[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Livia

Learning about a religion does not include memorising verses and prayers and to get kids to recite this aloud in this climate is cynical. And they wonder why the Right is rising in Germany. Can you imagine the furore that would ensue if they got Muslims to recite aloud a Jewish blessing and then claim it was just part of the lesson?

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

I completely agree. School should be secular. I did bible study and Hebrew in my own time and that's how it should be.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by niamh.

i agree with this, i'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

and absolutely this ^.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I agree with the points which you make in your post Jack and I used to think almost identically to you, but now I believe that ALL Religious Instruction AND Education should be totally banned fro all schools, except for dedicated Faith Schools - and even here it should only be allowed under the most rigorous of 'policing' by the Education Authorities.

I have had my mind changed by the increasing cases of schools 'conditioning' pupils and 'brainwashing' them into Religious Fundamentalism and Anti-Western propaganda - even in once traditional secular schools.

Oldknow Academy in Birmingham springs to mind.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BuddyTheElf

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older

I think sometimes with baptism it's family pressure/expectation/not wanting to disappoint. I know my mother and mother in law were very keen for me to do it, even though neither had been inside a church apart from family weddings and baptisms. It was quite hard to resist the pressure.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think sometimes with baptism it's family pressure/expectation/not wanting to disappoint. I know my mother and mother in law were very keen for me to do it, even though neither had been inside a church apart from family weddings and baptisms. It was quite hard to resist the pressure.

Yeah honestly..we did it mainly for the grandparents. Felt a bit of a fraud standing up saying all the religious stuff.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older

I went to a C of E primary school because it was close and apart from singing hymns in assembly in the morning,saying the lords prayer and taking food in for the poor at harvest it was no different from any other school.Still learned about Diwalli and other cultures and did normal lessons etc.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I disagree with it as a non religious person but you can't tell people how to raise their kids and parents who truly believe in God and all that goes with it, how can they not teach it to their kids?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I disagree with it as a non religious person but you can't tell people how to raise their kids and parents who truly believe in God and all that goes with it, how can they not teach it to their kids?

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with the theory behind your post but you have to try to see it through the eyes of a person who is religious, a big part of that is raising your kids by using the religions rules and beliefs etc. It would be going against the religions to not pass it on to their kids

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with the theory behind your post but you have to try to see it through the eyes of a person who is religious, a big part of that is raising your kids by using the religions rules and beliefs etc. It would be going against the religions to not pass it on to their kids

I realise that, hence why I think realistically it's not practical - but I still can't rationalise it. I know that's because I'm an atheist, but I'll still never be able to justify it no matter how hard I try

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

Are you suggesting that people who don't agree with your own particular stance on politics and religion can't think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and reach their own conclusions?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Livia

Are you suggesting that people who don't agree with your own particular stance on politics and religion can't think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and reach their own conclusions?

If you'd read the post properly, what I was actually saying was that every person, child or otherwise, should be encouraged to read, research, debate and come to their own conclusions on a whole manner of issues. Whether I agree or disagree with such conclusions is neither here nor there, in fact it's all part of healthy discourse.

What I was saying applies to everyone, including to the children of atheists - their parents should encourage them to learn about different religions and make their own decisions. The same too works with political beliefs, regardless of whether you're a socialist or a capitalist, kipper or Green voter.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

I agree that it shouldn't be pushed on children but I don't think any of the established religions would survive more than two generations.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I've not seen anyone on the thread say that. You are taking a serious leap in your own direction with this remark.
.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You mock, but you, or should I say your future children/grandchildren, may live to pay for your apathy on the subject. As long as you are not around to worry about it though.

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Germany's fecked.
The country has a low population so what's Merkels plan?Fill it with Muslims

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I know.I saw the Swastikas graffitied on the walls when i was there.
There is much more chance of another far right group getting power though with this Islamisation being left free to prosper.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I have had my mind changed by the increasing cases of schools 'conditioning' pupils and 'brainwashing' them into Religious Fundamentalism and Anti-Western propaganda - even in once traditional secular schools.

These + a large host of deleted posts

I'm just suggesting that religion and atheism should be taught, and children should find their own faith. Those who fear children might pick the wrong one should not be around children when theyre being taught about religion imo, they dont need to hear biases and fear mongering when making their choice, they need structured lessons. Prayer and hymn practice seems appropriate, I dont understand the fuss.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

These + a large host of deleted posts

I'm just suggesting that religion and atheism should be taught, and children should find their own faith. Those who fear children might pick the wrong one should not be around children when theyre being taught about religion imo, they dont need to hear biases and fear mongering when making their choice, they need structured lessons. Prayer and hymn practice seems appropriate, I dont understand the fuss.

I agree with this to a large extent... which will probably surprise Withano!

I think education and religious practice should be separate. Although I do believe religion should be taught as a subject, covering the different religions, the history of organised religion and also atheism, as suggested above. I know that there are some kids who are brought up indoctrinated into a religion, and being born into a Jewish family I'm sure some people may think that about me. But I was never pushed to follow the faith, it was my own choice, and my brother's own choice. And still there are things about the faith with which I don't agree and am happy to say so.

As always, the problem lays with the fundamentalists... of all faiths.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

I agree with this 100%. I don't think faith schools should be allowed. Religion has no real place in education.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I agree with this 100%. I don't think faith schools should be allowed. Religion has no real place in education.

I agree. Education is about teaching facts. Religion is about a belief, not fact.