[the truth]

Its the council who should have been overseeing this, the laws are set and the council have failed to apply them properly

[Withano]

Originally Posted by y.winter

79 confirmed now.
It takes way too long.

It really does. I would really love an estimate so I dont have to keep waking up to see an unexpected change, but I dont think any professional is willing to give one... which I understand. Just wanna know how much long the number will rise for..

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I hate saying this but the evidemce i have seen and gathered is.pointing to poor fire fighting and the reactions needed.

Oh no you don't... you're not going to pass the buck to the men and women who risk their lives trying to get people out of burning buildings. Buildings like this are expected to have fireproof concrete floor plates that adequately retain fires within tall buildings. This building did have floor plates but during the re-furb they were not extended outward to meet the cladding.

Fires often happen in high rise buildings but they don't normally go up like a burning chimney. The only exit point was black with darkness because there was no fire escape lighting, so its no surprise residents were asked to remain in their flats. Oh wait a minute though... there was fire escape lighting, but guess what, it didn't work! Mainly, the batteries needed to be renewed, and they weren't. The reason given was that the allocated budget would not stretch to their replacement!

[DemolitionRed]

Why has Boris not been to visit both in his role as a London MP but also as the former Mayor of London between 2008 & 2016 when the work was approved and the bulk of it carried out?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Really?... I see many apologists, may couldn't have seen the victims, it wasn't SAFE :/ the little old queen went! So that's rubbish.

The govt are culpable they facilitated the council in hiring these cowboys by scaling back on regulations and failing to implement recommendations from failures in the past..Why? MONEY, they were stockpiling millions claiming that improvements were being made cutting corners and gerry building so they could have their £274 million nest egg... Only Kensington lost it's conservative seat didn't it so that was exposed.

What's the Queen going got do with anything, Jeremy went as well, as far as I know being signed off by building regs is still a thing, so that is why we will have to wait for the enquiry to see why they got their job so catastrophically wrong

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I saw a video of the firemen tackling the original fire..they were outside the property firing water up at the window but it was hitting below the flames which were climbing upwards...i cant find the video anywhere now...funny that. Unfortunatly it looked like a botched effort at fire figuting.

I have no words... I have seen some ****ing stupid posts on this forum, this one takes the crown.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I saw a video of the firemen tackling the original fire..they were outside the property firing water up at the window but it was hitting below the flames which were climbing upwards...i cant find the video anywhere now...funny that. Unfortunatly it looked like a botched effort at fire figuting.

That's how you fight a fire.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The company that owns that building and the government agency that okayed it despite not being up to scratch when it comes to Health and Safety are to blame.

It's an ALMO, a managing agent. The relationship between the ALMO and the council is that of agent and principal. That means the tenants legal relationship is, as always, with the council, and the council is liable for whatever their agent does or fails to do. I know what the media are saying but its an error to describe the agent as the landlord. They're simply not, the council is.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The body count has been raised

Grenfell Tower fire: police raise death toll to 79
Metropolitan police say five people have been formally identified as having died in tower block blaze, and 74 are missing presumed dead

I am really confused there were 120 flats over 24 floors that equates to say 550 residents ... 79 are dead, 74 taken to hospital and 74 missing... Where is everyone else then? :/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-79-police-say

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/where-...there-6707624/

Yes it doesn't add up at all does it. All seeming a bit weird now.

[smudgie]

More people than originally thought must have escaped the fire.
If they are saying 74 missing presumed dead (not identified yet) and 5 identified then that would account for the 79 estimate.
Maybe it will go up if people have not been reported missing.
Hopefully this will mean that so many more people than was originally thought of have survived.

[Vicky.]

Aren't the protests about the council refusing to say whos actually accounted for? Thats what I got out of it all anyway. If thats actually happening then it seems rather sinister that they won't confirm who is alive and missing.

Honestly, I am trying to avoid this topic so have only caught bits and pieces on the news. Everytime it comes on I turn over because the thought of being stuck in there is just horrific :S

[Crimson Dynamo]

why is their not a list of residents

take the list and tick off the ones not seen since the fire

mark them dead


or am i missing something apart from subletting?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

why is their not a list of residents

take the list and tick off the ones not seen since the fire

mark them dead


or am i missing something apart from subletting?

Yes, exactly. Anyone still 'missing' realistically is dead. If they are on holiday or something their families can tell the council this surely?

Also this 5.5k per resident, last I heard it was a 5m fund? 120 properties. Doesn't that work out closer to 50k per flat?! Say 4 people in each, thats 12.5k not 5.5. Which does sound very high but I guess theres hotels and such to pay for whilst housing is sorted. And this is assuming everyone got out safe. Which a lot didn't...so this 'fund' isn't true? 5.5k will help of course. But it will soon be eaten by hotel bills given they don't seem to be being housed anywhere...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes, exactly. Anyone still 'missing' realistically is dead. If they are on holiday or something their families can tell the council this surely?

Also this 5.5k per resident, last I heard it was a 5m fund? 120 properties. Doesn't that work out closer to 50k per flat?! Say 4 people in each, thats 12.5k not 5.5. Which does sound very high but I guess theres hotels and such to pay for whilst housing is sorted. And this is assuming everyone got out safe. Which a lot didn't...so this 'fund' isn't true? 5.5k will help of course. But it will soon be eaten by hotel bills given they don't seem to be being housed anywhere...

What about insurance too?Surely those who are not insured will get all their stuff replaced aswell?

Infact the insurance companies will probably contest any claims if this was due to negligence

[Kizzy]

In all honesty they would have a better chance of low level housing ( as opposed to high rise) further north :/

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That's how you fight a fire.

No. This wasnt.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I have no words... I have seen some ****ing stupid posts on this forum, this one takes the crown.

Shut up until you see rhe video..good luck with that cause its been taken down off the internet.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes, exactly. Anyone still 'missing' realistically is dead. If they are on holiday or something their families can tell the council this surely?

Also this 5.5k per resident, last I heard it was a 5m fund? 120 properties. Doesn't that work out closer to 50k per flat?! Say 4 people in each, thats 12.5k not 5.5. Which does sound very high but I guess theres hotels and such to pay for whilst housing is sorted. And this is assuming everyone got out safe. Which a lot didn't...so this 'fund' isn't true? 5.5k will help of course. But it will soon be eaten by hotel bills given they don't seem to be being housed anywhere...

Originally Posted by Cherie

There is 5 million sllocated and more if needed, the 5,500 is an initial payment, they will get 500.00 in cash and 5,000 into their bank sccounts so they can buy the essentials, once they have been rehomed more money will be made available

Seriously Vicky you only had to go back a page or a quick google to find the answer

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Seriously Vicky you only had to go back a page or a quick google to find the answer

This is whats being claimed. I will believe it when I see it tbh..not really any reason to do it that way is there? Have seen videos today of survivers apparently being given a tenner from this fund. So many videos. So much anger. Can't really avoid it anymore even though it sticks in my head what the **** would you do if you were stuck at the top :S

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Aren't the protests about the council refusing to say whos actually accounted for? Thats what I got out of it all anyway. If thats actually happening then it seems rather sinister that they won't confirm who is alive and missing.

Honestly, I am trying to avoid this topic so have only caught bits and pieces on the news. Everytime it comes on I turn over because the thought of being stuck in there is just horrific :S

The protest are about the inability of the council to actually do anything positive, one woman and her daughter have had to move hotel 3 time, I can't say that I am surprised, a lot of people seem to be unable or unwilling to do the job they are paid to do, the council have been abysmal, they haven't even organised how to get the food/clothing donations to the victims, a simple enough task you would have thought

[Cherie]

According to the newly elected Labour MP some survivors have been sleeping in cars and in parks as they can't access the help they need and many more are still sleeping in a sports hall

[arista]

its now sadly 79 dead
http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-t...to-79-10920100

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Cherie

According to the newly elected Labour MP some survivors have been sleeping in cars and in parks as they can't access the help they need and many more are still sleeping in a sports hall

Yeah. Some have have been relocated out of London too and were pretty much told if they turned it down then they would be registered as voluntary homeless. The way they have been treated is sickening.

[Shaun]

This panorama on bbc1

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

No. This wasnt.

So you're saying you know how to fight fires better than highly trained (and they are very highly trained) fire fighters?