[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Get over yourself in thinking you have the right to tell me how to think. There is nothing untrue in anything I have said. You just blindly defend because it is PC to do so. No thought processes required.

Nobody says youre being PC when you fight against sexism? Is this your double standards again?

What it comes down to is you "having a strong dislike" for 23% of the world because of a handful of extremists. This is irrational hatred, and this is stupid.

Think of it any way you like, I'm not sure if you turned down or accepted the Islamophobic label, your posts were unclear, but I can assure you that in this thread alone, this is how you come across. History tells us that people just need a bit of education to stop unnecessary racism/sexism/homophobia. Draw the line, make the connection, and do a few google searches without your confirmation bias. Educate yourself on the 22.9999(recurring)% of the world that you slander on the daily.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Nobody says youre being PC when you fight against sexism? Is this your double standards again?

What it comes down to is you "having a strong dislike" for 23% of the world because of a handful of extremists. This is irrational hatred, and this is stupid.

Think of it any way you like, I'm not sure if you turned down or accepted the Islamophobic label, your posts were unclear, but I can assure you that in this thread alone, this is how you come across. History tells us that people just need a bit of education to stop unnecessary racism/sexism/homophobia. Draw the line, make the connection, and do a few google searches without your confirmation bias. Educate yourself on the 22.9999(recurring)% of the world that you slander on the daily.

Ditto.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Ditto.

Also look up a dictionary term for ditto.

[Brillopad]

[QUOTE=Withano;9206891]Also look up a dictionary term for ditto.[/QUOTE



Understand that defending sexist attitudes is sexist and therefore undermines your right to label others.

[Withano]

[QUOTE=Brillopad;9206892]

Originally Posted by Withano

Also look up a dictionary term for ditto.[/QUOTE



Understand that defending sexist attitudes is sexist and therefore undermines your right to label others.

Youre the one saying irrational hatred to groups of people is fine under some circumstances, and that is the closest anybody has got to sexism in this thread.

[Brillopad]

[QUOTE=Withano;9206893]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Youre the one saying irrational hatred to groups of people is fine under some circumstances, and that is the closest anybody has got to sexism in this thread.

There is nothing irrational about questioning sexist male attitudes and men that defend such attitudes.

Is is however pretty irrational to think that personal attacks will thwart such questioning. Most women are made of stronger stuff than that.

[Withano]

[QUOTE=Brillopad;9206897]

Originally Posted by Withano

There is nothing irrational about questioning sexist male attitudes and men that defend such attitudes.
.

I agree
By that logic, there is nothing irrational about questioning islamophobic peoples attitudes and people who defend such attitudes

So stop whining?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Because I happen to be one of the 50% they hate so much. Pretty relieved that as a woman I wasn't born in a Muslim country. There is an important principle at stake and the treatment of women by this religion should neither be ignored or defended.

I am surprised that you are surprised by that.

But they don't. The trouble is, you would have to live amongst them to understand just how wrong you are. I lived in the middle east. I worked with Muslims, I spoke their language, I cooked for and dined with Muslims and some of my long term dearest friends are Muslims. What I learnt is, most Muslims are no more religious than we are Christians. Whilst they are Muslim by name, many don't pray, go to the mosque or refrain from drinking alcohol and so on.

You can only recognise a Muslim woman by what she wears and yet you probably pass hundreds of Muslim women each day that don't wear hijab. They still consider themselves to be Muslim but have chosen not to wear a dress code because just like us Christians, religion doesn't play a big part in their life.

The one thing that struck me during my time there was how the men treasured the women and how the women ruled the home. I lived in Iran, a country where the religious police, mullah's and the revolutionary guards ruled over the land with an iron fist. I had many conversations with Muslim men who didn't want their wives, mothers and sisters to be so repressed and down trodden by their much hated repressive government.

I walked in their shoes and it didn't feel very religious at all. Most of them are just like you and me. Some bossed their husbands around whilst others were devoted couples but be sure of this, if a neighbourhood found a man was beating his wife, his sister or daughters, he would be ostracized and condemned by an entire community.

[Brillopad]

[QUOTE=Withano;9206900]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I agree
By that logic, there is nothing irrational about questioning islamophobic peoples attitudes and people who defend such attitudes

So stop whining?

If they are also defending sexist attititudes by doing so then there is. You have to question why they are unconcerned by Islam's misogynist views. You can't help but come up with an obvious answer.

So stop your whining and move on.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Decapitating people (and freedom) is something Muslims do - not advisable to confuse their behaviour with that of Westerners, or are we simply practicing double standards again.

It's not something Muslims do, it's something terrorists do. Or are we simply being bigoted again?

Hacking away at the constitution is what he is doing, this is a theoretical depiction of this.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Wrong again. I have no issues with most people from other countries I simply have issues with a certain regions ideology.

I think the term you may be looking for is 'islamophobic' despite your attempts to go round the houses and accuse me of something less acceptable.

You're feel comfortable in your view because you think Islamophobia is acceptable?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You're feel comfortable in your view because you think Islamophobia is acceptable?

What is islamophobia - it is a dislike of a religious ideology that practices misogyny and that as good as enslaves women.

Yes I dislike, dissapprove and question that belief system - stick whatever label on that you will.

As a human being, especially as a woman, shouldn't you also dislike and question it?

Women havie been fighting the good fight against misogyny and sexism for decades in this country despite there not being much support from many men and it seems that even in this so-called 'enlightened' age thinks haven't changed as much as they should have.

Many people seem less interested in supporting female equality than they do in expressing their support of a backward thinking and repugnant misogynistic ideology like Islam. In my book that is double standards and quite worrying.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If they are also defending sexist attititudes by doing so then there is. You have to question why they are unconcerned by Islam's misogynist views. You can't help but come up with an obvious answer.

So stop your whining and move on.

To give you credit, you'd make an excellent drinking game. 'Drink every time Brillopad contradicts herself' or 'drink every time Brillopad makes unfounded generalisations'. Would be brutal.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

To give you credit, you'd make an excellent drinking game. 'Drink every time Brillopad contradicts herself' or 'drink every time Brillopad makes unfounded generalisations'. Would be brutal.

As you are an expert on contradictions I might actually get round to giving that some thought, one day.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What is islamophobia - it is a dislike of a religious ideology that practices misogyny and that as good as enslaves women.

Yes I dislike, dissapprove and question that belief system - stick whatever label on that you will.

As a human being, especially as a woman, shouldn't you also dislike and question it?

Women havie been fighting the good fight against misogyny and sexism for decades in this country despite there not being much support from many men and it seems that even in this so-called 'enlightened' age thinks haven't changed as much as they should have.

Many people seem less interested in supporting female equality than they do in expressing their support of a backward thinking and repugnant misogynistic ideology like Islam. In my book that is double standards and quite worrying.

You can have your prejudice, but please don't suggest I adopt them to fit in with your skewed perception of what it means to live in a progressive society.

There are many cultures whose ideology jars with our own across the globe, your hysteria towards one religion is I suspect what is clouding your judgement.
Try to keep some perspective.

[Tom4784]

Few religions are kind to women, it seems strange to have such a vehement hatred of one in particular when most religions are guilty of misogyny because pretty much all religions are a product of their time.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As you are an expert on contradictions I might actually get round to giving that some thought, one day.

"I know you are but what am I"

Good one.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You can have your prejudice, but please don't suggest I adopt them to fit in with your skewed perception of what it means to live in a progressive society.

There are many cultures whose ideology jars with our own across the globe, your hysteria towards one religion is I suspect what is clouding your judgement.
Try to keep some perspective.

Yes there are but there are not so many that come here and walk around advertising the subjugation of women so blatantly, sticking two fingers up at the belief system of the country they choose to live in.

That is about as far removed from integration as you can get. I think many see that as an ominous sign for the future with good reason.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You can have your prejudice, but please don't suggest I adopt them to fit in with your skewed perception of what it means to live in a progressive society.

There are many cultures whose ideology jars with our own across the globe, your hysteria towards one religion is I suspect what is clouding your judgement.
Try to keep some perspective.

Who asked you to add to any prejudices you already have - I was just suggesting that offering more support to 50% of the population, of which you are one, wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Alf]

Vultures.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Who asked you to add to any prejudices you already have - I was just suggesting that offering more support to 50% of the population, of which you are one, wouldn't be a bad thing.

I don't have any prejudices though, do I have to act or react to things differently because I am a woman?....
That's an odd concept in this supposed age of equality we have in the west isn't it?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I don't have any prejudices though, do I have to act or react to things differently because I am a woman?....
That's an odd concept in this supposed age of equality we have in the west isn't it?

If you say so, but neither do I as my opinions are based on reason, unless you are trying to say that the Muslim religion does not treat its women like second class citizens - that it is not a misoygistic religion and that any such belief that it is is untrue.

I have read plenty of accounts from Muslim women that say they are, not to mention what we see with our own eyes - to mention but a few.

[Northern Monkey]

There is nothing wrong with being anti Islam or any other religion.I'm not a big fan of Scientology for instance.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

There is nothing wrong with being anti Islam or any other religion.I'm not a big fan of Scientology for instance.

I don't like the way Hasidic Jews treat their women or the way some versions of Islam repress theirs. I believe Catholic women have put up with centuries of nonsense or the bride burning that still goes on in Hindu societies should be talked about more.

That though, doesn't make me anti Catholic, Islam, Hinduism or Judaism, it just means I'm aware of the repression that can go on within these religions.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But they don't. The trouble is, you would have to live amongst them to understand just how wrong you are. I lived in the middle east. I worked with Muslims, I spoke their language, I cooked for and dined with Muslims and some of my long term dearest friends are Muslims. What I learnt is, most Muslims are no more religious than we are Christians. Whilst they are Muslim by name, many don't pray, go to the mosque or refrain from drinking alcohol and so on.

You can only recognise a Muslim woman by what she wears and yet you probably pass hundreds of Muslim women each day that don't wear hijab. They still consider themselves to be Muslim but have chosen not to wear a dress code because just like us Christians, religion doesn't play a big part in their life.

The one thing that struck me during my time there was how the men treasured the women and how the women ruled the home. I lived in Iran, a country where the religious police, mullah's and the revolutionary guards ruled over the land with an iron fist. I had many conversations with Muslim men who didn't want their wives, mothers and sisters to be so repressed and down trodden by their much hated repressive government.

I walked in their shoes and it didn't feel very religious at all. Most of them are just like you and me. Some bossed their husbands around whilst others were devoted couples but be sure of this, if a neighbourhood found a man was beating his wife, his sister or daughters, he would be ostracized and condemned by an entire community.

That is an interesting post and one I have no doubt you completely feel. I can't help but wonder though if your experience is truly representative of the majority of Muslims coming to the West. It may well be. But I am scepticle based on what I see around me on an almost daily basis.

I see an increasing number of Muslim women wearing burkas on our streets and beaches and whether it is worn as the woman's choice (something I find questionable due to indoctrination) or a requirement by her family I think it is an offensive thing to do in a country where female equality is not only valued but written into our equality laws.

I strongly believe if you choose to live in a country you must integrate and respect its culture and laws which many of the Muslims I see do not do. Maybe the Muslims you speak of are in the majority but if that is the case my issues are with those that are not and I believe these Muslims should not be welcomed into the West.

I also feel that certain conditions should be enforced such as the banning of religious clothing or other practices that praise the subjugation of women in public. I'm sure if anyone else walked around in teeshirts etc with words/ logos blatantly offensive to Muslims, any other religious group or gays, it would be classed as a hate crime and not tolerated - but somehow when the equality of those being undermined are only women they are expected to put up with it.