[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I just don't see the problem with keeping the girls and just adding guys to the mix as well, women and gays like racing too.

that would be a more progressive solution

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

...Seriously though. I'm struggling to get my head around this comment, honestly. I mean yes, we all know that LT is on the wind up, and Alf is probably a bit of a perv, but other than that... a lot of male members including myself have commented in this thread and the idea that the above bolded statement actually applies? Look back at the male members who have commented here and tell me that you genuinely think that "it's about having scantily clad objects to drool over". That's a pretty big statement to be making about people who in my opinion, it does not apply to in any way shape or form.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Not All Men Are Like That disclaimer. Some do care, obviously. But not as many who are up in arms about this singular issue

I am not trying to silence male opinions on this btw. I find it bloody hilarious how so many men who are generally silent on issues to do with womens rights are suddenly interested in womens rights. And many of them are simply concerned about their eye candy disappearing. This is all.

Vicky made the allegation about "men in general" talking about social media commentary - which I already think is incorrect, short-sighted and sexist

Men on my social media feed are indeed only up in arms as they are pervs. I know these people (unfortunately in some cases) and seeing them pretend to care about the womens income is hilarious. Infact, many have since turned to misogynistic language and insults about appearances against anyone who has a slightly opposing view so I think that may be my point proved.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I just don't see the problem with keeping the girls and just adding guys to the mix as well, women and gays like racing too.

I imagine as the scantily clad guys would not sell products.

It has actually been said a few times now elsewhere that this is nothing to do with womens rights or outdated sexism, but that its because the girls are no longer profitable for the companies involved. Of course there is no way of knowing that thats true and it could just be completely made up. But generally things are profit driven rather than ethics driven

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I imagine as the scantily clad guys would not sell products.

It has actually been said a few times now elsewhere that this is nothing to do with womens rights or outdated sexism, but that its because the girls are no longer profitable for the companies involved. Of course there is no way of knowing that thats true and it could just be completely made up. But generally things are profit driven rather than ethics driven

I would be inclined to believe this, they seem to have jumped very quickly to remove them, when there really isn't any need, the grid girls are hardly likely to be groped like those at the Presidents fund raiser

[bots]

i would hire them to change my tires when i return from the shops and cheer me in the driveway

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I imagine as the scantily clad guys would not sell products.

It has actually been said a few times now elsewhere that this is nothing to do with womens rights or outdated sexism, but that its because the girls are no longer profitable for the companies involved. Of course there is no way of knowing that thats true and it could just be completely made up. But generally things are profit driven rather than ethics driven

Abercrombie and Fitch? Although they axed their male models at the storefront because it was sexist and outdated. That was two years ago and no one said a bloody word.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I would be inclined to believe this, they seem to have jumped very quickly to remove them, when there really isn't any need, the grid girls are hardly likely to be groped like those at the Presidents fund raiser

Yup, remove them and out the blame elsewhere. If this is whats happened, its pretty genius really.

I still think that jobs where women are basically just seen as objects (and lesser than the cars, in this case) shouldn't really exist in the first place though. I do think its a step in the right direction to be abolishing them, whatever the actual reasons for doing so. Yes its sad for the girls who have lost their gig (its not a job really is it..as its only a day or so a year) but if it goes towards stopping men (NAMALT disclaimer again..) viewing women as just a thing thats there for their viewing/sexual pleasure then its a good thing IMO.

I don't buy the 'sex positive liberal feminism' tbh, as it seems to be all about men. I think I am now (oddly enough I would not have classed myself as a feminist until a year or so ago, maybe less) whats known as a second waver. I know I am not old enough to be such but everything they fought for, I agree with. I used to think prostitution should be legalized (check old prostitution threads..I was very much for this)..I am now of the opinion that the Nordic model is the way to go..where the prostitutes (male and female, not just female) are not breaking the law, but the punters are. It took a while to get where I am now, and I may well swing back at some stage, but so much of 'radical feminism' (which does not, as I thought, mean extremist) makes so much sense to me. Though I still don't understand the patriarcy arguments tbh.

[Vicky.]

Wow, a lot of brackets in that

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Abercrombie and Fitch? Although they axed their male models at the storefront because it was sexist and outdated. That was two years ago and no one said a bloody word.

So men (nor women) did not care about men losing their jobs where they paraded round in underwear. I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup, remove them and out the blame elsewhere. If this is whats happened, its pretty genius really.

I still think that jobs where women are basically just seen as objects (and lesser than the cars, in this case) shouldn't really exist in the first place though. I do think its a step in the right direction to be abolishing them, whatever the actual reasons for doing so. Yes its sad for the girls who have lost their gig (its not a job really is it..as its only a day or so a year) but if it goes towards stopping men (NAMALT disclaimer again..) viewing women as just a thing thats there for their viewing/sexual pleasure then its a good thing IMO.

I don't buy the 'sex positive liberal feminism' tbh, as it seems to be all about men. I think I am now (oddly enough I would not have classed myself as a feminist until a year or so ago, maybe less) whats known as a second waver. I know I am not old enough to be such but everything they fought for, I agree with. I used to think prostitution should be legalized (check old prostitution threads..I was very much for this)..I am now of the opinion that the Nordic model is the way to go..where the prostitutes (male and female, not just female) are not breaking the law, but the punters are. It took a while to get where I am now, and I may well swing back at some stage, but so much of 'radical feminism' (which does not, as I thought, mean extremist) makes so much sense to me. Though I still don't understand the patriarcy arguments tbh.

I have just heard some guy on the radio saying that in the hospitality tents 95 per cent of the hostesses greeting are female!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

So men (nor women) did not care about men losing their jobs where they paraded round in underwear. I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

So men (nor women) did not care about men losing their jobs where they paraded round in underwear. I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

Yes... you're as shocked as I am.

[thesheriff443]

selling the life style of fast cars and hot women, they need Aristas sex robots now

[Kizzy]

Getting some men to see women as more than just tits and arse is hard...getting some women to see themselves as more than jut tits and arse is harder :/

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I just don't see the problem with keeping the girls and just adding guys to the mix as well, women and gays like racing too.

...yeah this would seem the obvious, Dezzy... to make the grid people inclusive of both male and female, rather than to say, oh we’re just going to get rid of completely..as it is with actual sports themselves which for instance had traditionally in the past been predominantly male or female...obviously there has been progression in many/most sports so there are now female F1 drivers, which wouldn’t have always been a thing, so it feels why can’t they extend this to the grid girls as well to include all genders and progress in all aspects..I mean they don’t have to obviously if that isn’t what they feel promotes the F1 image either but it would consider and prevent disappointment that seems to have been felt by grid girls...

...I don’t follow or know much about F1 racing tbh, would a grid girl equate to being something like a cheerleader in American sports..?...obviously there is some purpose other than just cheering on...but it would possibly be something a young lady would love to do in giving her much pleasure..?...and also opportunities to be so up front and personal with the whole F1 thing and drivers and mechanics etc, that maybe those are careers she is looking to be a part of in her future..so being a grid girl would be giving her opportunities to meet and chat with those who are at the very top in achievements of what she may be hoping for herself..?...and then maybe things like modelling etc as well could be a thing of a young girl thinking it’s a great opportunity to become ‘noticed’ through maybe some very high profile fashion houses having representation there in attending the event, if that tends to be the case as well...hoping she may be the next ‘Dior face’ because she’d been noticed and picked out as it were when she was a grid girl and that very important person had attended and noticed her/..and equally with guys if they were to be included.....who knows with those opportunities...but yeah, making things inclusive for all would seem more the thing to ‘lose’ one image and progress to another...

[user104658]

Cheerleaders will be next to go, Ammi, and quite right too! Disgusting hussies in their short skirts, giving all women a bad name by having filthy pig-men leering at them. Ban this filth! Cropped short hair and cargo trousers for every one of them.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Cheerleaders will be next to go, Ammi, and quite right too! Disgusting hussies in their short skirts, giving all women a bad name by having filthy pig-men leering at them. Ban this filth! Cropped short hair and cargo trousers for every one of them.

...ahhh and here was me thinking that cheerleading would become more inclusive of males as well at some point.. and that maybe you would also consider becoming one yourself so we could all cheer you on with your cheering on...I also think you might look quite fetching is a short skirt, TS......

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Kizzy;9845493]Getting some men to see women as more than just tits and arse is hard...getting some women to see themselves as more than jut tits and arse is harder :/[/QUOTE]

that's a bit preachy, do you really know what is best for every woman or what their thoughts are

[bots]

Everyone in life promotes their best features. If someone is knowledgeable about trains, they speak about trains. If someone has shiny wavy hair, they grow long hair to show it off. Are we now saying that people should hide what are potentially the things that give them the most confidence in life?

Not everyone is the same and its ridiculous to apply the same rules to everyone.

[jaxie]

It's difficult because the girls have the right to choose to do the job and get paid for it. On the other hand if we are going to stop objectifying women, it has to start somewhere and somehow.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...ahhh and here was me thinking that cheerleading would become more inclusive of males as well at some point.. and that maybe you would also consider becoming one yourself so we could all cheer you on with your cheering on...I also think you might look quite fetching is a short skirt, TS......

Actually there are male cheerleaders as well as female

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Actually there are male cheerleaders as well as female

George W Bush was one! Although that's not really an endorsement, I know.

I don't have much of a problem with grid girls, walk on girls... any of that. Where I think it is problematic is that the message it gives young women is this: You can do this, you can earn good money, fund your education, meet eligible men, travel the world.... but only if you're tall, thin and pretty. Because that's what matters and that's how we work out your value as a woman.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

George W Bush was one! Although that's not really an endorsement, I know.

I don't have much of a problem with grid girls, walk on girls... any of that. Where I think it is problematic is that the message it gives young women is this: You can do this, you can earn good money, fund your education, meet eligible men, travel the world.... but only if you're tall, thin and pretty. Because that's what matters and that's how we work out your value as a woman.

And if you point any of that out you must be fat, old and ugly because clearly any good looking girl would love to be flaunting it all for men

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

And if you point any of that out you must be fat, old and ugly because clearly any good looking girl would love to be flaunting it all for men

Well that's clearly not true... we're ****ing gorgeous.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well that's clearly not true... we're ****ing gorgeous.

Some pics, preferably at the race track please