[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The meat and potatoes of this issue is that people confuse Freedom of Speech with not having to face consequences for what they say which is wrong because ALL opinions come with consequences regardless of Free Speech.

Freedom of speech is about being able to criticise dubious beliefs/practice carried out in the name of religion and such criticism not being stifled to appease any particular group. No subject matter should be beyond criticism as some on here seem to suggest.

What should be the consequences for criticising female subjugation within the Muslim religion in Britain in your opinion, particularly bearing in mind we are supposed to believe in sexual equality in this country. Seriously this is an important issue and should be addressed, not ignored.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Freedom of speech is about being able to criticise dubious beliefs/practice carried out in the name of religion.

Why cant your criticism be critiqued though?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Why cant your criticism be critiqued though?

It can, but to just resort to namecalling is not critique, it's an attempt to shut down further discussion on the subject. That then gets peoples' backs up and, well the rest is history.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It can, but to just resort to namecalling is not critique, it's an attempt to shut down further discussion on the subject. That then gets peoples' backs up and, well the rest is history.

So I guess calling - for example - a racist post 'racist' is okay, but calling the poster 'racist' is not okay? Like freedom of speech aside, is this your argument?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

So I guess calling - for example - a racist post 'racist' is okay, but calling the poster 'racist' is not okay? Like freedom of speech aside, is this your argument?

Well doesn't that depend on what was said for someone to make an allegation of racism - not every such allegation opwill necessarily be 'racist' and may just be that person's interpretation.

Just because someone cries racist doesn't make it true. If you disagree with a post you say why not just shout racist because you don't agree, for example to simply dismiss peoples' concerns on the effects of mass immigration as racist is unreasonable and incorrect.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Well doesn't that depend on what was said for someone to make an allegation of racism - not every such allegation opwill necessarily be 'racist' and may just be that person's interpretation.

Just because someone cries racist doesn't make it true. If you disagree with a post you say why not just shout racist because you don't agree, for example to simply dismiss peoples' concerns on the effects of mass immigration as racist is unreasonable and incorrect.

This is all hypothetical, to try and understand what your opinions on freedom of speech really are cos youve contradicted yourself a few times..

Is writing an obviously sexist post okay cos freedom of speech?
Is calling the post sexist okay cos freedom of speech?
Is calling the poster sexist okay cos freedom of speech?

Can you just reiterate what your argument is by answering these Qs.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

This is all hypothetical, to try and understand what your opinions on freedom of speech really are cos youve contradicted yourself a few times..

Is writing an obviously sexist post okay cos freedom of speech?
Is calling the post sexist okay cos freedom of speech?
Is calling the poster sexist okay cos freedom of speech?

Can you just reiterate what your argument is by answering these Qs.

I have not contradicted myself. I have stated how hypocritical it is of a poster from the for immigration camp to accuse those from the against immigration camp of taking offence at criticism of their views when the person posting has previously taken offence at any criticism of their views by resorting to name-calling. What is that if not hypocritical?

If someone writes a blatant sexist/racist post it is open to both interpretation and criticism. But people should remember how they have reacted in the past before being quick to accuse others. That is my point.


.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Freedom of speech is about being able to criticise dubious beliefs/practice carried out in the name of religion and such criticism not being stifled to appease any particular group. No subject matter should be beyond criticism as some on here seem to suggest.

What should be the consequences for criticising female subjugation within the Muslim religion in Britain in your opinion, particularly bearing in mind we are supposed to believe in sexual equality in this country. Seriously this is an important issue and should be addressed, not ignored.

The problem is that you only believe in free speech when it suits you (and your idea of freedom of speech doesn't extend to people you disagree with) and this thread is proof of that.

This post of yours is just a desperate attempt to move the goalposts to try to gain some ground and it's (once again) hypocritical since you're all for criticising things you dislike but you cry foul the second someone criticises your views. This whole bigot stuff is proof of that. You've gone from acting like a victim, trying to silence anyone who disagrees with you to acting like you are the defender of free speech when it comes to criticising Islam.

So which is it? Freedom of Speech for all or none at all? You're trying to have your cake and eat it and you'll keep tripping up until you make your choice.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The problem is that you only believe in free speech when it suits you (and your idea of freedom of speech doesn't extend to people you disagree with) and this thread is proof of that.

This post of yours is just a desperate attempt to move the goalposts to try to gain some ground and it's (once again) hypocritical since you're all for criticising things you dislike but you cry foul the second someone criticises your views. This whole bigot stuff is proof of that. You've gone from acting like a victim, trying to silence anyone who disagrees with you to acting like you are the defender of free speech when it comes to criticising Islam.

So which is it? Freedom of Speech for all or none at all? You're trying to have your cake and eat it and you'll keep tripping up until you make your choice.

Rubbish. Me trying to silence people - pot/kettle I think. It doesn't matter what I say the two of you will twist what I say to suit your agenda. It is for others to form their own opinions. - too tired to care right now.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Rubbish. Me trying to silence people - pot/kettle I think. It doesn't matter what I say the two of you will twist what I say to suit your agenda. It is for others to form their own opinions. - too tired to care right now.

When have I ever tried to silence you? I'd ask for receipts but I'm guessing you'd just respond with something non factual like 'there's plenty of people to back me up!' in lieu of actual proof. Any unfounded attacks on me will be disregarded for the lies they are unless you can actually back it up.

I've always questioned you on things, when you've accused me of things I've always given you the chance to back your claims up. When we're discussing things I question you so you can expand your thoughts. I don't silence anyone, I give you opportunities to back up your thoughts and to explain them further but you waste them because you believe your own opinion is untouchable.

I don't believe that about my own opinion as can be seen in plenty of threads in this section. If someone questions me on my opinion, I answer them and explain my position. I encourage discussion, you encourage insults and discourage actual debates.

You seem to be accusing me of things that you alone are guilty of. Projection?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

When have I ever tried to silence you? I'd ask for receipts but I'm guessing you'd just respond with something non factual like 'there's plenty of people to back me up!' in lieu of actual proof. Any unfounded attacks on me will be disregarded for the lies they are unless you can actually back it up.

I've always questioned you on things, when you've accused me of things I've always given you the chance to back your claims up. When we're discussing things I question you so you can expand your thoughts. I don't silence anyone, I give you opportunities to back up your thoughts and to explain them further but you waste them because you believe your own opinion is untouchable.

I don't believe that about my own opinion as can be seen in plenty of threads in this section. If someone questions me on my opinion, I answer them and explain my position. I encourage discussion, you encourage insults and discourage actual debates.

You seem to be accusing me of things that you alone are guilty of. Projection?

You have tried to silence people by dismissing their opinions as racist in previous threads, that is fact. Automatically accusing people of that because their views are not agreeable to you is a way of attempting to shut people down.

Disapproving of certain religious practice and not wanting such practice to be tolerated in this country when it is completely contrary to the beliefs of the vast majority of the modern world is not racist - it has nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with opposing tolerance of religious oppression and abuse for the sake of political correctness.

Telling people to produce 'evidence' that you have said this in the past is simply diversion tactics as who is going to waste their time going through endless old threads. If you forget you have said this, which personally I find hard to believe, that is your responsibility not that of others who point it out.

I don't believe my opinions are untouchable - I simply defend them like everyone else. Using adjectives such as racist or bigot is hardly productive and does not encourage discussion, it only serves to undermine opinions and set the tone of the post/thread. As for accusing me of projection, like everything else that is simply an allegation based on your own opinion, not fact.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You have tried to silence people by dismissing their opinions as racist in previous threads, that is fact. Automatically accusing people of that because their views are not agreeable to you is a way of attempting to shut people down.

Disapproving of certain religious practice and not wanting such practice to be tolerated in this country when it is completely contrary to the beliefs of the vast majority of the modern world is not racist - it has nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with opposing tolerance of religious abuse for the sake of political correctness.

Telling people to produce 'evidence' that you have said this in the past is simply diversion tactics as who is going to waste their time going through endless old threads. If you forget you have said this, which personally I find hard to believe, that is your responsibility not that of others who point it out.

I don't believe my opinions are untouchable - I simply defend them like everyone else. Using adjectives such as racist or bigot is hardly productive and does not encourage discussion, it only serves to undermine opinions and set the tone of the post/thread. As for accusing me of projection, like everything else that is simply an allegation based on your own opinion, not fact.

Well there we have it, who has the right to offend?... Which is kind of what the thread is about however you haven't been accused of being a racist or bigot in this thread have you?

If you criticise the right leaning views of certain UK tabloids then you are accused of being 'red' a ' marxist' or maybe the worst slur a 'corbynista'...and if you agree with them you run the risk of being accused of being a bigot or a fascist due to their bigoted fascistic content.

Should you subscribe to one very narrow narrative then you can't be surprised when you are judged on that, as you have in essence nailed your colours to the mast.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You have tried to silence people by dismissing their opinions as racist in previous threads, that is fact. Automatically accusing people of that because their views are not agreeable to you is a way of attempting to shut people down.

Disapproving of certain religious practice and not wanting such practice to be tolerated in this country when it is completely contrary to the beliefs of the vast majority of the modern world is not racist - it has nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with opposing tolerance of religious oppression and abuse for the sake of political correctness.

Telling people to produce 'evidence' that you have said this in the past is simply diversion tactics as who is going to waste their time going through endless old threads. If you forget you have said this, which personally I find hard to believe, that is your responsibility not that of others who point it out.

I don't believe my opinions are untouchable - I simply defend them like everyone else. Using adjectives such as racist or bigot is hardly productive and does not encourage discussion, it only serves to undermine opinions and set the tone of the post/thread. As for accusing me of projection, like everything else that is simply an allegation based on your own opinion, not fact.

Accusations without proof are lies until proven otherwise.

Asking for receipts when you accuse me of things that didn't happen isn't diversionary tactics. Wild accusations are the true diversions here because you've tied yourself in knots with several hypocritical posts and you can't get out of it without admitting you are wrong.

Don't make accusations that you can't back up, it's a fairly simple concept to grasp.

Your posts in this thread speak for themselves, you've contradicted yourself repeatedly and these contradictions have been pointed out to you and you've ignored them. You are projecting everything you are guilty of onto me and that's plain as day for everyone to see.

This is pointless so if you have anything to actually add to the topic then do so. Personal attacks and made up incidents achieve nothing.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Accusations without proof are lies until proven otherwise.

Asking for receipts when you accuse me of things that didn't happen isn't diversionary tactics. Wild accusations are the true diversions here because you've tied yourself in knots with several hypocritical posts and you can't get out of it without admitting you are wrong.

Don't make accusations that you can't back up, it's a fairly simple concept to grasp.

Your posts in this thread speak for themselves, you've contradicted yourself repeatedly and these contradictions have been pointed out to you and you've ignored them. You are projecting everything you are guilty of onto me and that's plain as day for everyone to see.


This is pointless so if you have anything to actually add to the topic then do so. Personal attacks and made up incidents achieve nothing.

Point out the contradictions then as I don't see them from a clear and valid source. Just rubbish and no substance.

I see no personal attacks in that post either just an honest response to your post.