[sungrass]

Agree = cant stand him "your not intelligent enough for me to talk to" -thats proper mean girl and getting his gang to ghost her and ostracise her when she is just 21 - terrible role model for his son.

[Withano]

What she said wasnt bad... but I think she intended it to be.

[Cal.]

They seem to just hear the 'son' or 'daughter' bit and it takes them to another level.

[bots]

She poked an angry bear with a stick until it got a reaction. Simple as that.

[Cal.]

As Lotan said himself, if you can't take the heat get out the bloody kitchen!

[Vanessa]

It was out of order.

[Garfie]

In the diary room BB said the following to Lotan: "Big Brother has also spoken to you previously about isolating and intimidating behaviour, particularly towards women.....Last night you threw your drink angrily at Isabelle, Chanelle and Hannah and then threw the empty bottle across the room. Later in the bedroom and then in the Diary Room, you used threatening language about a fellow housemate....."

The fact that BB has mentioned that they have already spoken to Lotan about 'isolating and intimidating behaviour, particularly towards women' gives us a clear idea of how he has been behaving in general and shows this was not a one-off. If he has been constantly doing that to Isabelle, she obviously got to the point where she'd had enough when she made her comment. We saw him trying to belittle and humiliate her during the bottle game and this has been ongoing as BB mentions.

I think there was a massive over-reaction to what Isabelle said. She has not said he is a bad father or that his son would be ashamed of him. She has merely said he is a bad role model, and is therefore commenting on his behaviour in the house and not on his parenting.

BB's comments and the statement from The Dreamboys show that Isabelle is not the only one thinking he is a poor role model.

Lotan has behaved appallingly and pushed Isabelle to the point of making that comment. No-one is to blame for what happened to Lotan but Lotan himself.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

She poked an angry bear with a stick until it got a reaction. Simple as that.

I think you've got this the wrong way round. Lotan poked a bear until he got a reaction, through his constant demeaning and condescending comments towards Isabelle.

During the game, Chanelle objected several times to the group, led by Lotan, repeatedly picking on Isabelle. Why should she sit there and take it, without reacting!?

Lotan provoked her and pushed her too far and got what he deserved.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Retaliating by bringing his parenting and that into it though IS pretty low, the whole house (including those who dislike Lotan) agreed and even Isabelle herself agreed in the garden.

Most of this foprum would agree if it wasn't Lotan tbh

I remember absolute hell on when someone said something about McCleans kid that was along the same lines as this...'BB has nothing to do with parenting' and so on.

Exactly this Vicky,people are so quick when it's someone they like to skit over a remark that could offend someone, it may seem harmless to those who haven't got children ,but I would have been offended at that too as your kids should not even enter a persons head to have a go at you, and it was the Kim and Nicola spat people got up in arms about when Nicola said Kim had insulted her parenting and others saying she hadn't ,and of course had it not been Lotan,people would have thought it was wrong too.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Cal.

They seem to just hear the 'son' or 'daughter' bit and it takes them to another level.

Do you have children ? If not ,when you do and someone says anything remotely negative about them or you regarding parenting,then you may understand Lotan being hurt, if you haven't got kids ,you wont really get it.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by TomC

Lotan totally overreacted. It's like the Rebecca daughter thing, she didn't say anything about his son - she just said he was a poor role model. WHich he is. He was being ****ing vile to her before it all kicked off

As I said ,If you haven't got kids you wont understand why Lotans feelings were hurt,it's just a throw away line to most but to a parent it is personal,I myself would have got annoyed over that,Lotan reacted wrongly, but I understand why, and really Isabell has some neck to talk about role models.she needs to clean her own doorstep before she comments on others.

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Do you have children ? If not ,when you do and someone says anything remotely negative about them or you regarding parenting,then you may understand Lotan being hurt, if you haven't got kids ,you wont really get it.

Don't really understand how my posts warrants this but whatever.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Cal.

Don't really understand how my posts warrants this but whatever.

Just asking a simple question as people seem to think what she said was no big deal,but you don't have to answer

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Just asking a simple question as people seem to think what she said was no big deal,but you don't have to answer

I didn't say that I said I think when people hear their loved one's name ('son' or 'daughter') it takes them to another level anger wise regardless of what was actually said. Like when Joe blew up as soon as he heard his daughter being mentioned by Rebecca.

[Cal.]

You would probably be the same if you were arguing with someone and you heard them mention your children regardless of what they actually said. I wasn't being negative.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Cal.

You would probably be the same if you were arguing with someone and you heard them mention your children regardless of what they actually said. I wasn't being negative.

I know Cal,I was just pointing out if you have kids that kind of remark is offensive, you are protective over your kids and don't want them brought into anything so negative.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

As I said ,If you haven't got kids you wont understand why Lotans feelings were hurt,it's just a throw away line to most but to a parent it is personal,I myself would have got annoyed over that,Lotan reacted wrongly, but I understand why, and really Isabell has some neck to talk about role models.she needs to clean her own doorstep before she comments on others.

Yes, we all take it personally, of course we do. However, they had both been going at each other tit for tat for a couple of days, Raph had been filling his vipers with bad thoughts knowing full well it would wind already aggressive people up. It was a cumulation of pokes that made him lose his temper in the end

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by TomC

Lotan totally overreacted. It's like the Rebecca daughter thing, she didn't say anything about his son - she just said he was a poor role model. WHich he is. He was being ****ing vile to her before it all kicked off

You keep thinking that tom, Me and the rest of moral britain might disagree.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by sungrass

Agree = cant stand him "your not intelligent enough for me to talk to" -thats proper mean girl and getting his gang to ghost her and ostracise her when she is just 21 - terrible role model for his son.

Yeah exactly all that is awful behaviour and she was pointing that out to him. He doesn't deserve her respect, what she said was accurate and well deserved.

You're not being a good role model for your son means The way you're treating me isn't acceptable behaviour She said **** all about his son

I can't believe after all the things he did and said to her that people are saying what she said was worse, it's baffling tbh

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think drink played a large role and also its difficult for younger people who dont have children and indeed its not that long since they were children to realise how personally someone who has children will take a negative comment.

I am sure that when Isabelle has children of her own she will look back at the incident a little differently?

Also I think that Lotan feels bad that he has split up with the childs mum and is hyper sensitive about being a bad parent?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think drink played a large role and also its difficult for younger people who dont have children and indeed its not that long since they were children to realise how personally someone who has children will take a negative comment.

I am sure that when Isabelle has children of her own she will look back at the incident a little differently?

Also I think that Lotan feels bad that he has split up with the childs mum and is hyper sensitive about being a bad parent?

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah exactly all that is awful behaviour and she was pointing that out to him. He doesn't deserve her respect, what she said was accurate and well deserved.

You're not being a good role model for your son means The way you're treating me isn't acceptable behaviour She said **** all about his son

I can't believe after all the things he did and said to her that people are saying what she said was worse, it's baffling tbh

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think drink played a large role and also its difficult for younger people who dont have children and indeed its not that long since they were children to realise how personally someone who has children will take a negative comment.

I am sure that when Isabelle has children of her own she will look back at the incident a little differently?

Also I think that Lotan feels bad that he has split up with the childs mum and is hyper sensitive about being a bad parent?

I have children and I think the way Lotan was behaving towards Isabelle was horrendous. Infact as a mother of a girl only 4 years younger than Isabelle I absolutely agree with her and would be horrified if someone (especially someone who is a parent) was treating my child like that. Imagine someone treating his child like that, he'd be livid. He is an awful role model for his son. He may be a good, caring dad in other ways but he's setting a terrible example to him if that's the way he treats young girls

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I have children and I think the way Lotan was behaving towards Isabelle was horrendous. Infact as a mother of a girl only 4 years younger than Isabelle I absolutely agree with her and would be horrified if someone (especially someone who is a parent) was treating my child like that. Imagine someone treating his child like that, he'd be livid. He is an awful role model for his son. He may be a good, caring dad in other ways but he's setting a terrible example to him if that's the way he treats young girls

Yes I understand your point but I am also mindful that this is a reality tv show game where the whole situation is set up to brew conflict and make people behave perhaps not as they would normally and so I can in some way understand why the situation happened without necessary also condoning it

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes I understand your point but I am also mindful that this is a reality tv show game where the whole situation is set up to brew conflict and make people behave perhaps not as they would normally and so I can in some way understand why the situation happened without necessary also condoning it

Yeah I do get that but it seemed like even in normal situations during the day when (I assume) no drink was involved the way he spoke to Isabelle was really awful, telling her she's irrelevant and not allowed to speak and calling her stupid etc