[Withano]

Originally Posted by Greg!

As well as being an absolute racist twat, Donald trump is incredibly stupid as well. There have been ZERO Americans killed by citizens of any of the banned countries since 1975. People have been killed by Saudis and Egyptians but those countries aren't banned- I wonder why! Oh yeah, it's because Trump has business interests in those countries.

Its painful.

[Deirdre]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I think stringent checks on people from those countries is only sensible.However a ban is going to turn out to be pretty impractical and unworkable.For example there is a Conservative politician in Britain who was born in Iraq.What if he needs to go to the US on business?I think a ban will bring all kinds of problems.It will be a logistical nightmare.
I don't agree with his ban on refugees either.The US needs to be taking its fair share in along with every other country.Not doing so will just put more stress on Europe.
He's not thinking things through.It's almost like giving a toddler the keys to your car.

I agree. He has the right idea but going about it in the wrong way. He needs to focus on people living in his own country who have been investigated by the FBI for links to terrorism. Anyone can see that this is where the major issue lies.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It doesn't change a thing, you're bringing emotions into a discussion about facts because you can't argue with the said facts.

If you wish to generalise threats in America then why aren't you campaigning against socially awkward white teenagers since they are more likely to kill people en masse in the US than a Muslim is. Domestic terrorism IE school shootings, attacks on abortion clinics, other types of mass shootings in public places are more common than a terrorist attack from a foreign extremist. Even when you look at the domestic attacks, the chances of being killed by a muslim terrorist are less than that than an upset white teenager that's mad at the world.

The restrictions placed on Muslim countries will not prevent terrorism, it is just a placebo for the willfully ignorant. Attitudes like yours are part of the problem and I believe Trump's actions will likely lead to more than one major terrorist attack in the near future since he is aggravating the situation instead of taking meaningful actions to solve the problem once and for all.

Attitudes like yours put everybody at risk as you constantly put your desire to appease Muslims above anything else. There will undoubtedly be a major terrorist attack in the near future, that has been on the cards for a long time, hardly rocket science, but of course the anti-Trumps will try to put that on him and his ban rather than the hate filled bitter Muslim terrorists who thrive on terrorising people and who have been looking for the opportunity to do so for some time. The fact that more attacks have not occurred is because they have been thwarted by good intelligence.

Hopefully the opportunity to carry out an attack will further be thwarted by the ban - we don't want to make it too easy for them do we? They will probably attack Americans elsewhere in the world where it will be easier to get at them.

As for wilful ignorance I see plenty of that coming from the anti-Trump side from those furious that he actually had the nerve to keep his word. Like it or not this is what many of the American electorate wanted and why he was voted in And he owes an allegiance to them not left-leaning Brits who want to try to tell Americans what they can and can't do in their country or left/leaning Americans who didn't vote for him. At the end of the day he is trying to protect all Americans even if some are too stupid to see that and can only focus on the rights of the Muslim minority.

Socially awkward teenagers cannot be compared to religous groups as they are Americans and the responsibility of the American system. The same duty of responsibility is not owed to immigrants who abuse the privilege of being allowed into America.

It is irrelevant how many Americans/Westerners are killed in other ways, if we can stop more being killed by religous groups who hate our freedoms and way of life and seek to destroy that, it is a good thing not a bad thing.

[MB.]

Originally Posted by Alf

What are you trying to tell us? Are you saying we don't need to worry about terrorism, but instead concentrate on the weather?

No, that's not what I'm saying in the slightest

[Crimson Dynamo]

not here for this weather shade

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Attitudes like yours put everybody at risk as you constantly put your desire to appease Muslims above anything else. There will undoubtedly be a major terrorist attack in the near future, that has been on the cards for a long time, hardly rocket science, but of course the anti-Trumps will try to put that on him and his ban rather than the hate filled bitter Muslim terrorists who thrive on terrorising people and who have been looking for the opportunity to do so for some time. The fact that more attacks have not occurred is because they have been thwarted by good intelligence.

Hopefully the opportunity to carry out an attack will further be thwarted by the ban - we don't want to make it too easy for them do we? They will probably attack Americans elsewhere in the world where it will be easier to get at them.

As for wilful ignorance I see plenty of that coming from the anti-Trump side from those furious that he actually had the nerve to keep his word. Like it or not this is what many of the American electorate wanted and why he was voted in And he owes an allegiance to them not left-leaning Brits who want to try to tell Americans what they can and can't do in their country or left/leaning Americans who didn't vote for him. At the end of the day he is trying to protect all Americans even if some are too stupid to see that and can only focus on the rights of the Muslim minority.

Socially awkward teenagers cannot be compared to religous groups as they are Americans and the responsibility of the American system. The same duty of responsibility is not owed to immigrants who abuse the privilege of being allowed into America.

It is irrelevant how many Americans/Westerners are killed in other ways, if we can stop more being killed by religous groups who hate our freedoms and way of life and seek to destroy that, it is a good thing not a bad thing.

What is your strategy for home grown terrorism?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So basically many on here are saying that the death of a few Americans via terrorist hands is preferable to banning Muslims from the country. Even an increase in that figure would be preferred to denying Muslims the right to stay. Nice. As long as it isn't their own of course.

The general rule is, if you don't want refugees, then don't go into their countries and bomb them to pieces, or support people bombing them to pieces. America btw, had a big hand in that... happy to go to war but reluctant to face the humanitarian consequences of those wars.

And another thing; why is SAUDI ARABIA EXEMPT? Those fcukers are responsible for more terrorism than anybody else.

The lack of humanity from some people on these boards towards people who have no homes because America has flattened their country, is truly staggering.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The general rule is, if you don't want refugees, then don't go into their countries and bomb them to pieces, or support people bombing them to pieces. America btw, had a big hand in that... happy to go to war but reluctant to face the humanitarian consequences of those wars.

And another thing; why is SAUDI ARABIA EXEMPT? Those fcukers are responsible for more terrorism than anybody else.

The lack of humanity from some people on these boards towards people who have no homes because America has flattened their country, is truly staggering.

Welcome to Britain

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Attitudes like yours put everybody at risk as you constantly put your desire to appease Muslims above anything else. There will undoubtedly be a major terrorist attack in the near future, that has been on the cards for a long time, hardly rocket science, but of course the anti-Trumps will try to put that on him and his ban rather than the hate filled bitter Muslim terrorists who thrive on terrorising people and who have been looking for the opportunity to do so for some time. The fact that more attacks have not occurred is because they have been thwarted by good intelligence.

Hopefully the opportunity to carry out an attack will further be thwarted by the ban - we don't want to make it too easy for them do we? They will probably attack Americans elsewhere in the world where it will be easier to get at them.

As for wilful ignorance I see plenty of that coming from the anti-Trump side from those furious that he actually had the nerve to keep his word. Like it or not this is what many of the American electorate wanted and why he was voted in And he owes an allegiance to them not left-leaning Brits who want to try to tell Americans what they can and can't do in their country or left/leaning Americans who didn't vote for him. At the end of the day he is trying to protect all Americans even if some are too stupid to see that and can only focus on the rights of the Muslim minority.

Socially awkward teenagers cannot be compared to religous groups as they are Americans and the responsibility of the American system. The same duty of responsibility is not owed to immigrants who abuse the privilege of being allowed into America.

It is irrelevant how many Americans/Westerners are killed in other ways, if we can stop more being killed by religous groups who hate our freedoms and way of life and seek to destroy that, it is a good thing not a bad thing.

All the ban will achieve is make America a bigger target. The ban does nothing to stop terrorism, it's just for the sake of people like you who are wilfully ignorant.

It's not about appeasement, it's about common sense. Not all muslims are terrorists and it does nothing good to treat innocent people as suspects based on nothing but your own paranoid fears. What Trump is doing is unconstitutional and goes against the core tenets that the US was built upon. It's rather sad that you are supporting the infringement of human rights because you are crippled by fear especially when this ban will do nothing to actually help.

People who gladly throw their own rights away and the rights of others to feel a false sense of security make me sick.

Your third paragraph is just the typical useless 'LEFT IS THE DEVIL' rubbish that you present as fact although it isn't in the slightest. You've ignored actual facts presented by peopel in thsi thread because you can't argue against them, like usual, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Your point about downplaying terrorism committed by non-muslim parties is silly too, there hasn't been a Muslim terrorist attack carried out by a foreign party in any of the banned countries since 1975 like Greg said so what's the point of this ban? It's a meaningless measure meant to appease the ignorant and not actually achieve anything in the process.

When it comes to terrorism, the biggest threat to the average American isn't every Muslim from abroad but white mass shooters that were born and raised in America. It's kind of odd how you are so willing to breeze past that to screech about arabic people and muslims.

[Kizzy]

Empty vessels make the most noise.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

All the ban will achieve is make America a bigger target. The ban does nothing to stop terrorism, it's just for the sake of people like you who are wilfully ignorant.

It's not about appeasement, it's about common sense. Not all muslims are terrorists and it does nothing good to treat innocent people as suspects based on nothing but your own paranoid fears. What Trump is doing is unconstitutional and goes against the core tenets that the US was built upon. It's rather sad that you are supporting the infringement of human rights because you are crippled by fear especially when this ban will do nothing to actually help.

People who gladly throw their own rights away and the rights of others to feel a false sense of security make me sick.

Your third paragraph is just the typical useless 'LEFT IS THE DEVIL' rubbish that you present as fact although it isn't in the slightest. You've ignored actual facts presented by peopel in thsi thread because you can't argue against them, like usual, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Your point about downplaying terrorism committed by non-muslim parties is silly too, there hasn't been a Muslim terrorist attack carried out by a foreign party in any of the banned countries since 1975 like Greg said so what's the point of this ban? It's a meaningless measure meant to appease the ignorant and not actually achieve anything in the process.

When it comes to terrorism, the biggest threat to the average American isn't every Muslim from abroad but white mass shooters that were born and raised in America. It's kind of odd how you are so willing to breeze past that to screech about arabic people and muslims.

Can't be bothered to continue with a mod who doesn't abide by his own forum's rules by not insulting members. Not exactly setting a good example to forum members is it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Can't be bothered to continue with a mod who doesn't abide by his own forum's rules by not insulting members. Not exactly setting a good example to forum members is it.

Tata

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Tata

Did I say I was leaving the thread, just not conversing with those that don't follow their own rules. Shame.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Can't be bothered to continue with a mod who doesn't abide by his own forum's rules by not insulting members. Not exactly setting a good example to forum members is it.

Here comes the traditional 'I can't argue with what you're saying so I'm gonna make out that I'm being bullied by a mod when I'm not because I can't admit defeat' card.

It's funny because I've not insulted you, in fact you're the one that's gotten personal by bringing up the fact that I'm a mod as an attempt to try and shut down my opinion.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Here comes the traditional 'I can't argue with what you're saying so I'm gonna make out that I'm being bullied by a mod when I'm not because I can't admit defeat' card.

It's funny because I've not insulted you, in fact you're the one that's gotten personal by bringing up the fact that I'm a mod as an attempt to try and shut down my opinion.

So directly calling me 'wilfully ignorant' isn't insulting. I have been infracted for less. So it is okay for us to call each other ignorant, or is that only for mods. I would have thought is less acceptable for mods as they have an example to set.

Challenge my posts all you like, I am no angel, but don't directly insult me as it is against the rules and you know it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So directly calling me 'wilfully ignorant' isn't insulting. I have been infracted for less. So it is okay for us to call each other ignorant, or is that only for mods. I would have thought is less acceptable for mods as they have an example to set.

Challenge my posts all you like, I am no angel, but don't directly insult me as it is against the rules and you know it.

Well that's a lie. You have six infractions and none of them are for calling anyone ignorant.

I only infract insults if they are actually insults, saying that someone is ignorant is not something I'd consider an insult especially in this context as you have ignored or downplayed facts presented by others that don't suit your agenda. That is pretty ignorant.

If I used an actual abusive term against you then you'd be right but ignorance, like bigot is a descriptor of someone's opinion. Not an insult.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well that's a lie. You have six infractions and none of them are for calling anyone ignorant.

I only infract insults if they are actually insults, saying that someone is ignorant is not something I'd consider an insult especially in this context as you have ignored or downplayed facts presented by others that don't suit your agenda. That is pretty ignorant.

If I used an actual abusive term against you then you'd be right but ignorance, like bigot is a descriptor of someone's opinion. Not an insult.

No they were for being less offensive than that. How have I lied? Proof please.

Ok so we can all take it that it is ok to call each their ignorant.

Now we know.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So directly calling me 'wilfully ignorant' isn't insulting. I have been infracted for less. So it is okay for us to call each other ignorant, or is that only for mods. I would have thought is less acceptable for mods as they have an example to set.

Challenge my posts all you like, I am no angel, but don't directly insult me as it is against the rules and you know it.

To be fair, is it really that unfounded?

lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ignorant

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No they were for being less offensive than that. How have I lied? Proof please.

Ok so we can all take it that it is ok to call each their ignorant.

Now we know.

With your permission I could screenshot your infractions for you if you like? Would that be proof enough?

Yes, I have no problem with you or anyone calling anyone ignorant, it's not an insult.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

To be fair, is it really that unfounded?

lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ignorant

In these types of topics people on both sides are critical of each other but you point out where I have said anything worse than anyone else. I choose my words carefully, due to previous experience, and I am not the one that got too personal.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

With your permission I could screenshot your infractions for you if you like? Would that be proof enough?

Yes, I have no problem with you or anyone calling anyone ignorant, it's not an insult.

What are you on about - what did I lie about - explain. I never said I got banned for calling someone ignorant, I said I got banned for less. Where is the lie?

[Kizzy]

Boris Johnson has secured an exemption for most British citizens from Donald Trump's 'Muslim ban'.

Under the assurance received from figures in Mr Trump's administration almost all UK nationals would be exempt, except dual citizens travelling to the US directly from one of seven listed countries.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7552386.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Empty vessels make the most noise.

Only if banged incessantly

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What are you on about - what did I lie about - explain. I never said I got banned for calling someone ignorant, I said I got banned for less. Where is the lie?

In fairness, there are two infractions that I disagree with but the rest? All worse than calling someone ignorant.

Upon doing the maths, you got banned for one of the infractions that was worse than calling someone ignorant so I'm not wrong in my initial assessment.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

In fairness, there are two infractions that I disagree with but the rest? All worse than calling someone ignorant.

Upon doing the maths, you got banned for one of the infractions that was worse than calling someone ignorant so I'm not wrong in my initial assessment.

What assessment - that I'm supposedly a liar. Would love to know what I lied about - so I'm ignorant and a liar. Yeah, yeah.

If someone infracts me for calling someone ignorant I will be sure to remind them of this conversation.