[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's a silly argument.

'You believe in something that's opposed to my views so I'm going to support terrible ideas and candidates to **** everything up and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!'

No, it's the fault of stupid bigots that are mad that they can't be as bigoted as they like without judgement and other ignorant people that are foolish enough to vote without knowing the facts.

People who voted for Trump as a protest are ****ing idiots because now he's laying waste to the Healthcare reform that they depend on and he'll likely give all the power back to the Insurance companies because he's a corporate ***** through and through. But hey, he made some people feel like their racism was validated so who cares about that?

Protest votes as a whole are ****ing moronic.

A whole lot less moronic than open borders.

The extreme left help create an extreme right, hardly rocket science.

[LeatherTrumpet]

The British press were 4.5 times more likely to mention Le Pen than her chief opponent, centrist frontrunner Emmanuel Macron, per an analysis of UK headlines by Buzzfeed News.

As a comparison, Trump got more than twice the amount of nightly news coverage that Hillary Clinton did.


All about the clicks: Buzzfeed found that the top 20 stories about Le Pen had more than 15k engagements on Facebook, while only the top story about Macron broke that number. Again, Trump did the same — getting 3 times as many page views per article than Clinton, according to parse.ly.

One headline that sums it all up from Foreign Policy: "Marine Le Pen Is Donald Trump Without the Crazy

https://www.axios.com/international-...307665918.html

[arista]

"centrist frontrunner Emmanuel Macron"

Yes LT
many say he or that Lady will win.


Its a slow slog to May elections
there , though.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's a silly argument.

'You believe in something that's opposed to my views so I'm going to support terrible ideas and candidates to **** everything up and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!'

No, it's the fault of stupid bigots that are mad that they can't be as bigoted as they like without judgement and other ignorant people that are foolish enough to vote without knowing the facts.

People who voted for Trump as a protest are ****ing idiots because now he's laying waste to the Healthcare reform that they depend on and he'll likely give all the power back to the Insurance companies because he's a corporate ***** through and through. But hey, he made some people feel like their racism was validated so who cares about that?

Protest votes as a whole are ****ing moronic.

I think you maybe slightly missing the point.Most people aren't so obsessive about left/right etc.I don't think they're starting to lean more right wing just to spite the left(although some undoubtedly will be) but because they see what a mess the current politicians are making.They feel let down and disenfranchised so they are reaching out for something new and different.After all if the current governments are already ****ing everything up then what's to lose?Things may actually change.
I think the far right is the wrong choice.I think "far" anything is the wrong choice tbh.
But with such a small choice and no real sensible centre ground options people have to make the best of what they have to work with.

Also politics seems to be like a tug of war.People get sick of the current state and lean the opposite way.
I think that may be a big part of why Corbyn got so many votes.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

A whole lot less moronic than open borders.

The extreme left help create an extreme right, hardly rocket science.

You're proving me right, I reckon as long as someone takes a stand against immigration you'd probably support them regardless of their other policies and that's the problem with the voters. Trump is pretty much cancer to anyone who isn't a millionaire but he's got a lot of support from the working and middle classes despite the fact that it was obvious he'd do nothing but **** on them from a great height, they didn't pay attention because they were all like 'Yay! He's getting rid of Mexicans and Muslims!'

It's a similar story with Brexit, immigration became the number 1 issue that decided the vote although immigration won't even be affected either way.

The alt right has come about in opposition of a world that's growing more tolerant, to blame the left for them is moronic, nobody made the alt right racist or bigoted, that's on them so stop making excuses and blaming other people for a bigot's opinion.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're proving me right, I reckon as long as someone takes a stand against immigration you'd probably support them regardless of their other policies and that's the problem with the voters. Trump is pretty much cancer to anyone who isn't a millionaire but he's got a lot of support from the working and middle classes despite the fact that it was obvious he'd do nothing but **** on them from a great height, they didn't pay attention because they were all like 'Yay! He's getting rid of Mexicans and Muslims!'

It's a similar story with Brexit, immigration became the number 1 issue that decided the vote although immigration won't even be affected either way.

The alt right has come about in opposition of a world that's growing more tolerant, to blame the left for them is moronic, nobody made the alt right racist or bigoted, that's on them so stop making excuses and blaming other people for a bigot's opinion.

Bigot = a person who is intolerant to people with different opinions, so therefore that definition applies as much to you as to those you accuse, so you are really not in a position to keep throwing the word around willy nilly.

As for your predictions on future immigration I prefer to listen to the experts not those trying hard to convince themselves as well as others. Time will tell.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I think you maybe slightly missing the point.Most people aren't so obsessive about left/right etc.I don't think they're starting to lean more right wing just to spite the left(although some undoubtedly will be) but because they see what a mess the current politicians are making.They feel let down and disenfranchised so they are reaching out for something new and different.After all if the current governments are already ****ing everything up then what's to lose?Things may actually change.
I think the far right is the wrong choice.I think "far" anything is the wrong choice tbh.
But with such a small choice and no real sensible centre ground options people have to make the best of what they have to work with.

Also politics seems to be like a tug of war.People get sick of the current state and lean the opposite way.
I think that may be a big part of why Corbyn got so many votes.

There's not much of a point to miss, I was responding to Brillo's fatally flawed logic that the left are responsible for the Alt right movement which is just plain silly. the Alt Right came about because racists and bigots were mad that they couldn't be as racist and bigoted as they could before without judgement. That's the long and short of it.

In the case of the US election there was a centre ground nominee but she didn't win because people ignored the warning signs that came with Trump and voted for him because of his stance on immigration. Trump is an extremist and he was the only extremist candidate of the two, Hillary was anything but a member of the extreme left so I reject that there were no 'centre ground options' in that case. People CHOSE the extremist option because they want to believe that taking a stance against people of different skin colour to theirs' will fix their problems.

I don't think that Corbyn is comparable as a protest vote really, Labour is the Tory's only real opposition so if Corbyn brings it back from the brink it'll likely be because Labour (especially under Corbyn) will likely defend public services from privatisation and plus Labour has a history of treating the working class better than the Tories.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Bigot = a person who is intolerant to people with different opinions, so therefore that definition applies as much to you as to those you accuse, so you are really not in a position to keep throwing the word around willy nilly.

As for your predictions on future immigration I prefer to listen to the experts not those trying hard to convince themselves as well as others. Time will tell.

Ah, that tired old argument. It was a stupid argument then and it still is now. To accuse me of bigotry is truly desperate and laughable.

You'll only listen to experts when they'll tell you what you want to hear which is never. The leavers certainly didn't listen to the experts when it came to Brexit....in fact I remember the Brexit camp saying that they were 'tired' of experts (more like tired of not being told what they want to hear).

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ah, that tired old argument. It was a stupid argument then and it still is now. To accuse me of bigotry is truly desperate and laughable.

You'll only listen to experts when they'll tell you what you want to hear which is never. The leavers certainly didn't listen to the experts when it came to Brexit....in fact I remember the Brexit camp saying that they were 'tired' of experts (more like tired of not being told what they want to hear).

That's the definition and you are clearly intolerant of people with different opinions. You can't argue with the dictionary.

What experts on Brexit - there weren't any.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That's the definition and you are clearly intolerant of people with different opinions. You can't argue with the dictionary.

What experts on Brexit - there weren't any.

How am I intolerant of other people's opinions? My entire mantra in serious debates is basically that anyone can have an opinion and anyone can disagree with that opinion. I've literally said that a thousand times. My opinion is that both the Brexit and the recent US election were decided by ignorance, that's not being intolerant of other opinions, that's simply having my own. The only intolerant person here is you given how hard you're trying to shut my opinion down. Brillo being proven to be a hypocrite once again *takes a shot.*

There were plenty of experts of all walks of life who were critical of Brexit, once again you're proving me correct because you obviously didn't pay attention to what the experts were saying in regards to Brexit when it isn't something you want to hear.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

How am I intolerant of other people's opinions? My entire mantra in serious debates is basically that anyone can have an opinion and anyone can disagree with that opinion. I've literally said that a thousand times. My opinion is that both the Brexit and the recent US election were decided by ignorance, that's not being intolerant of other opinions, that's simply having my own. The only intolerant person here is you given how hard you're trying to shut my opinion down. Brillo being proven to be a hypocrite once again *takes a shot.*

There were plenty of experts of all walks of life who were critical of Brexit, once again you're proving me correct because you obviously didn't pay attention to what the experts were saying in regards to Brexit when it isn't something you want to hear.

We are all entitled to our opinions but you often get quite aggressive in your comebacks which demonstrates intolerance. You may well be able to say the same about me but I am not the one continually calling others bigots.

There were 'experts' on both sides in the Brexit debate so at the end of the day it comes down to opinion and who you agree with. There is no defined right or wrong in this.

Personally I am still firmly of the opinion that long term Brexit and independence from Europe and all its controlling rules and regulations will be good for Britain.

Despite your protestations you have proved nothing.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We are all entitled to our opinions but you often get quite aggressive in your comebacks which demonstrates intolerance. You may well be able to say the same about me but I am not the one continually calling others bigots.

There were 'experts' on both sides in the Brexit debate so at the end of the day it comes down to opinion and who you agree with. There is no defined right or wrong in this.

Personally I am still firmly of the opinion that long term Brexit and independence from Europe and all its controlling rules and regulations will be good for Britain.

Despite your protestations you have proved nothing.

It's Serious Debates, love, I'm debating. Intolerance is intolerance, I've not been intolerant of anyone else's opinions, you are allowed to have them and I'm allowed to disagree. You call me intolerant yet you try to shut my opinion down regularly because it doesn't suit you. Once again you are showing that you are strangely sensitive to people using the word 'bigot' then WHY they are using it.

Oh? Last post you said this 'What experts on Brexit - there weren't any.' and now you are saying there were experts on both sides? What's the truth? Do you even know?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's Serious Debates, love, I'm debating. Intolerance is intolerance, I've not been intolerant of anyone else's opinions, you are allowed to have them and I'm allowed to disagree. You call me intolerant yet you try to shut my opinion down regularly because it doesn't suit you. Once again you are showing that you are strangely sensitive to people using the word 'bigot' then WHY they are using it.

Oh? Last post you said this 'What experts on Brexit - there weren't any.' and now you are saying there were experts on both sides? What's the truth? Do you even know?

Supposed 'experts' - hence the inverted commas. Thought that was clear love. I know that I know thanks.

There you go with your aggressive sexist put-downs. I'm not sensitive to them but will point out double standards when I see them especially when directed at me.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Supposed 'experts' - hence the inverted commas. Thought that was clear love. I know that I know thanks.

There you go with your aggressive sexist put-downs. I'm not sensitive to them but will point out double standards when I see them especially when directed at me.

I love it when you try to paint me as sexist when I'm probably more of a feminist than you are.

As for the experts point, it was only the remain side that had spoken out about experts simply because most of them thought that Brexit was a bad idea. Your whole generic statement which is basically a desperate attempt to regain footing doesn't change the fact that the Remain camp encouraged voters to disregard experts and their research because it didn't suit their agenda.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I love it when you try to paint me as sexist when I'm probably more of a feminist than you are.

As for the experts point, it was only the remain side that had spoken out about experts simply because most of them thought that Brexit was a bad idea. Your whole generic statement which is basically a desperate attempt to regain footing doesxn't change the fact that the Remain camp encouraged voters to disregard experts and their research because it didn't suit their agenda.

You amount of times you throw out words such as love, darling , dear etc when in disagreement with female posters suggests to me you aren't as feminist as you like to think you are.

Why would I need to regain footing in this argument - as far as I can see you haven't provided any arguments that would require any loss of footing in any argument against your arguments.

You have an agenda, I have an agenda, we all have agendas - and we all argue accordingly. So just a pointless jibe that proves nothing.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You amount of times you throw out words such as love, darling , dear etc when in disagreement with female posters suggests to me you aren't as feminist as you like to think you are.

Why would I need to regain footing in this argument - as far as I can see you haven't provided any arguments that would require any loss of footing in any argument against your arguments.

You have an agenda, I have an agenda, we all have agendas - and we all argue accordingly. So just a pointless jibe that proves nothing.

Except I call male members that as well, you've tried to paint me as sexist before and it didn't work because the accusation is hilariously wrong. Try again to shut my opinion down with faux outrage that you try to use like a weapon to beat others with . It's quite fun to show you how wrong you are.

I've provided arguments, you just don't respond to them because, like I said before, you don't acknowledge anything that you don't want to hear. You ignored the fact that it was the Remain side that said to ignore the experts and that's just the latest example.

Yes, everyone has an agenda, I never said differently so, at this point, I'm not even sure you know what you are talking about. Like I said before, it's not the agenda but the fact that the remain camp encouraged voters to ignore things that didn't suit their agenda. You should honestly read posts twice before responding, it's not the first time you've misread my posts and made an argument on what you think I've said instead of what I actually said.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Except I call male members that as well, you've tried to paint me as sexist before and it didn't work because the accusation is hilariously wrong. Try again to shut my opinion down with faux outrage that you try to use like a weapon to beat others with . It's quite fun to show you how wrong you are.

I've provided arguments, you just don't respond to them because, like I said before, you don't acknowledge anything that you don't want to hear. You ignored the fact that it was the Remain side that said to ignore the experts and that's just the latest example.

Yes, everyone has an agenda, I never said differently so, at this point, I'm not even sure you know what you are talking about. Like I said before, it's not the agenda but the fact that the remain camp encouraged voters to ignore things that didn't suit their agenda. You should honestly read posts twice before responding, it's not the first time you've misread my posts and made an argument on what you think I've said instead of what I actually said.

Quite Frankly I think your whole post makes no sense and comes across as a pretty desperate attempt to convince yourself as well as me that you know what you are talking about. I remain unconvinced.

For the record quantity does not necessarily equate to quality.

[Livia]

I don't support Marine le Penn. But I have to say this... she takes more hysterical bullsh1t on this forum and in the wider world than all the despot African leaders who say EXACTLY the same stuff about white Europeans, only worse.

[Alf]

She's not very sexy is she? and there's a very good chance that she'll smell of onions.

Not the sort of leader we want to see, but she'll take the French people out of the pit that is the EU, and that's reason enough right now.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Quite Frankly I think your whole post makes no sense and comes across as a pretty desperate attempt to convince yourself as well as me that you know what you are talking about. I remain unconvinced.

For the record quantity does not necessarily equate to quality.

Ah, the ol' Wombai strategy of 'I know you are but what am I?'

You say that I'm not speaking sense but your 'quality over quantity' line has literally no bearing on this discussion.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't support Marine le Penn. But I have to say this... she takes more hysterical bullsh1t on this forum and in the wider world than all the despot African leaders who say EXACTLY the same stuff about white Europeans, only worse.

Again, you keep bringing this argument up despite the fact you get the same answer every ****ing time.

Comparing a democratic and generally free country potentially getting a totalitarian leader to the latest despot ruler of a dictatorship run country is a bad comparison. It's more worrying that our neighbours and allies are becoming extremist than the fact that some African countries that we aren't allied with and can't do anything about are ruled by a dictatorship.

It's like saying that you can't complain about Trump because Kim Jong Un is a thing.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Alf

She's not very sexy is she? and there's a very good chance that she'll smell of onions.

Not the sort of leader we want to see, but she'll take the French people out of the pit that is the EU, and that's reason enough right now.

I don't see how she can take France out of the EU. The euro currency is a real sticking point. If France chooses to walk away from its enormous debt, that will throw all the surrounding countries into financial meltdown. If it doesn't walk away from its euro debt, how one earth could France financially survive? borrowing on the euro insured countries like France would have enormous difficulty pulling out of the union.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, you keep bringing this argument up despite the fact you get the same answer every ****ing time.

Comparing a democratic and generally free country potentially getting a totalitarian leader to the latest despot ruler of a dictatorship run country is a bad comparison. It's more worrying that our neighbours and allies are becoming extremist than the fact that some African countries that we aren't allied with and can't do anything about are ruled by a dictatorship.

It's like saying that you can't complain about Trump because Kim Jong Un is a thing.

Since when has your opinion been elevated to an answer.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Since when has your opinion been elevated to an answer.

You are not making any sense. Stop trying to desperately score points and come up with a coherent reply if you disagree with what I'm saying.