[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's an interesting concept and I would say certainly valid in cases where people find themselves getting genuinely "offended on behalf of" others, i.e. Really emotionally upset or angry about the issues being discussed. However, like I said I think it's possible to at least explore these issues and think about / empathise with others WITHOUT being emotionally involved. Surely it's possible to appreciate and want to support people who are upset by something, without getting upset at all oneself, or having it affect the rest of one's day in any way?

I would also say that if it is the case, and people's heavy emotional involvement with "offense" is in part down to projection, then surely that must apply both ways? There are people who get very emotionally wound up and certainly very angry on the flips idea of this, too... I guess in this case you could say "outraged on behalf of the festival organisers". It's sort of the same thing; the specifics of the case don't involve them in any way at all unless they are actually from that area or involved, and yet some people are incensed at the idea of it being "affected by PC" etc... So, might there be a similar element of projection there? People aren't actually annoyed by criticisms of the Zulu carnival, they might be projecting their own feelings of having their own expression shut down or invalidated, and be projecting it onto an event / event organisers that have nothing to do with them... Making it exactly the same "fighting for them for me" escape mechanism?

Sorry, I haven't time to answer this in more depth...
Yes, that’s why I said ‘some people’ - those who take it to extremes and see racism and injustice around every corner. Most of us have a natural empathy for the sufferings of others, but also have a sense of balance and can work out when something is deliberately hurtful or intended to cause conflict and when it isn’t.
We all have a coping instinct in which what we say and do unconsciously ‘feeds’ our minds and emotions to hopefully get us the outcome we need to make us feel better.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the more dangerous and unpleasant the world becomes as a whole, the more PC many people become.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

That's why I said SOME people, those who go to extremes...and I also said that people aren't THAT wired to others sufferings as much as they are to their own, not that they don't care at all.
It's human nature and called the survival instinct. How many would go to the extreme of dying for a stranger? Not many. How many would donate all their money and belongings to a cause and starve? Not many. No, their own well being is more important to them, right?

Also, people who have true empathy don't leave it behind when they get behind a computer screen. True empathy isn't reserved for certain groups, it should extent to all. A lot is revealed when people are anonymous, like unkindness and nastiness.
There is empathy and then there is over - zealousness and combativeness.

Loving that tangent you're flying off on there....
Of course peoples own well being is important to them you are lurching from the ridiculous to the downright obvious with not much sense in between, sorry.
My whole point is that empathy isn't reserved for certain groups, are you suggesting people are nastier online than in person?... :/

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I am happy to take 'the Zulus' or Mr Gumedes word for it yes, even though he initially wasn't of course why wouldn't I?



Of course I haven't ever suggested that Mr Gumede is offended on behalf of all Zulu... What a strange thing to insinuate.

Yet you weren't happy for Livia to not be offended on her own behalf, you insinuated she was speaking for all Jews? you can't have it both ways

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You are entitled - just don't try to force it on to me or anyone else who doesn't agree with you.

Where have I done that?

Simply posting my opinion in a thread asking for opinions is forcing you to go along with it?

You really need to get a grip.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Think his point was that you can't say **** (p-word) but you can say "chinky", showing that one has become a more commonly recognised racial slur.

I think they both are where I'm from.

It's probably that the mods haven't come to the point they need to censor the second as it hasn't come up to be used as a slur.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

Sorry, I haven't time to answer this in more depth...
Yes, that’s why I said ‘some people’ - those who take it to extremes and see racism and injustice around every corner. Most of us have a natural empathy for the sufferings of others, but also have a sense of balance and can work out when something is deliberately hurtful or intended to cause conflict and when it isn’t.
We all have a coping instinct in which what we say and do unconsciously ‘feeds’ our minds and emotions to hopefully get us the outcome we need to make us feel better.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the more dangerous and unpleasant the world becomes as a whole, the more PC many people become.

Was waiting for the PC term to raise it's head... Oh someone is agreeing with the offended minority when we want the have 'fun' in the name of 'tradition' we best trot out the tired old worn phrases to diminish their opinion.

We're not being intentionally offensive in our lionskin covered in skulls and horns, and if you're offended tuff.
The motto of the bonfire is they won't be 'druv' meaning (to me) however what we do is perceived let it be known we don't care we're doing it anyway.

Isn't that a sorry state of affairs that the more dangerous the world becomes it's seen as a bad thing to want to resolve it in a 'politically correct' way, what's the alternative... Anarchy?....War?.... Segregation?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I think they both are where I'm from.

It's probably that the mods haven't come to the point they need to censor the second as it hasn't come up to be used as a slur.

Its so rare that you see Chinese people in general outwith a large city. I never see any anywhere

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yet you weren't happy for Livia to not be offended on her own behalf, you insinuated she was speaking for all Jews? you can't have it both ways

Are you Livias official spokesperson now?...ok.

I haven't got it both ways...I never requested it both ways.

If you re read my post again you will see that I insinuated very strongly she did not speak for the entire Jewish community.

She was speaking for herself relaying a story in relation to a situation she found herself in that (for me at least) inferred that if there was no intent there was no offence to be taken...That of course is entirely subjective and relies on the circumstances surrounding to two scenarios.

The inference was that is she wasn't offended at that why was Mr Gumede offended at this, how else is her comment to be interpreted?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its so rare that you see Chinese people in general outwith a large city. I never see any anywhere

Not around here.

There's suddenly quite a large Chinese population the last couple of years.

The number of them I see spending thousands in the bookies is quite eye opening.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Where have I done that?

Simply posting my opinion in a thread asking for opinions is forcing you to go along with it?

You really need to get a grip.

It’s not me that’s needs to get a grip. Calling people racist at every opportunity is trying to force your opinions on to others. You are saying that if they don’t agree with your views, think like you, see things your way etc not only are they ‘wrong’ they are ‘bad people’ and you are therefore entitled to call them nasty names. It’s pathetic.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Was waiting for the PC term to raise it's head... Oh someone is agreeing with the offended minority when we want the have 'fun' in the name of 'tradition' we best trot out the tired old worn phrases to diminish their opinion.

We're not being intentionally offensive in our lionskin covered in skulls and horns, and if you're offended tuff.
The motto of the bonfire is they won't be 'druv' meaning (to me) however what we do is perceived let it be known we don't care we're doing it anyway.

Isn't that a sorry state of affairs that the more dangerous the world becomes it's seen as a bad thing to want to resolve it in a 'politically correct' way, what's the alternative... Anarchy?....War?.... Segregation?

I used the term PC as an observation, not a criticism. I'm fairly PC myself, just not overly so.
Of course people have the right to be offended, and people have the right not to be offended. Why is not accepted that people are all different?
War, Anarchy? No. I think more tolerance is the way to go. Trying to force people to all think alike is very dangerous indeed.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It’s not me that’s needs to get a grip. Calling people racist at every opportunity is trying to force your opinions on to others. You are saying that if they don’t agree with your views, think like you, see things your way etc not only are they ‘wrong’ they are ‘bad people’ and you are therefore entitled to call them nasty names. It’s pathetic.

I haven't said that about anyone who disagrees with me.

Keep trying.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

I used the term PC as an observation, not a criticism. I'm fairly PC myself, just not overly so.
Of course people have the right to be offended, and people have the right not to be offended. Why is not accepted that people are all different?
War, Anarchy? No. I think more tolerance is the way to go. Trying to force people to all think alike is very dangerous indeed.

It came across a tad critical, as I asked what is the alternative? People are appearing more PC because guess what they don't want to go to war again, they don't want genocide, they don't want regression.
It's not forcing anyone to do anything is it?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Are you Livias official spokesperson now?...ok.

I haven't got it both ways...I never requested it both ways.

If you re read my post again you will see that I insinuated very strongly she did not speak for the entire Jewish community.

She was speaking for herself relaying a story in relation to a situation she found herself in that (for me at least) inferred that if there was no intent there was no offence to be taken...That of course is entirely subjective and relies on the circumstances surrounding to two scenarios.

The inference was that is she wasn't offended at that why was Mr Gumede offended at this, how else is her comment to be interpreted?

No why do you think that, I responded as it fitted with other points I addressed as you well know, didn't realise we had to keep within certain parameters, anything else you would like to dictate while you are at it?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No why do you think that, I responded as it fitted with other points I addressed as you well know, didn't realise we had to keep within certain parameters, anything else you would like to dictate while you are at it?

It didn't fit though...You completely misinterpreted my post by asking me to clarify a statement I didn't make, and somehow that's my fault :/

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It didn't fit though...You completely misinterpreted my post by asking me to clarify a statement I didn't make, and somehow that's my fault :/

No I don't believe I did misinterpret your post, if deleted posts were still in evidence it would back that up

[Kizzy]

I've had a post deleted? News to me.

[lostalex]

I remember when Kizzy first came to this place. She's still just as annoying. Hey kizz! nice to see ya!

she loves me too.

[Northern Monkey]

It’s exactly this kind of attitude that is anti inclusive and breeds division.If something is blatant racism then people will call it out.
Dressing as another culture is not racism.Now if somebody was dressing up as a black minstrel with white eyes i’d condem it too as it has a racist history.
Common sense and context is needed.Multiculturalism is bringing us a fairly new set of problems and common sense from everyone is needed.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I remember when Kizzy first came to this place. She's still just as annoying. Hey kizz! nice to see ya!

she loves me too.

Hi yep my first memory of you is you asking Ben to ban me... good timez LOL

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Was waiting for the PC term to raise it's head... Oh someone is agreeing with the offended minority when we want the have 'fun' in the name of 'tradition' we best trot out the tired old worn phrases to diminish their opinion.

We're not being intentionally offensive in our lionskin covered in skulls and horns, and if you're offended tuff.
The motto of the bonfire is they won't be 'druv' meaning (to me) however what we do is perceived let it be known we don't care we're doing it anyway.

Isn't that a sorry state of affairs that the more dangerous the world becomes it's seen as a bad thing to want to resolve it in a 'politically correct' way, what's the alternative... Anarchy?....War?.... Segregation?

The irony there being that the left cause much of the anarchy with all their protest marches and attempts to control how others think - both of which often lead to violence. It's akin to baiting.

PC is by it's very definition is controlling - it is designed to be - to deny that is infantile. All these people wanting to see themselves as 'progressive' when I believe that really they fear that not just accepting everyone regardless of the issues involved will lead to the above ie war etc - one could argue that was simply a form of self-interest.

Segregation is very often something minorities do to themselves. Many come to Britain but do very little to integrate - not even to learn the basics such as language - there is never any excuse for that.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No I don't believe I did misinterpret your post, if deleted posts were still in evidence it would back that up

Again to clarify there have been none of my posts removed from this thread.

[Niamh.]

I just went back and checked, there was around 8 posts deleted in this thread none of them were Kizzys though

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The irony there being that the left cause much of the anarchy with all their protest marches and attempts to control how others think - both of which often lead to violence. It's akin to baiting.

PC is by it's very definition is controlling - it is designed to be - to deny that is infantile. All these people wanting to see themselves as 'progressive' when I believe that really they fear that not just accepting everyone regardless of the issues involved will lead to the above ie war etc - one could argue that was simply a form of self-interest.

Segregation is very often something minorities do to themselves. Many come to Britain but do very little to integrate - not even to learn the basics such as language - there is never any excuse for that.

The right also march... there are perhaps more organised right wing marches than left I would say, that said they are if peaceful perfectly acceptable as we have that right thankfully. Would you remove the right to protest?

Define PC for me, I would be interested to hear what this propaganda inspired soundbite has invoked in your mind, to deny that isn't infantile it's you attempting to control the conversation by reducing any opinion contrary to yours to that of a child.

I'm not sure how you manipulated the thread once again into an attack on left wing values unless they're somehow are a crude reference to how different people respond to the thread topic?

the sentence in relation to segregation appears to suggest that it is ok to marginalise minorities as they like it, you rationalise that by expressing that they refuse to integrate.
I do not accept that personally, however I feel that is a topic for another thread as it is drawing the conversation further and further away from the discussion here.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I just went back and checked, there was around 8 posts deleted in this thread none of them were Kizzys though

Thanks to you both for highlighting that for me