[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You don't know much about our recent colonial/ missionary past do you?

I'm not so much interested in historical events as the here and now. We can't change the past.

Neither am I so insecure that I believe we should forever feel apologetic about the alleged actions of past generations and certainly not to the point of the destruction of our own identity and way of life - that fragile belief didn't get the Germans very far did it?

[Beso]

Bin laden lives!!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I'm not so much interested in historical events as the here and now. We can't change the past.

Neither am I so insecure that I believe we should forever feel apologetic about the alleged actions of past generations and certainly not to the point of the destruction of our own identity and way of life - that fragile belief didn't get the Germans very far did it?

How very convenient for you to ignore our past as murdering immigrants.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How very convenient for you to ignore our past as murdering immigrants.

Is that how you see yourself? It certainly isn't how I see myself. I fail to see what that has to do with current issues.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Is that how you see yourself? It certainly isn't how I see myself. I fail to see what that has to do with current issues.

No, you have blocked that right out haven't you? It wasn't that long ago, think South Africa, Ireland the gulf and Libya it could be forgiven if we didn't keep doing it.

You brought up assimilating into other cultures... Have we ever done that?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I'm not so much interested in historical events as the here and now. We can't change the past.

Neither am I so insecure that I believe we should forever feel apologetic about the alleged actions of past generations and certainly not to the point of the destruction of our own identity and way of life - that fragile belief didn't get the Germans very far did it?

How can you say you don’t care about history when the history we are talking about is so recent? If history doesn’t matter, then does 9/11 not matter? Before 9/11 there was relative peace in the Middle East and the countries that are now in chaos were stable regions with long term leaders and relatively good economies. For the past 14 years we have played our hand in the upheaval and the deaths of millions of Muslims and we are now seeing the consequences of that involvement.

Its fundamentally important to understand what these repercussions are about because if we don’t, we may as well just fall down the rabbit hole where we can wallow in our own fear and ignorance.

You recently tried to deal me a low blow by suggesting, (tongue in cheek) that I was a terrorist sympathiser. Those words told me two things, 1) that you don't know or don't care about the atrocities we have committed and 2) Unlike me, who's sympathies lie with both the innocent westerners and Middle East civilians who get caught up in the political backlash, you have little sympathy for the later.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

How can you say you don’t care about history when the history we are talking about is so recent? If history doesn’t matter, then does 9/11 not matter? Before 9/11 there was relative peace in the Middle East and the countries that are now in chaos were stable regions with long term leaders and relatively good economies. For the past 14 years we have played our hand in the upheaval and the deaths of millions of Muslims and we are now seeing the consequences of that involvement.

Its fundamentally important to understand what these repercussions are about because if we don’t, we may as well just fall down the rabbit hole where we can wallow in our own fear and ignorance.

You recently tried to deal me a low blow by suggesting, (tongue in cheek) that I was a terrorist sympathiser. Those words told me two things, 1) that you don't know or don't care about the atrocities we have committed and 2) Unlike me, who's sympathies lie with both the innocent westerners and Middle East civilians who get caught up in the political backlash, you have little sympathy for the later.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

How can you say you don’t care about history when the history we are talking about is so recent? If history doesn’t matter, then does 9/11 not matter? Before 9/11 there was relative peace in the Middle East and the countries that are now in chaos were stable regions with long term leaders and relatively good economies. For the past 14 years we have played our hand in the upheaval and the deaths of millions of Muslims and we are now seeing the consequences of that involvement.

Its fundamentally important to understand what these repercussions are about because if we don’t, we may as well just fall down the rabbit hole where we can wallow in our own fear and ignorance.

You recently tried to deal me a low blow by suggesting, (tongue in cheek) that I was a terrorist sympathiser. Those words told me two things, 1) that you don't know or don't care about the atrocities we have committed and 2) Unlike me, who's sympathies lie with both the innocent westerners and Middle East civilians who get caught up in the political backlash, you have little sympathy for the later.

If you read the post properly you will see that the poster talks of our past 'as murdering immigrants' which clearly refers to historical events of long ago.

As for more recent events, what I don't believe is that we can ignore or fail to act when terrorist acts such as 9/11 take place on Western soil for fear of future reprisals - do you suggest we just allow terrorists to 'win', hope they will just go away or just give in. If we do many more people will die in the long-term.

Mass Immigration is not any kind of solution as it only serves to allow more terrorists access to the West creating more danger for all of us us as we then have to fear attack from home grown terrorists - the enemy within - as well.

The West has every right to protect itself from terrorism.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If you read the post properly you will see that the poster talks of our past 'as murdering immigrants' which clearly refers to historical events of long ago.

It doesn't you've chosen to look at it that way as it gives you an excuse to keep those blinkers firmly affixed.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It doesn't you've chosen to look at it that way as it gives you an excuse to keep those blinkers firmly affixed.

As long as they aren't as firmly fixed as yours.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As long as they aren't as firmly fixed as yours.

Out of interest what's your opinion on this?...

'The Allied Powers were aware of the scale of the Jewish Holocaust two-and-a-half years earlier than is generally assumed, and had even prepared war crimes indictments against Adolf Hitler and his top Nazi commanders.

Newly accessed material from the United Nations – not seen for around 70 years – shows that as early as December 1942, the US, UK and Soviet governments were aware that at least two million Jews had been murdered and a further five million were at risk of being killed, and were preparing charges. Despite this, the Allied Powers did very little to try and rescue or provide sanctuary to those in mortal danger.

Indeed, in March 1943, Viscount Cranborne, a minister in the war cabinet of Winston Churchill, said the Jews should not be considered a special case and that the British Empire was already too full of refugees to offer a safe haven to any more. '

That was very naughty of us wasn't it? and Winston was such a hero and all that :/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7688036.html