered both sides tbh and voted for who she thought deserved it in the end. Plus Paul didn't really help his case. :\

[JerseyWins]

Also I can't really remember if I posted about this somewhere but around the time of Da'Vonne's eviction I actually remember thinking we could see a Paul/Nicole F2 and bad jury management by Paul would give Nicole the win.

[Macie Lightfoot]

If you think Nicole's game even holds a candle to Maggie's, there's no point in explaining any of it.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

Oh absolutely, my only point here is that it wouldn't take any extra convincing to get Natalie to vote against Paul in the end. She spent the last month of the game mostly being upset with him for all the FT stuff and for all his needless bashing of her in her boot week and kicking her while she was down. Yeah Paul has a lot more credit on his resume than Nicole did, but his jury management was terrible and his end game had a lot of mistakes. You could name about five different reasons why he lost before even getting into production's behind the scenes work and all the pre-show connections to Derrick.

I do agree, ultimately I think you can salvage a mismanaged jury if you make the right moves in the endgame though. Nicole should've been gone at F4 for a start, and she definitely shouldn't have been taken to the F2. I'm sure we'll be able to piece together how 'they would've voted' if James were sat next to him from exit interviews but it's hard for me to envisage it being as close as it was. It's not often a runner up wins against the third placer because most of the time the HoH is shrewd enough to evict them and/or they've burnt too many jury votes, but this was a complete miscalculation on Paul's part

[Jack_]

I like Maggie way more than Nicole, and that really is saying something

She's definitely my least favourite female winner, and I don't even hate Dick that much tbh so err maybe I'm being hasty but she might actually be my least favourite overall?

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Nicole was pretty pointless on BB16 and I'd say both Zach and Donny were more of a fan favourite than her, the former has probably burned bridges with CBS and I can only assume they're saving Donny for a fully fledged All Stars or else wtf?

There's loads of better people they could've chosen than her (and James and Frank)

I do wish they kept Nicole away now because I'm not a fan of her anymore when I use to and it's sad when you're favourite turns awful, she was in my top 6 now she's isn't because of this season, saying that i'm glad better people didn't get picked because I didn't want to turn against them.

I do think better people are being saved for All-Stars though and it's smart because they could have ruined their reputation and have people turn against them.. Nicole came in a fan favourite and a big fan base but she's not leaving BB with that anymore. James has also lost some fans

[caprimint]

Damn Paul, that was way too close

Nicole isn't a bad winner or anything, I just really wanted Paul to win. It's a shame but it's the way I could see this finale heading unfortunately. Paul still played the best game this season.

Yay for Victor winning AFH too

[Jack_]

I am somewhat glad Nicole's had a turnaround since BB16 cause I never got the love even then