[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hope you're wrong and instead people are given proper counselling to help them accept who they are, not given the emperor's new clothes treatment

Is a pair of jeans, a blue bedroom, and all the counselling in the world really going to help a girl who's gowing an adams apple and a deep voice. She would still be a 50 year old woman who was forced into the boy-man puberty cycle because she was denied the drug to slow that down, even though she knew she wanted this as a child. She will still look down on herself with resentment, and that would be her parents fault more than anything, they have the choice now more than ever.

Imagine what Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney could look like if they had the male puberty cycle slowed down or stopped.. Forcing kids into a gender just seems so outdated to me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Is a pair of jeans, a blue bedroom, and all the counselling in the world really going to help a girl who's gowing an adams apple and a deep voice. She would still be a 50 year old woman who was forced into the boy-man puberty cycle because she was denied the drug to slow that down, even though she knew she wanted this as a child. She will still look down on herself with resentment, and that would be her parents fault more than anything, they have the choice now more than ever.

Imagine what Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney could look like if they had the male puberty cycle slowed down or stopped.. Forcing kids into a gender just seems so outdated to me.

A blue bedroom and a pair of jeans? So your idea of what gender is, is all the stereotypes? That's pretty outdated thinking to me

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

A blue bedroom and a pair of jeans? So your idea of what gender is, is all the stereotypes? That's pretty outdated thinking to me

Ugh no, that wasnt my point either. I was suggesting that these things would not be helpful. That is not what a boy is. Its deeper than that, and counselling isnt going to stop your hormones changing you into something you know you're not.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Is a pair of jeans, a blue bedroom, and all the counselling in the world really going to help a girl who's gowing an adams apple and a deep voice. She would still be a 50 year old woman who was forced into the boy-man puberty cycle because she was denied the drug to slow that down, even though she knew she wanted this as a child. She will still look down on herself with resentment, and that would be her parents fault more than anything, they have the choice now more than ever.

Imagine what Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney could look like if they had the male puberty cycle slowed down or stopped.. Forcing kids into a gender just seems so outdated to me.

Why do Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney's appearances have any bearing on this discussion at all?

Is gender reassignment a beauty contest now? People come in all shapes and sizes, some have physical beauty some don't. What are you saying here?

Are you also saying that parent are to blame if they don't give in to everything a child demands? What if someone's child doesn't like the look of ears and wants them removed at 7?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Why do Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney's appearances have any bearing on this discussion at all?

Is gender reassignment a beauty contest now? People come in all shapes and sizes, some have physical beauty some don't. What are you saying here?

I'm saying, and I've heard Lauren Harries say this too in some documentary I watched about 10/15 years ago, that some aspects of puberty is irreversible. Lauren may be legally, and technically a woman, but when she still went through the male puberty cycle, she still became something she was not, she can't get rid of her adams apple etc. Girls growing up in boys bodies now have the chance to stop processes like this, forcing them into it simply because they are a child and might be confused is gross.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

I'm saying, and I've heard Lauren Harries say this too in some documentary I watched about 10/15 years ago, that some aspects of puberty is irreversible. Lauren may be legally, and technically a woman, but when she still went through the male puberty cycle, she still became something she was not, she can't get rid of her adams apple etc. Girls growing up in boys bodies now have the chance to stop processes like this, forcing them into it simply because they are a child and might be confused is gross.

She also can't grow a womb and ovaries. Whether she has medication, surgery or not.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

She also can't grow a womb and ovaries. Whether she has medication, surgery or not.

... so she should still be a boy to this point... so she should shut her whining and be happy.. no ovaries = adams apple, its one or the other, thats the rule...

I dont get your point. Seems more transphobic than anything.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

... so she should still be a boy to this point... so she should shut her whining and be happy.. no ovaries = adams apple, its one or the other, thats the rule...

I dont get your point. Seems more transphobic than anything.

First paragraph, you said all that not me.

And here we go with the labels and accusations. I don't agree with you therefore I must be some sort of phobic. Grow up.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

First paragraph, you said all that not me.

And here we go with the labels and accusations. I don't agree with you therefore I must be some sort of phobic. Grow up.

First paragraph? You think Lauren Harries should still be a man to this point? And I'm not allowed to call that transphobia? Can reiterate, what do you mean by first paragraph?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

... so she should still be a boy to this point... so she should shut her whining and be happy.. no ovaries = adams apple, its one or the other, thats the rule...

I dont get your point. Seems more transphobic than anything.

Can you try to discus this without insulting people please?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

She also can't grow a womb and ovaries. Whether she has medication, surgery or not.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Can you try to discus this without insulting people please?

Sorry Niamh, I don't understand the point she was making here. If there is not a point, it is transphobia. That is the definition of transphobia. I am not insulting her. That is the correct adjective (if there was not a point to that post).

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Are you also saying that parent are to blame if they don't give in to everything a child demands? What if someone's child doesn't like the look of ears and wants them removed at 7?

They are not an earless person in a person-with-ears body. Why do you keep making ****e comparisons, do you even understand the topic?! This is the same as your princess metaphor.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

They are not an earless person in a person-with-ears body. Why do you keep making ****e comparisons, do you even understand the topic?! This is the same as your princess metaphor.

Its not really a crap metaphor though, but for sake of the conversation, I will bite here. What is the difference between someone who is transgender and transabled? Or in the case of that Rachel Dolezqal person, trans-racial? Really?

Transabled people are distressed by what they consider to be limbs that do not belong to them, they are disabled people trapped in able bodies. They have surgeries (if they can find doctors willing to do them) to correct this. In what way is this different to considering yourself a different sex than you are and having surgeries to 'fix' this?

My view on pretty much the whole topic is that adults should do whatever they feel will help them in their daily lives tbh (though studies show that 'transition' is not a cure as some think, as mental health a few years after the original honeymoon period actually goes downhill) but kids should be left well alone. We shouldn't be using kids in experimental treatments. There are enough 'detransitioners' to question this 'surgery or die' rhetoric that we are fed. Also the likes of mermaids should be ****ing ashamed for peddling this '50% of transkids kill themselves' nonsense. Scaring parents into medicating their children for life. When in MOST cases, the kid if just left to go through puberty would be perfectly happy as an adult, and in most cases simply gay. Yes, a handful of these kids will turn out to actually be transsexual when they are older, but I don't get why its seen as a good thing to treat ALL questioning kids with these powerful and dangerous drugs, on the offchance that they are one of the 20% (or less) who continue to question as adults.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its not really a crap metaphor though, but for sake of the conversation, I will bite here. What is the difference between someone who is transgender and transabled? Or in the case of that Rachel Dolezqal person, trans-racial? Really?

Difference is, up to this date, only one of those things can be scientifically proven.... Theres also no evidence to being an earless person in a person with ears body either. So yeah crap lol. Unless of course I'm wrong and it can be scientifically proven that you can be an earless person, I didnt actually Google.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Difference is, up to this date, only one of those things can be scientifically proven.... Theres also no evidence to being an earless person in a person with ears body either. So yeah crap lol. Unless of course I'm wrong and it can be scientifically proven that you can be an earless person, I didnt actually Google.

What do you mean by this? That males trapped in female bodies and vice versa can actually be scientifically proven?

Earless people, do exist apparently. I didn't know that either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenesis

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

What do you mean by this? That males trapped in female bodies and vice versa can actually be scientifically proven?

Earless people, do exist apparently. I didn't know that either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenesis

Yes, there are several difference in the male and female brain. Off the top of my head, males have 7x more grey matter than females, and females have 10x more white matter than males, this leads to several behavioural differences and can be seen in frmi scanners. MTF brains very closely resemble a female brain and vice versa.
I'm not sure if transabled brains and transracial brains are currently being examined in similar ways, but I do look for articles on the topic regularly, it does interest me... to my knowledge, currently, theres no scientific foundation to people identifying this way being based on anything substantial.. yet.. (this might be controversial of me, but i dont think that evidence will ever exist).

Eta. Same goes for earless people trapped in ear-ful bodies... probably