[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't call you a Nazi.

A nazi sympathiser then. Show me where I expressed any agreement or sympathy for their actions.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So what does that make lefties who refuse to condemn the extreme left for their actions?

Well if the Left refuses to condemn these imaginary Left Wing Terrorists that are as much to blame as the existing Right Wing Nazi terrorists then they'd be terrorist sympathisers for not condemning them.

It's quite obvious, Brillo.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

A nazi sympathiser then. Show me where I expressed any agreement or sympathy for their actions.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No the left just went there to cause trouble and inflamed the situation.

I find your intent fairly transparent.

[Livia]

Unless you're referring to the actual Nazi party, then using the term makes you seem at best, uninformed.

At the same time the actual Nazis - on the extreme Right - were gassing and murdering their way across the world, Stalin - on the extreme Left - was having a massive killing spree of his own. Do I ever hear anyone call someone on the far Left a Communist? A Stalinist? No... because that would be just as stupid as calling people Nazis when the subject you're discussing is about a parsec away from real Nazis.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If you want to call me a nazi for pointing out that there are extremists on both sides, there are, that is your problem not mine. I justified nothing unlike Dezzy's attempted justification of leftist thugs in post 2.

What justification?

Alf mentioned two examples, I had scathing words for both and did not justify what they did. I condemned the actions of that attempted murderer and those students that started the riot I just don't think it's justifiable to use those examples to say that the left are to blame for Right Wing Nazi terrorism.

It's scapegoating.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

Unless you're referring to the actual Nazi party, then using the term makes you seem at best, uninformed.

At the same time the actual Nazis - on the extreme Right - were gassing and murdering their way across the world, Stalin - on the extreme Left - was having a massive killing spree of his own. Do I ever hear anyone call someone on the far Left a Communist? A Stalinist? No... because that would be just as stupid as calling people Nazis when the subject you're discussing is about a parsec away from real Nazis.

They were flag waving Neo Nazis, Livia. Did you not see the pictures? Why are you more concerned about the use of the word rather than the fact that their actions have led to a loss of life?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They were flag waving Neo Nazis, Livia. Did you not see the pictures?

I saw a bunch of uneducated American bigots carrying a swastika.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I find your intent fairly transparent.

Why - because they did. It was an organised demonstration. I don't agree with the depth of their views or the way they express them but they have as much right to express them in a legal way as a left demonstration. The left went there with an intention to cause conflict and you know it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Unless you're referring to the actual Nazi party, then using the term makes you seem at best, uninformed.

At the same time the actual Nazis - on the extreme Right - were gassing and murdering their way across the world, Stalin - on the extreme Left - was having a massive killing spree of his own. Do I ever hear anyone call someone on the far Left a Communist? A Stalinist? No... because that would be just as stupid as calling people Nazis when the subject you're discussing is about a parsec away from real Nazis.

To an extent, yes, I agree, but I suspect that for most of these people the only thing that is stopping them is lack of means rather than lack of motivation. The ideology is exactly the same - and if they had a nation or an army - I'm not so sure they wouldn't be gassing and murdering their way across the world without hesitation.

I suppose it's important to remember that the Nazi ideology existed in small niche pockets long before those Nazis found their way into power in Germany. They didn't spring up out of the ground. Just because the current groups with white supremacist / Nazi ideologies don't currently have power, doesn't mean that they should be disregarded or ignored as a threat.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't call you a Nazi.

I find it ironic that you speak about people picking sides and making allusions to playgrounds when you never budge from your corner. There are plenty people on the forum who don't have a side and you definitely aren't one of them.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They were flag waving Neo Nazis, Livia. Did you not see the pictures? Why are you more concerned about the use of the word rather than the fact that their actions have led to a loss of life?

And there were flag waving communist, Stalinists at Jeremy Corbyn rallies this year.





Did you vote for Corbyn? and if you did, does that make you a Commie sympathiser?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To an extent, yes, I agree, but I suspect that for most of these people the only thing that is stopping them is lack of means rather than lack of motivation. The ideology is exactly the same - and if they had a nation or an army - I'm not so sure they wouldn't be gassing and murdering their way across the world without hesitation.

I suppose it's important to remember that the Nazi ideology existed in small niche pockets long before those Nazis found their way into power in Germany. They didn't spring up out of the ground. Just because the current groups with white supremacist / Nazi ideologies don't currently have power, doesn't mean that they should be disregarded or ignored as a threat.

That could just as easily apply to those on the extreme left. They are becoming increasingly more violent. As you said yourself people pick a side and adopt the rhetoric. Some also just love violence and adopt a side to enable it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

There are plenty people on the forum who don't have a side

In SD's? No there aren't.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

And there were flag waving communist, Stalinists at Jeremy Corbyn rallies this year.





Did you vote for Corbyn? and if you did, does that make you a Commie sympathiser?

What does Jeremy Corbyn have to do with Right Wing Terrorism in the US? This obsession is really boring.

But if you insist, there's a difference between extremists trying to hijack an unrelated event for their own purposes and Neo Nazis organising an armed rally in what is a Liberal location to 'protest' the removal of a statue of a slaver. Should be obvious really. Corbyn organised an election rally, not a communist one so it's pretty silly to blame him for the actions of extremists that wanted to hijack the event.

Also, I don't live in his constituency so no, I didn't vote for Corbyn. Need me to explain for the UK election system works? But if I did then that wouldn't make me a sympathiser to Stalinists because I'm not refusing to condemn them and I'm not making excuses to blame anyone else but them for their own actions. Again, this should be real obvious to everyone.

I can only imagine this flawed argument of yours is based around your erroneous belief that I think people who voted for Trump are Nazi sympathisers? If so please point out where I said that. Voting or supporting Trump doesn't make a person a Nazi Sympathiser, making excuses for Nazis and scapegoating innocent parties to vindicate Nazis makes a person a Nazi Sympathiser.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

What does Jeremy Corbyn have to do with Right Wing Terrorism in the US? This obsession is really boring.

But if you insist, there's a difference between extremists trying to hijack an unrelated event for their own purposes and Neo Nazis organising an armed rally in what is a Liberal location to 'protest' the removal of a statue of a slaver. Should be obvious really. Corbyn organised an election rally, not a communist one so it's pretty silly to blame him for the actions of extremists that wanted to hijack the event.

Also, I don't live in his constituency so no, I didn't vote for Corbyn. Need me to explain for the UK election system works? But if I did then that wouldn't make me a sympathiser to Stalinists because I'm not refusing to condemn them and I'm not making excuses to blame anyone else but them for their own actions. Again, this should be real obvious to everyone.

I can only imagine this flawed argument of yours is based around your erroneous belief that I think people who voted for Trump are Nazi sympathisers? If so please point out where I said that. Voting or supporting Trump doesn't make a person a Nazi Sympathiser, making excuses for Nazis and scapegoating innocent parties to vindicate Nazis makes a person a Nazi Sympathiser.

Bad isn't it, Communist parading around in our country? It's even worse when they come so close to gaining power, isn't it?

We had a lucky escape there, wouldn't you say?


While you're on the subject of statues. Here's a bunch of lefties pulling down a confederate statue in the US a couple of days ago.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

What does Jeremy Corbyn have to do with Right Wing Terrorism in the US? This obsession is really boring.

But if you insist, there's a difference between extremists trying to hijack an unrelated event for their own purposes and Neo Nazis organising an armed rally in what is a Liberal location to 'protest' the removal of a statue of a slaver. Should be obvious really. Corbyn organised an election rally, not a communist one so it's pretty silly to blame him for the actions of extremists that wanted to hijack the event.

Also, I don't live in his constituency so no, I didn't vote for Corbyn. Need me to explain for the UK election system works? But if I did then that wouldn't make me a sympathiser to Stalinists because I'm not refusing to condemn them and I'm not making excuses to blame anyone else but them for their own actions. Again, this should be real obvious to everyone.

I can only imagine this flawed argument of yours is based around your erroneous belief that I think people who voted for Trump are Nazi sympathisers? If so please point out where I said that. Voting or supporting Trump doesn't make a person a Nazi Sympathiser, making excuses for Nazis and scapegoating innocent parties to vindicate Nazis makes a person a Nazi Sympathiser.

Please point out where anyone has made excuses for nazis.

Allocating a degree of responsibility to the adults that knowing stirred up emotions in an already volatile situation that in turn led to one scum bag running a car into a crowd of people is reasonable. They didn't drive the car but they contributed to the atmosphere of aggression.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

Bad isn't it, Communist parading around in our country? It's even worse when they come so close to gaining power, isn't it?

We had a lucky escape there, wouldn't you say?


While you're on the subject of statues. Here's a bunch of lefties pulling down a confederate statue in the US a couple of days ago.

Seems like a poor attempt at a comparison. Trump was dependent on extreme elements to gain power, it's why he is so reluctant to to condemn them because he has given them power by bringing them back from the fringes into the forefront of politics.

The same can't be said for Corbyn, your argument seems to be based on the thought that protesters at his rally somehow represent him and his views so it's flawed since you are trying to find similarities in two completely different situations. Stalinists are as fringe as they come, they certainly don't have the power to influence politics and Corbyn doesn't seem to be associated with them at all.

Yes, someone pulled down a statue, it's reckless, dangerous and stupid to do so like that since someone could have easily got hurt. I don't really see the relevance beyond that though? Are you saying this statue is as much a victim as the dead woman killed in the Neo Nazi terror attack? Are you defending Confederates now? I don't quite understand.

[Kizzy]

Oh... Look over there!!! LOOK !! LOOK!! Don't look at what is the actual and immediate issue here and now.

Pathetic! Sad pathetic attempt to suggest that anti fascists are to blame for the increasing violence from the alt right in the west.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Seems like a poor attempt at a comparison. Trump was dependent on extreme elements to gain power, it's why he is so reluctant to to condemn them because he has given them power by bringing them back from the fringes into the forefront of politics.

The same can't be said for Corbyn, your argument seems to be based on the thought that protesters at his rally somehow represent him and his views so it's flawed since you are trying to find similarities in two completely different situations. Stalinists are as fringe as they come, they certainly don't have the power to influence politics and Corbyn doesn't seem to be associated with them at all.

Yes, someone pulled down a statue, it's reckless, dangerous and stupid to do so like that since someone could have easily got hurt. I don't really see the relevance beyond that though? Are you saying this statue is as much a victim as the dead woman killed in the Neo Nazi terror attack? Are you defending Confederates now? I don't quite understand.

But he did condemn them. He condemned them on the same day. He condemned extremism on all sides, let's face it, the White supremacists were not fighting themselves, so he had a point.

But of course, that wasn't good enough for the thirsty people after his blood.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

But he did condemn them. He condemned them on the same day. He condemned extremism on all sides, let's face it, the White supremacists were not fighting themselves, so he had a point.

But of course, that wasn't good enough for the thirsty people after his blood.

No, he didn't condemn them. He blamed everyone for the actions of a specific party of people. He pussied out because he didn't want to offend the only groups of people on his side.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh... Look over there!!! LOOK !! LOOK!! Don't look at what is the actual and immediate issue here and now.

Pathetic! Sad pathetic attempt to suggest that anti fascists are to blame for the increasing violence from the alt right in the west.

That's part of the problem - some people refuse to see how their contribution in terms of behaviour contributed to a volatile situation spiralling out of control.

Why ccouldn't they just let those idiots have their little demonstration. Not to give them the publicity would have made more sense. They couldn't because they were trouble makers looking to make trouble. It isn't rocket science. They bear some responsibility for what happened like it is not.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That's part of the problem - some people refuse to see how their contribution in terms of behaviour contributed to a volatile situation spiralling out of control.

Why ccouldn't they just let those idiots have their little demonstration. Not to give them the publicity would have made more sense. They couldn't because they were trouble makers looking to make trouble. It isn't rocket science. They bear some responsibility for what happened like it is not.

Exactly. They could have just laughed at how idiotic they are and gone on social media and meme'd the heck out of them. But the left don't do laughter, they do censor.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Alf

Exactly. They could have just laughed at how idiotic they are and gone on social media and meme'd the heck out of them. But the left don't do laughter, they do censor.

They do indeed Alf. Who do people think they are trying to censor people all the time.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Alf

Exactly. They could have just laughed at how idiotic they are and gone on social media and meme'd the heck out of them. But the left don't do laughter, they do censor.

Ahh yes. If there's one thing those "on the right" are known for, it's their unshakeable sense of humour.



Those lefties just need to watch some Dad's Army and relax.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

They do indeed Alf. Who do people think they are trying to censor people all the time.

So you think the Nazi's of the far-right should have the right to voice their repugnant views and opinions on the streets of US and UK towns and cities do you ?

Wow!!!!