[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Any woman behaving like that is no feminist, they're a misandrist.

This..if someone was genuinely laughing at the high rates of suicide among male people then they are hiding behind feminism whilst just being a dickhead misandrist.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

she was laughing and mocking male issues being debated 8ncluding male suicide which no one is doing a damn thing about its times times the female rate and gets 50 times less resources. blaming men is a cop out they have no one to talk to. men are ignored and mucked and the funding isn't there

Well no its really not. But I shouldn't really expect any other answer I guess. Blaming women is always the way isn't it.

[the truth]

I'll post video links on that vile man hating bigot later not to forget sHaron gobs hire is Bourne laughing about a man bleeding to death after a wOman sliced his scrotum off

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

They're not as publicised though.

They're not used as much neither.

If somebody wants help they'll normally Google it anyway.

I'm just finding this as yet another silly attempt at victimising men just because.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

marsh is wrong the main national number does exclude all men. the seperate number is a different organizational open half a dozen hours a week on just 2 days

Stop telling lies.

http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-men/

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Indeed.

I don't see why men would be excluded from a helpline though tbh. I find that very odd and kind of want to see this report myself as I cannot understand how a national domestic abuse helpline could exclude half the country...

I totally understand female only shelters and such and understand why there are more of them than male ones. Usually, females set them up to help other females who are terrified of males as they have been abused. Excluding male people from those areas is completely right I think as females go there to escape and even the mere sight of a male could be scary right after being attacked.

Yes there should be more shelters for males, BUT..how many males are actually seriously injured or mentally scarred enough to have to use a shelter? Again we probably do not known because males bottle it all up for fear of being seen as 'not a man' and such.

Basically, until males attitudes towards themselves and other males changes, this problem will still be here. Its not the fault of 'feminists' who wish to help females who actually ask for help.

So we're still simply blaming abused men now for being abused and not speaking out? When there is no one to listen to them and no one to take them seriously? its a catch 22 situation , that is an absolute nightmare for the millions of men who do face abuse, physically, mentally , emotionally, financially etc etc etc lets not forget the supposed physical strength advantage is the reason why male victims are ignored...

But its virtually irrelevant...A violent woman can hurt a man in a million different ways and often get away with it.. With weapons knives , they can destroy property, rack up credit bills, change locks to property, make fake accusations, take his children, accuse him of all sorts or even get other people at attack him.

Even the so called physical superiority of men has virtually disappeared. Men die younger on average by 5 years across every country in the western world. The actual gap in strength has narrowed massively too to virtually nothing. Yet men still carry out the vast majority of the worst hardest dirtiest most dangerous jobs like climbing into the burning grenfell flats to save lives and risk their own

The truth is feminism isnt about equality whatsoever , its about taking as much as possible for women which means taking away as much as possible from men. So men die 5 years younger have infinitely less support, less spent on them, less empathy, less people to talk to, less rights. This is why men commit suicide at 5 times the rate, die younger, yet get 50 times less spent on them. Over 80% of fathers lose custody of their children and their family home. Therefore 80% of boys have no relationship and are cut off from their fathers and often poisoned against them. Meanwhile boys in schools are light years behind girls and in universities too. We are constantly told how dumb boys are, how women can multi task and boys cant. We have almost no male teachers at juniors and infants for fear of false accusations of sexual assaults. Yet these estranged fathers who are kicked out of the homes they spent their entire lives working for and paying for and kicked out of the kids lives. Kids they nurtured fed and clothed and loved. After being destroyed, they get no support and if these men dont kill themselves they are hounded to give half their wages to these women who take their children and homes or they go to prison.

Mans world my ass. Men are massively discriminated against in western society. Often the feminist debate then flips to , oh but women are oppresed in the third world. yes they are, but that doesnt justify discriminating against men in western society simply to redress the balance. There is no balance no justice no equality and we know apply laws and cultural norms in a wholly different way to men and women.

[the truth]

The line is for women and children only, marsh is lying
http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-involve...Feqw7Qod1ykHXQ

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

So we're still simply blaming abused men now for being abused and not speaking out?

Yes. Thats exactly what I said....

I find this an interesting topic but if you are just going to twist everything back round to evil females then its pointless me even posting tbh.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes. Thats exactly what I said....

I find this an interesting topic but if you are just going to twist everything back round to evil females then its pointless me even posting tbh.

I didnt say that , youre twisting my words. I am blaming feminists and especially radical ones, but if youre going to twist everything back to blaming everything on stupid males then its pointless us even discussing it

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

I didnt say that , youre twisting my words. I am blaming feminists and especially radical ones, but if youre going to twist everything back to blaming everything on stupid males then its pointless us even discussing it

I am blaming nothing on 'stupid males'. You clearly haven't read my posts right. I am blaming the majority of it on what a male is 'supposed to be'. Meaning, what society expects. And it is mainly other males who will enforce the ridiculous notion that seeking help or admitting you have a problem is weak.

A huge part of the problem is that males (in general, obviously not on an individual basis) are less likely to talk about their problems. Not just with professionals but even among mates. Males are more likely to ridicule other males for seeking out help too..from my experience anyway. I know 2 guys who have spoken up about being hit by their partners. Both had the piss taken out of them when they discussed it with their (male) friends. 'Ahaha a womans stronger than you' and such. This kind of treatment makes one less likely to actually seek help..I'm sure you agree.

Until this ends, males will not seek help for domestic violence at the same rate that females do. If males do not seek help, the extra shelters and such that are needed (or would be needed, if more who needed help sought it) will not be there.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I am blaming nothing on 'stupid males'. You clearly haven't read my posts right. I am blaming the majority of it on what a male is 'supposed to be'. Meaning, what society expects. And it is mainly other males who will enforce the ridiculous notion that seeking help or admitting you have a problem is weak.

A huge part of the problem is that males (in general, obviously not on an individual basis) are less likely to talk about their problems. Not just with professionals but even among mates. Males are more likely to ridicule other males for seeking out help too..from my experience anyway. I know 2 guys who have spoken up about being hit by their partners. Both had the piss taken out of them when they discussed it with their (male) friends. 'Ahaha a womans stronger than you' and such. This kind of treatment makes one less likely to actually seek help..I'm sure you agree.

Until this ends, males will not seek help for domestic violence at the same rate that females do. If males do not seek help, the extra shelters and such that are needed (or would be needed, if more who needed help sought it) will not be there.

Yes you're just blaming males, how sexist how cold how heartless how sexist
I have laid out the facts , men kill themselves at 5 times the rate of women, they die 5 years young across the entire western world, yet they get 50 times less resources spent on them. Your petty example of 2 clowns taking the piss is utterly irrelevant to the suffering of millions of men worldwide. Men and women take the piss as did jess phillips in a westminster committee discussing male suicides and other complex male issues. Or sharon osbourne to the many watching millions on live tv mocked a man who bled to death after having his scrotum sliced off...she wasnt even warned or sacked by her bosses.... Any fair minded person can see that this is unfair on men. The facilities, the expenditure, the helplines should be open to men 24 hours a day the same as for women and children too..Sadly you clearly do not fall into that category. Absolutely shameful.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

Yes you're just blaming males, how sexist how cold how heartless how sexist
I have laid out the facts , men kill themselves at 5 times the rate of women, they die 5 years young across the entire western world, yet they get 50 times less resources spent on them. Your petty example of 2 clowns taking the piss is utterly irrelevant to the suffering of millions of men worldwide. Men and women take the piss as did jess phillips in a westminster committee discussing male suicides and other complex male issues. Or sharon osbourne to the many watching millions on live tv mocked a man who bled to death after having his scrotum sliced off...she wasnt even warned or sacked by her bosses.... Any fair minded person can see that this is unfair on men. The facilities, the expenditure, the helplines should be open to men 24 hours a day the same as for women and children too..Sadly you clearly do not fall into that category. Absolutely shameful.

Are you saying it is not common among males..the thought that asking for help is bad? That 'man up' is not a common phrase. That being sensitive is not seen as being 'soft'. And 'soft' is not seen as a bad thing? I could go on but fear its pointless given all you got from my post was that I am cold heartless and sexist.

Didn't see the Sharon Osbourne thing but if thats how it happened then thats obviously a disgrace

The facilities are there for the amount of men who report abuse. There are 24 hour helplines available also. Should more money be put into help for males? Yes. But if the demand is not there then these centres and such would close..

[Marsh.]

Don't bother Vicky. It's a waste of time.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Are you saying it is not common among males..the thought that asking for help is bad? That 'man up' is not a common phrase. That being sensitive is not seen as being 'soft'. And 'soft' is not seen as a bad thing? I could go on but fear its pointless given all you got from my post was that I am cold heartless and sexist.

Didn't see the Sharon Osbourne thing but if thats how it happened then thats obviously a disgrace

The facilities are there for the amount of men who report abuse. There are 24 hour helplines available also. Should more money be put into help for males? Yes. But if the demand is not there then these centres and such would close..

The facilities are not there, this national refuge number is not there 24 hours for men.

Heres the osbourne clip you could have easily found it in seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JqoyaL-p4

heres jess phillips mocking mens rights at the westminster committee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XX6ATwQv7Q

If women dont care about mens rights , why should men care about womens?

[Vicky.]

Yes the shelter site is very misleading

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pag...ence-help.aspx

women can call 0808 2000 247, the free 24-hour National Domestic Violence Helpline run in partnership between Women's Aid and Refuge
men can call the Men's Advice Line free on 0808 801 0327 (Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm) or ManKind on 01823 334 244

What on earth is with the attitude? 'you could have easily found it in seconds'. Its you that brought the clip up..not me

I can't actually watch them at the min either as I have no headphones and husbands watching TV but will watch them later on or in the morning

I don't quite understand what you are meaning by this?

If women dont care about mens rights , why should men care about womens?

Who is asking men to care about womens rights?

Your entire thread seems to be about women apparently not caring about mens rights?

------------------------------


Also what you seem to be failing to address is that nearly all domestic violence is actually perpetrated by men too. I don't know where the 40% claim comes from either given police statistics say differently?

http://www.refuge.org.uk/about-domes...ce-and-gender/

-Metropolitan Police statistics show that male violence against women made up 85% of reported domestic violence incidents
-A 2009 study based on police reports, which accounted for the dynamics of domestic violence, found that only 5% of domestic violence incidents were perpetrated by women in heterosexual relationships
-Domestic violence is patterned, repeated behaviour intended to assert power and control over the victim. Of those who experience 4 or more incidents of domestic violence, 89% are women
-Four times as many women as men are killed by a current or former partner. Two women a week are killed as a result of domestic violence in England and Wales

Unless the 2009 study has been done over I guess...

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes the shelter site is very misleading

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pag...ence-help.aspx




What on earth is with the attitude? 'you could have easily found it in seconds'. Its you that brought the clip up..not me

I can't actually watch them at the min either as I have no headphones and husbands watching TV but will watch them later on or in the morning

I don't quite understand what you are meaning by this?
Who is asking men to care about womens rights?

Your entire thread seems to be about women apparently not caring about mens rights?

No its about a lot more than that youre simply being disingenuous by misquoting and wrongly paraphrasing me, its pretty dishonest of you but predictable

society at large is discriminating against and neglecting men and giving them a sub standard service. Society is massively under-appreciating men, massively underestimating the issues facing men, and massively underfunding men...this systematic discrimination against men starts in the school yard in the parliaments and in social media

In america and the UK they now have different laws, which basiclaly give women rights and take aways the mens rights..It is blatant discrimination

Even worse than women only shortlists for running for parliament
Yeah I know it is, and youll hear a heck of a lot more of it as the white old man is the most discriminated against in this country

Heres one for you did you know in parts of america all new mothers get a year to decide whetehr or not to take legal ownership of the baby they have just given birth to
Its called the safe haven law

NO man in western society has this legal choice at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKLFIsv7ATE

I have now provided several video clips which you claim you couldnt find, or rather didnt bother looking for

I find you and marsh's cold callous attitude to this massive problem worldwide to be absolutely chilling and lacking in all compassion and humanity

[Vicky.]

I can't watch the clips at the moment...I didn't say I couldn't find the Osbourne clip I said I hadn't seen it but offered an opinion on it anyway based on what you said it was

I don't agree with women only shortlists. Or anyone getting any job or anything based on anything other than their ability to actually DO the job well.

I still fail to see how my attitude is cold and callous tbh given I have agreed it is a problem but simply said that its not the fault of feminists.

In america and the UK they now have different laws, which basiclaly give women rights and take aways the mens rights..It is blatant discrimination

Which laws would these be?

Can't watch youtube vid either til either stupid o clock or the morning for same reason given in last post. But I will.

[the truth]

I just explained the law? clearly you didnt bother reading what I wrote judging by your 30 second reply

as for men ...well lets see over 70% of homeless people are men, yet they get 50 times less help

Lets look at surveys

Homeless men are more likely to use drugs, smoke and have an alcohol problem than homeless women;
77 per cent of the 1,248 homeless people surveyed who use drugs and alcohol to cope with mental health issues are men;
83 per cent of the 751 homeless people surveyed who say they used cannabis/weed in the past month are men;
72 per cent of the 426 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for mental health problems, but say it would help them, are men;
75 per cent of the 346 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for physical health problems, but say it would help them, are men;
83 per cent of the 103 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for problems with drug use, but say it would help them, are men;
75 per cent of the 124 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for alcohol problems, but say it would help them, are men;
74% of the 949 homeless people surveyed who say they’d like to stop smoking are men.


The greatest irony of all is you and other feminists who say men must speak up more, well here I am speaking up more and I have faced years of being called a sexist pig on this feminist site. The hypocrisy is nauseating

Men speak up and theyre shouted down as sexists , men have no one to turn to, no support, have less rights, less freedoms of speech, less rights as fathers, far less chance at school or university, 80% have no fathers, 40% have no male role models as they grow up, 5 times more kill themselves, they die younger across the world yet 50 times less spent on male issues than men?

[Vicky.]

society at large is discriminating against and neglecting men and giving them a sub standard service. Society is massively under-appreciating men, massively underestimating the issues facing men, and massively underfunding men...this systematic discrimination against men starts in the school yard in the parliaments and in social media

In america and the UK they now have different laws, which basiclaly give women rights and take aways the mens rights..It is blatant discrimination

Even worse than women only shortlists for running for parliament

Where in here do you explain these laws that give women rights and take away mens?!

I assumed the safe haven law you posted about was actually a different part of your post...is that what you meant by giving women rights and taking mens away? I don't even know wtf this safe haven law thing is meant to be...'take legal ownership' of a baby? They aren't objects...maybe it will be clearer when I can watch the vid

I replied in 3 mins, not 30 seconds. It doesn't take longer than that to read a post and type a reply.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Where in here do you explain these laws that give women rights and take away mens?!

I assumed the safe haven law you posted about was actually a different part of your post...is that what you meant by giving women rights and taking mens away? I don't even know wtf this safe haven law thing is meant to be...'take legal ownership' of a baby? They aren't objects...maybe it will be clearer when I can watch the vid

I replied in 3 mins, not 30 seconds. It doesn't take longer than that to read a post and type a reply.

I explained clearly what it was as does the 4 minute video
Im not re explaining it for you to simply ignore it again as you have done with all my facts and figures

delighted to see at least 1 famous female tv star admit she is not a feminist and that she was never held back as a woman as so many false feminists claim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71TsgQavVkM

[Vicky.]

Your post was not clear...there was also a random bit that I am not sure was meant to be in it as it didn't seem to fit at all with what you were saying, and I cannot YET watch the video but I will. Hopefully it will actually be clear after watching it as I can't make any sense of what you have actually said nor do I understand how giving women the right to take legal ownership (of the baby she has just given birth to) is actually taking away any mens rights...rather than not giving them the same right. But I don't understand how the law would actually work in practice..

[Redway]

Do people still pay attention to this guy?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Your post was not clear...there was also a random bit that I am not sure was meant to be in it as it didn't seem to fit at all with what you were saying, and I cannot YET watch the video but I will. Hopefully it will actually be clear after watching it as I can't make any sense of what you have actually said nor do I understand how giving women the right to take legal ownership (of the baby she has just given birth to) is actually taking away any mens rights...rather than not giving them the same right. But I don't understand how the law would actually work in practice..

Youve totally misunderstood it, probably deliberately. youve been on here hours debating but havent got 4 minutes to watch a clip? convenient especially as the clip doesnt back up your pro feminist agenda

the law says a all mothers gets a year to decide whether or not she will decide to keep her baby or to give it up for adoption. This means in the first year the mother is not legally or morally repsonsible for that new born baby and can simply hand it over to the state to look after then pick it back up a year later...No man on planet earth has this right

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

Do people still pay attention to this guy?

Yea thats right, ignore the issue at hand, attack the poster and play to the gallery and bring some good old fashioned group bullying into it..well done pal

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

Heres the osbourne clip you could have easily found it in seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JqoyaL-p4

'I think its quite fabulous'

WTF. Obsbourne comes across horrifically there making no end of jokes about it.

The rest of them aren't really much better. Nor the audience giggling away.

Originally Posted by the truth

heres jess phillips mocking mens rights at the westminster committee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XX6ATwQv7Q

'violence against men. Goes very much unreported because of embarrassment about it'

'men don't talk about protstate cancer, testicular cancer for fear of embarrassment'

Those guys just made the point I was making earlier in the thread actually :S


It doesn't seem to me that she is actually laughing at the points he raised in regards to mens issues? Granted its a sensitive topic so she shouldn't be laughing at all really but she doesn't seem at all to be laughing at suicide rates or anything like that like you originally claimed.

I am not too sure where I stand on the issue they were debating tbh. As international mens day...kind of comes under the same heading as 'all lives matter' and 'heterosexual pride day'

Having said that I am not a good person to be debating this with as I tend to think most 'international X days' and stuff are fairly unneeded and pointless.

Originally Posted by the truth

Heres one for you did you know in parts of america all new mothers get a year to decide whetehr or not to take legal ownership of the baby they have just given birth to
Its called the safe haven law

NO man in western society has this legal choice at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKLFIsv7ATE

I am still not really understanding this safe haven law. It sounds to me like...a woman has up to a year to decide if she will give the child up for adoption? But a 'fast track adoption' by the sounds of it...none of the paperwork and such

I do think though, that is a woman can effectively 'opt out' of parenting, then a man should be able to do the same. I know many do in the sense that they don't bother to actually visits their child but they are still held financially responsible (though many find ways to dodge that too).

After watching the video, I am still none the wiser about quite how this law is actually taking rights away from men. Rather than giving women a right that men currently do not have.

Originally Posted by the truth

the law says a all mothers gets a year to decide whether or not she will decide to keep her baby or to give it up for adoption. This means in the first year the mother is not legally or morally responsible for that new born baby and can simply hand it over to the state to look after then pick it back up a year later...No man on planet earth has this right

From what I am reading (reading more into it as the video didn't go into detail) this is not what its about. Its basically decriminalizing abandoning a child...there is not mention of leaving the child for a year then picking it up or anything like that. Once you 'safely abandon' your child, thats it. It goes into the care system. Also there is no mention of this being sex specific

I think I agree with the law actually. It makes babies less likely to suffer neglect and total abandonment by giving those who feel they have no other way out some way to actually do it safely and without being punished. I do feel that some effort should be made to determine if the father would like the child though, it sounds like that does not happen due to the anonymity granted under the law.

Originally Posted by the truth

Youve totally misunderstood it, probably deliberately. youve been on here hours debating but havent got 4 minutes to watch a clip? convenient especially as the clip doesnt back up your pro feminist agenda

This is just ****ing insulting to be quite honest.

I explained why I couldn't watch videos last night. And your post was not clear at all about this safe haven thing. Why on earth I would pretend not to understand something, whilst still saying I would watch the full clip once I could I don't bloody know.

I don't have a 'pro-feminist' agenda.