[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm going to attempt to put my view as simply as I can, I think you can be born male and female, and you ca choose to be male or female.

But for a male to become a man and a female to become a woman I think that happens via socialisation over the course of your life. So in short only males and females born into these genders can have the experience which shape us interpersonally and intrapersonally.

As said however people are identifying as trans younger and younger, so this would be new territory, they won't necessarily have that whole issue of living a large part of their lives as one gender before transitioning, therefore would I consider those 'women'?
I'm inclined to think not, as for me I just cannot separate the female to woman aspect and indicates a new term is warranted.

The problem, particularly for mature men, is, they normally have all the features of a man and so even if they do transition successfully, without cosmetic surgery they will always look like a cock in a frock. And then there's a double problem. No matter how much they transform their face and their body, they will still have the horrors of a masculine voice.

Do these masculine features and a deep voice make them less acceptable as women?