[Kizzy]

I think we all know why posts are deleted in SD ...

FOR BEING MEAN TO ME!!!

Every god damn day some shmuck has a pop at me and I'm like, 'oh that's not very nice, that hurts my feels'... BECAUSE I AM A DELICATE FLOWER!!!

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I think we all knoW why posts are deleted in SD ...

FOR BEING MEAN TO ME!!!

Every god damn day some shmuck has a pop at me and I'm like, 'oh that's not very nice, that hurts my feels'... BECAUSE I AM A DELICATE FLOWER!!!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I think we all knoW why posts are deleted in SD ...

FOR BEING MEAN TO ME!!!

Every god damn day some shmuck has a pop at me and I'm like, 'oh that's not very nice, that hurts my feels'... BECAUSE I AM A DELICATE FLOWER!!!

Well it's either you or Dezzy allegedly...



Disclaimer...other forum members and mods are available

[Withano]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

What do you exactly 'get' out of this Withano?

Cherie is not some ogre, nor am I, nor is LT or BOTS.

If any of us feel that we have a legitimate query, complaint, or grouse, then we should know better than you or anyone else not principally involved.

Cherie - in particular - has every right to create this thread.

You seem to be gaining perverse pleasure out of hounding people for no other reason than 'hounding's sake', or to try to prove how clever you are.

Well, none of us give a drachma for how clever you are, and I think that Cherie has answered enough of your irreverent questions for one night.

Can we give it a rest now please?

I have only ever responded to people who first quote me in this thread. Every single time. If Cherie didnt want to engage in a coversation with me, she had a very simple way to do this by simply ignoring any one of my posts. The first of which was in no way aimed at her, she just decided to snipe. Pretty sure I havent talked to Bots at all, and LT and yourself just once in response to your comments on my posts. However the Last time I did this to you, you kicked up a fuss about how my opinion matters less than yours or something, how you was allowed to quote my posts but not vice versa? I dont know, I dont think you know either.. but its starting to be a habit of yours, have a feeling you feel this makes you win arguments.

I dont get anything out of it but i will stand up for myself if people want to quote me in something, wont want to encourage your bullying ways kirk regardless of how many names you throw into this gang of VIP, principally involved people youve made yourself (prinicpally being an odd word choice, i too have had several posts deleted, i just dont feel entitled to a full explanation every single time, or indeed any time, i think this is the general consensus to many outside your VIP gang if you needed the summary youve missed up to now).

And also if people want to set more work for mods to do because they feel under-valued? Mis-treated? Confused? Then thats a topic for the entire forum. My opinion is, lets not give mods more jobs cos lets at least try to sympathise. If you dont want to discuss this, then dont quote it, simple really.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

You can't just tell anyone to give it a rest, that is censorship.

Throughout this thread, you and the others have been acting as if nobody else is allowed to have an opinion unless they agree with you. Every post defending the mods has been branded ignored and every person who disagrees with all of you is not allowed to have an opinion because they don't post in SD as much as you. Posts get deleted all over the forum but only your group of special snowflakes has caused such a ruckus about it. Are posts in SD the only ones that matter? If I had an innocent post deleted outside of SD is my opinion still invalid?

Exactly true

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Well it's either you or Dezzy allegedly...



Disclaimer...other forum members and mods are available

Eh?... I can't delete stuff

But if you mean posts are being removed for sniping at me specifically, then I only have one thing to say....

[Maru]

I think it's pretty evident that quite a few thin skins exist in S&D... maybe some members need to just use the ignore function more often or work on building a thicker skin if they can't tell the difference between baiting and invitations into intelligent discourse. Think of it as an act of self-compassion for yourself and other users... to save yourself the emotional energy and time. Don't force yourself to have to deal with the same arguments over and over especially if you already know have nothing to do with you or your point.... learn from it if you find that you are not hitting the target with your point... then maybe work on the mechanics of debate and separating yourself from your opinions... but there will always be people on the net who don't use the medium properly and are always projecting their own preconceptions onto others. That's not to do with you and I, so I think respectful to add them to ignore or to scan their posts and avoid misunderstandings.

I've been on the net long enough to know certain writing patterns and where it typically goes. I've had my share of humble soup and toughened my skin through plenty of debates and awful flamewars when the net was just this new novelty item in our living room. Anyway, some people are just not meant to be engaged in internet discourse together... it's like oil and water. They're too different and can't learn from each other in argument... at least not maybe yet. It's not really a personal thing for me really... I take it a considerate gesture when someone tells me plainly why my posts are not their cup of tea... nothing more valuable to me than my time, so I think also mutually respectful to have respect for their time and energy as well.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Withano

I have only ever responded to people who first quote me in this thread. Every single time. If Cherie didnt want to engage in a coversation with me, she had a very simple way to do this by simply ignoring any one of my posts. The first of which was in no way aimed at her, she just decided to snipe. Pretty sure I havent talked to Bots at all, and LT and yourself just once in response to your comments on my posts. However the Last time I did this to you, you kicked up a fuss about how my opinion matters less than yours or something, how you was allowed to quote my posts but not vice versa? I dont know, I dont think you know either.. but its starting to be a habit of yours, have a feeling you feel this makes you win arguments.

I dont get anything out of it but i will stand up for myself if people want to quote me in something, wont want to encourage your bullying ways kirk regardless of how many names you throw into this gang of VIP, principally involved people youve made yourself (prinicpally being an odd word choice, i too have had several posts deleted, i just dont feel entitled to a full explanation every single time, or indeed any time, i think this is the general consensus to many outside your VIP gang if you needed the summary youve missed up to now).

And also if people want to set more work for mods to do because they feel under-valued? Mis-treated? Confused? Then thats a topic for the entire forum. My opinion is, lets not give mods more jobs cos lets at least try to sympathise. If you dont want to discuss this, then dont quote it, simple really.

Nice post Withano

[caprimint]

Originally Posted by Withano

I dont get anything out of it but i will stand up for myself if people want to quote me in something, wont want to encourage your bullying ways kirk regardless of how many names you throw into this gang of VIP, principally involved people youve made yourself (prinicpally being an odd word choice, i too have had several posts deleted, i just dont feel entitled to a full explanation every single time, or indeed any time, i think this is the general consensus to many outside your VIP gang if you needed the summary youve missed up to now).

To label 'Kirk and his bullying ways' is kinda a big deal considering I'm 99% sure your post is serious. Kirk is honestly one of the fairest and most civil posters I've seen engage in discussion on here even when things get heated. I've never seen him be particularly rude/unpleasant to anyone, let alone the bully accusation being called up.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I have only ever responded to people who first quote me in this thread. Every single time. If Cherie didnt want to engage in a coversation with me, she had a very simple way to do this by simply ignoring any one of my posts. The first of which was in no way aimed at her, she just decided to snipe. Pretty sure I havent talked to Bots at all, and LT and yourself just once in response to your comments on my posts. However the Last time I did this to you, you kicked up a fuss about how my opinion matters less than yours or something, how you was allowed to quote my posts but not vice versa? I dont know, I dont think you know either.. but its starting to be a habit of yours, have a feeling you feel this makes you win arguments.

I dont get anything out of it but i will stand up for myself if people want to quote me in something, wont want to encourage your bullying ways kirk regardless of how many names you throw into this gang of VIP, principally involved people youve made yourself (prinicpally being an odd word choice, i too have had several posts deleted, i just dont feel entitled to a full explanation every single time, or indeed any time, i think this is the general consensus to many outside your VIP gang if you needed the summary youve missed up to now).

And also if people want to set more work for mods to do because they feel under-valued? Mis-treated? Confused? Then thats a topic for the entire forum. My opinion is, lets not give mods more jobs cos lets at least try to sympathise. If you dont want to discuss this, then dont quote it, simple really.

Another very good post from you.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

That emboldened sentence is just not what is happening in my case Jessica.

And I totally disagree about any 'victimising' - in fact Dezzy's name has barely been mentioned in this thread.

Any thread on any topic will draw to it members who have an opinion on that topic.

I am referring to genuine opinion NOT opportunistic 'veiled' Trolling and Baiting from personal 'axe-grinding' motives.

This subject is no different, and if several members independently feel that they have had a genuine unfair experience at the hands of a 'Mod', and that 'Mod' turns out to be the same person, then that is not 'ganging up' and it is not victimising anyone.

Dialogue is the only way to resolve any problems such as this, and irrational hostile or untrue comments through misplaced loyalty, by people who were not, and are not, 'principally' involved in the individual issues, is tantamount to stifling that dialogue and, if unrestrained, is what actually leads to 'victimisation - of the ones who are claiming a grievance.

A lot has been written and intimated at, that this thread is 'Much Ado About Nothing' but that is wholly dismissive and unfair to the members who feel strongly enough about their claims, that they enter what is after all 'The Lion's Den' to air those claims.

One thoroughly decent and active long-serving member has quit the forum because of his depth of feelings about his own particular issue - Does that lend weight to any argument that this entire matter is spurious?

No one is painting anyone out to be any kind of habitual monster - that is just not the case - but I have a genuine grievance, and I am attempting to resolve it in a mature and amicable manner.

..it might be personal opinion Kirk but it's still axe-grinding..by the very nature of a few threads in the last few days, it's axe-grinding...and this is not about 'independent voices' because independent voices would independantly voice what they felt they needed or wanted to voice directly to staff/admin...I imagine that many members would have and have thought over time that they had a genuine unfair experience at the hands of a mod, isn't that how it is/how it works that we always think it's unfair and genuine with our own involvement in something/when rules apply to us and we may not be happy about that...but that's just it, I think we also need to look at our own involvement/our own actions and what their contribution has been...and yes, a mod could very well turn out to be the same person on many occasions because of the ratio of staff to members and how active some staff are in general...but again, I just don't think that you're looking at 'the cause' and the need felt for post removal/infractions/bans etc of the same members...why does a specific mod do..?.../is also, why is it necessary to keep doing...time and time again, type thing...and it isn't just one mod anyway which is the reason why the warning at the top of SD has been refreshed so often to highlight it...that in itself is a warning in a way that if it was absorbed and we looked to ourselves, then there would be no need for removal of posts/infractions/bans etc...but we still have those as well which is very evident ...that can't be the responsibility of staff that we do, that's completely the responsibility and ownership of each individual person...and of course, disgruntled voices will group together in their disgruntlement, that my friend is the way it is, whether on or off the forum../negativity and disgruntlement finds 'partners' and like minds...and whether it be in SD or any other section of the forum..that grouping together doesn't give those voices any more credence...


..I'm very sorry that BOTS had made his decision not to post on the forum anymore or for the moment, he's someone who I enjoyed reading his thoughts and contributions and I hope he'll reconsider his decision with reflection (and distance..)...but there are lots of thoroughly decent and long serving members on the forum and in this thread who disagree with what is being accused...those voices have to be equally heard as well...anyway I think this thread is becoming exhausted..(in my opinion of course..)..I do agree with you completely that dialogue/communication is the best way to resolve...but I think that the starting point is very much to look at our own dialogue in threads and whether that contributes as well and how much it does...mods will have different ways of doing things as has been said, Niamh is prone to bold etc when she removes/warns etc because everyone is individual in methods and that's what makes a team gel together, their differences/but still a consistency of feeling a need to moderate more actively...but there is still the same theme running through...that theme of Josy having to refresh warnings, Niamh having to bold and Dezzy and Niamh having to warn/remove and infract/and for the same consistent things and with the same consistent members...(as well as other staff who may not participate but still observe and moderate..)...


..Kirk you said to me that I should step back or needed to and you inferred 'favouring' for a friend...well you also are a friend, I don't 'favour' with the voice I have..I only speak as I see, whether a friend or not...

[Ammi]

...actually just a quick add on......I have seen other mods be deemed as 'inappropriate' in their individuality...in fact actually most other mods...Nathan because he was non confrontational and tended to try to joke to diffuse was often criticised..Marc when he would post a funny gif/pic in 'heated threads'..Ben as well received lots of criticism, Josy has been targeted so much because of her 'moderating style' and has received constant criticism...Niamh as well has also been accused of bias and unprofessionalism...and all completely different personalities but one familiar with them all is that lack of taking responsibility and looking at the part played by the 'disgruntled'....


...also again it feels like not wanting to have an individually quashed in some way or edited in some way and then trying to do just that to someone else for who they are when they're posting a member...and not looking at the threads that have become familiar sadly../the vein of them has become aggressive and hostile by so many, targeting one person or a select few is unfair and wrong....

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by caprimint

This thread isn't one that I've been passionate enough to respond to yet because I don't post in serious debates/rarely have my posts ever gotten deleted, but I don't think Cherie is saying she wants mods to invest their time into her, that's kinda turning the context into something else entirely. I get her point, perhaps sometimes clarification is necessary.

In response to what the thread is actually about - I would say that the times I've noticed posts getting deleted are because they engage in or encourage an argument that could potentially or has gotten out of hand so deleting posts essentially stops that. Obviously it can be annoying if your post was 'innocent' but it is probably easier to delete the whole lot rather than leave random ones because people will be curious as to what it was about and the circle starts again.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by caprimint

To label 'Kirk and his bullying ways' is kinda a big deal considering I'm 99% sure your post is serious. Kirk is honestly one of the fairest and most civil posters I've seen engage in discussion on here even when things get heated. I've never seen him be particularly rude/unpleasant to anyone, let alone the bully accusation being called up.

I think he baits people into arguments a lot so I wouldnt go as far as you have at all. the word bully is more paraphrasing him, ive made the point to him before that its odd to cry bully on a debates forum.. but then again, it seems a few agree with the post so maybe it was appropriate.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hopefully a very important point has been made and noted in this thread, and now we can all march off hand in hand to a bright new event horizon.



Also maybe we will have some new people contributing to SD as they have taken a keen interest in this debate so it's a win win scenario

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet;904178[B

4]Hopefully a very important point has been made and noted in this thread, and now we can all march off hand in hand to a bright new event horizon.[/B]



Also maybe we will have some new people contributing to SD as they have taken a keen interest in this debate so it's a win win scenario

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by caprimint

To label 'Kirk and his bullying ways' is kinda a big deal considering I'm 99% sure your post is serious. Kirk is honestly one of the fairest and most civil posters I've seen engage in discussion on here even when things get heated. I've never seen him be particularly rude/unpleasant to anyone, let alone the bully accusation being called up.

Thank you Caprimint. I sincerely appreciate this.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Hopefully a very important point has been made and noted in this thread, and now we can all march off hand in hand to a bright new event horizon.



Also maybe we will have some new people contributing to SD as they have taken a keen interest in this debate so it's a win win scenario

How many times does it have to be said that this isn't just about SD before you get it into your brain?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by caprimint

To label 'Kirk and his bullying ways' is kinda a big deal considering I'm 99% sure your post is serious. Kirk is honestly one of the fairest and most civil posters I've seen engage in discussion on here even when things get heated. I've never seen him be particularly rude/unpleasant to anyone, let alone the bully accusation being called up.

Yeah? Well when you've been on the receiving end of one of his 'deleted scenes' mocking your politics and rubbishing your character, we'll talk.
Just because you haven't witnessed it does not mean it hasn't happened, I've never witnessed a murder, but I know they happen.

The reason you don't see them is because they are removed from the thread, either when a moderator sees them or I or another member reports them.

[caprimint]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yeah? Well when you've been on the receiving end of one of his 'deleted scenes' mocking your politics and rubbishing your character, we'll talk.
Just because you haven't witnessed it does not mean it hasn't happened, I've never witnessed a murder, but I know they happen.

The reason you don't see them is because they are removed from the thread, either when a moderator sees them or I or another member reports them.

Well I haven't seen proof of it either so I'll continue to speak only based on my own experience rather than believing one side of the story. People can get pretty defensive over opinions/views when it comes to serious debates...I see Kirk as being a respectful person who puts forward a good argument and I don't think he would intentionally offend/insult someone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

How many times does it have to be said that this isn't just about SD before you get it into your brain?

well Jessica if you read what I said I did not connect the two, I just said that I hoped that we would get new people into SD as many of the "younger" members have been excitedly talking about it in the chat thread, mainly ones who never post there so wouldnt it be great to have them involved in SD.

Like yourself, I am sure you have some views on politics and world events like you have lots of views about moderation in this thread?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Well I haven't seen proof of it either so I'll continue to speak only based on my own experience rather than believing one side of the story. People can get pretty defensive over opinions/views when it comes to serious debates...I see Kirk as being a respectful person who puts forward a good argument and I don't think he would intentionally offend/insult someone.

What side? there isn't a side...
Posts have been removed, it is not in question whether those posts deserve removal rather that the member who has had a post removed be informed of it.

Perhaps the offending comments were purely unintentional, that is a matter to be discussed between member and mod/admin isn't it?

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well Jessica if you read what I said I did not connect the two, I just said that I hoped that we would get new people into SD as many of the "younger" members have been excitedly talking about it in the chat thread, mainly ones who never post there so wouldnt it be great to have them involved in SD.

Like yourself, I am sure you have some views on politics and world events like you have lots of views about moderation in this thread?

I'm sure that's exactly what you meant. You're so welcoming.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Hopefully a very important point has been made and noted in this thread, and now we can all march off hand in hand to a bright new event horizon.



Also maybe we will have some new people contributing to SD as they have taken a keen interest in this debate so it's a win win scenario

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy