[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Trans women are still on the same level as Men as far as physical strength goes so can never be a victim in the same way as a woman. That will never change. They only had one muscle removed not the strength related ones.

Exactly why i’m against transsexual women competing against real women in sports.

[Jake.]

And just like that, domestic abuse against men is solved!

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

What is your definition of woman, that includes male people? have never heard one, ever.



India is a transwoman. India will always be a transwoman. Unless India decides to detransition, at which stage India is a man. But India will never be a 'woman' unless...the meaning of woman has changed, in which case I would love to hear what the new meaning is.

Again, please let me know what the definition of woman is, if not adult human female.

India identified as woman her whole life... but didn't have the means to make that transition, nor the societal backing, till later in life.
India is a woman. This is why being referred to as him or he is grating to her.

Honestly though Vicky.. I have read enough of you transphobic views to know there is no point in discussing this with you. But India is a woman. She went into the house as a woman. Is she a bit of a part with issues... yes... as are most CBB contestants. But she is a woman.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Tbf, I too would define someone like India as a woman. The main difference is I could also define someone like India as a transwoman too, which can't be said for 99%+ of women.

I know a lot of people say 'transwomen are women'. I would genuinely love to hear an explanation of what a woman is, if it includes transwomen.

I don't understand what on earth is so wrong about saying as transwoman is a transwoman. Why must a transwoman be an actual woman. Trans is a large part of who they are, why the need to erase this? I would actually say this whole 'transwoman are women' thing is transphobic as it is making out that trans is something that needs to be hidden..like a dirty little secret!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Mokka

India identified as woman her whole life... but didn't have the means to make that transition, nor the societal backing, till later in life.
India is a woman. This is why being referred to as him or he is grating to her.

Honestly though Vicky.. I have read enough of you transphobic views to know there is no point in discussing this with you. But India is a woman. She went into the house as a woman. Is she a bit of a part with issues... yes... as are most CBB contestants. But she is a woman.

Again, what is your definition of a woman if it is not adult human female? Words need to actually mean something

And thank you. Transphobia is such a meaningless term these days anyway. I take that as a compliment.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Oh please.

You do women a disservice bringing the victim word into it.

Men can be victim to domestic abuse from women too you know.

Usually because they are too nice to hit back and defend themselves. The women know that and are cowards. But the amount of men killed through domestic violence bears no resemblance to that of female victims of domestic violence. Going off point a bit though aren’t we.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I know a lot of people say 'transwomen are women'. I would genuinely love to hear an explanation of what a woman is, if it includes transwomen.

I don't understand what on earth is so wrong about saying as transwoman is a transwoman. Why must a transwoman be an actual woman. Trans is a large part of who they are, why the need to erase this? I would actually say this whole 'transwoman are women' thing is transphobic as it is making out that trans is something that needs to be hidden..like a dirty little secret!

I guess I prioritise the mind they have today over the genitals they had at birth, I'm guessing you don't. India is a woman, and she knows this, and thats good enough for me.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I guess I prioritise the mind they have today over the genitals they had at birth, I'm guessing you don't. India is a woman, and she knows this, and thats good enough for me.

So what is a woman then?

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Usually because they are too nice to hit back and defend themselves. The women know that and are cowards. But the amount of men killed through domestic violence bears no resemblance to that of female victims of domestic violence. Going off point a bit though aren’t we.

Proves that strength isn’t only physical then really doesn’t it

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Usually because they are too nice to hit back and defend themselves. The women know that and are cowards. But the amount of men killed through domestic violence bears no resemblance to that of female victims of domestic violence. Going off point a bit though aren’t we.

Where did you do your research into this?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

So what is a woman then?

A person that considers themselves female. I think you're overthinking it (more than me anyway), its quite a simple thing for me.

Edit: I suppose woman/man only applies to adults, boys/girls before then.

[Marsh.]

That considers themselves?

So if I consider myself a woman right now then I am?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Trans women are still on the same level as Men as far as physical strength goes so can never be a victim in the same way as a woman. That will never change. They only had one muscle removed not the strength related ones.

This is generally false. Most of mens strength comes from testosterone. Transwomen who are on estrogen will therefor not have as much testosterone in their bodies so they will not be as strong as an average man. of course theres bone structure and muscle mass and such also, but broadly speaking, lowering ones testosterone makes one weaker. hence men being (as a group, not individually) stronger than women to start with.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That considers themselves?

So if I consider myself a woman right now then I am?

If you want to live as a female because you consider yourself to be one then yes.. i feel like you dont actually though, and this is all a metaphorical 'HA LOOPHOLE' typed thing.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Where did you do your research into this?

The stats on female victims are pretty well known. If as many men were being killed at the hands of their female partners we would know about it. Please don’t try to undermine the seriousness of domestic violence to try and prove a point on transgenders - it’s inappropriate and I have no intention of biting any further.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

If you want to live as a female because you consider yourself to be one then yes.. i feel like you dont actually though, and this is all a metaphorical 'HA LOOPHOLE' typed thing.

No. It's spelling out what you just said.

I could want to live life as a pet dog. That doesn't make me a pet dog unless I make the steps to become a dog.

(Yes I'm aware they haven't perfected Species Reassignment Surgery)

[Vicky.]

What is 'living as a female'? Following stereotypes?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This is generally false. Most of mens strength comes from testosterone. Transwomen who are on estrogen will therefor not have as much testosterone in their bodies so they will not be as strong as an average man. of course theres bone structure and muscle mass and such also, but broadly speaking, lowering ones testosterone makes one weaker. hence men being (as a group, not individually) stronger than women to start with.

That’s true.That’s why steroids work.When i was younger I actually tried them and increased my bench press by 30kg.They work.

Edited to add:Trans women will still have more muscle mass though and will be stronger.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Thanks Cherie, I'm actually fine with it, I've talked about my sexuality before on here - will do again, if it was relevant to the discussion ofcourse.

I think Livia was quite clear with her first response.

Originally Posted by Livia

No, I am not attracted to transsexuals.

Originally Posted by Smithy

But you wouldn’t know unless they told you

Originally Posted by Smithy

So up until the point of sleeping with someone... you’d form a relationship with them and then all of a sudden they just become unattractive?

Originally Posted by Smithy

So you think within one minute of meeting this man you’d click that he was trans? I very very much doubt that but if that’s the story you want to tell go for it

Originally Posted by Withano

none of you have answered Smithy though, which speaks volumes

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

So come on Livia how many have you dated

Originally Posted by Withano

I think hes asking you to think metaphorically, in a situation where you meet that blatantly attractive man, at what point would he become an unattractive transman?

Originally Posted by Smithy

Christ at least some people on this site have common sense

Originally Posted by Withano

So its more your issue than theirs? (I'm not saying you're wrong but just to clarify, this is in your own head?)

Originally Posted by Withano

It is a personal choice, but others like LT clarified that he is turned off by big hands and big feet, which is fair enough, thats his personal choice. Your personal choice (and Livia's) seems to be with the word trans itself being the turn off... which seems more your problem than theirs?

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You and the fear of a constructed penis, lol snunday afternoon on the tibb forum, more tea vicar?

Originally Posted by Withano

But that is to do with words. You would be physically into that man, until you learn he is a transman? (Unless youre an expert at spotting 'constructed penis', I'd argue that your issue is only in your own mind)

Originally Posted by Withano

I'm with you. It is hard to believe that Livia has a chromosome fetish.

Originally Posted by Withano

I simply asked you to answer a question, and even clarified in my post that you wasnt wrong in your answer, you dont have to discuss your preference if you dont want to. But I've concluded from your posts that you wouldnt date a trans because of the word trans, now I'm asking if I'm right or wrong? You dont need to get defensive.

Originally Posted by Withano

No not at all, your answers didnt make sense to me, so I wanted to clarify if I was right. LT's answer did make sense to me. I don't care what gender yoh are, many men may answer the same way as you, and I'd ask them the same questions, some women may answer in a similar way to LT, and I'd understand where theyre coming from.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This is generally false. Most of mens strength comes from testosterone. Transwomen who are on estrogen will therefor not have as much testosterone in their bodies so they will not be as strong as an average man. of course theres bone structure and muscle mass and such also, but broadly speaking, lowering ones testosterone makes one weaker. hence men being (as a group, not individually) stronger than women to start with.

Fair point I guess - but they are still stronger than biological women.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The stats on female victims are pretty well known. If as many men were being killed at the hands of their female partners we would know about it. Please don’t try to undermine the seriousness of domestic violence to try and prove a point on transgenders - it’s inappropriate and I have no intention of biting any further.

Biting? We're having a discussion. If that offends you then feel free to leave.

I was referring more to you seemingly confirming that most male victims of domestic violence are only so because they're too polite to hit back as opposed to being an actual victim from someone abusing their mentally and maybe physically weaker partner.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Fair point I guess - but they are still stronger than biological women.

Yes.Still more muscle mass

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Fair point I guess - but they are still stronger than biological women.

Oh yes, definitely. On an overall level, its silly to get into this 'this woman may be stronger than this man' as obviously there are outliers to all groups.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think Livia was quite clear with her first response.

Not pretty. Only disturbing.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

What is 'living as a female'? Following stereotypes?

Whatever each individual wants it to be, India clearly wants to be a female, clearly believes that she is, from my perspective that makes her a woman... and Luke A is a man.. but they are also a transwoman and transman from my perspective too.

For me, it is more to do with their brain, and less to do with their genitals, and thats the definition that I use.