[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Yeah, this argument gets used quite a bit during discussions regarding whether or not feminism has gone too far. The simple answer is that they're not feminists. Special treatment is not what feminism is about at all. The sooner we can all accept that, the sooner we can all stop assuming that actual feminists are the same as them, and conjuring up criticisms that do not apply to them.

I know that's why they're called "feminazi's" because they abuse the true meaning of feminism. I still don't like the word feminism but that's my preference.

However I'm a woman that supports equal rights for both genders absolutely. And I hear stories of women feeling pressured for example to wear high heels in the work place , things like that shock and get me angry .

If I was in that situation I'd tell the person to F off if they were making it mandatory to wear high heels etc then I'd quit the job and complain, it's 21st century not the 1950's with pointy bra's .

By all means sensible shoes ,and appropriate clothing. But there's some women that can't wear heels for medical reasons .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I know that's why they're called "feminazi's" because they abuse the true meaning of feminism. I still don't like the word feminism but that's my preference.

However I'm a woman that supports equal rights for both genders absolutely. And I hear stories of women feeling pressured for example to wear high heels in the work place , things like that shock and get me angry .

If I was in that situation I'd tell the person to F off if they were making it mandatory to wear high heels etc then I'd quit the job and complain, it's 21st century not the 1950's with pointy bra's .

By all means sensible shoes ,and appropriate clothing. But there's some women that can't wear heels for medical reasons .

**** medical reasons, they're really uncomfortable, that should be enough reason imo!

Totally offtopic, I always assumed you were male sorry

[Marches]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Many women in this country are treat like dirt and repressed because they are female tbh. Yes its much worse in many other countries, but I am kind of sick of this assumption that because we have laws that are equal in this country now that women have it just fine and dandy. They don't.

No, its not quite as bad as it used to be. But its not good, nor anywhere NEAR equal either.

Both genders are treated poorly
All races are treated poorly
Gay people are treated poorly for being gay and in the flip side straight people are treated poorly for being straight

The merit for movements like this back when the treatment of woman was appalling and they outright didn’t have rights was fine, but because of social media the movement has lost its focus and has become rather obsolete. I had feminism shoved down my throat purely because am a woman multiple times and they get offended when I say I’m not. They try to make out to other woman that they’re victims and that they should feel bad, it’s like an oppression olympics.

The fact is, the treatment of women in the first world is far from perfect, sure, but it’s so much better than it’s ever been, and in certain both real life and online circles and in certain rights, woman now have the upper hand. Weve moved past the point where we need mass protests and movements and such for gender equality because it’s regressive considering the point we are in society.

Why can’t we all just label ourselves as good human beings and do our part in making sure EVERYONE has rights and an equal playing field regardless of colour or sexuality or gender, not just certain people? Why do we feel the need to wear labels like feminism on our shirts and claim ‘I’m for equality if ur not a feminist ur not pro equality’? It’s so regressive it literally achieves nothing and it’s created a generation of people with victim complexes

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marches

Both genders are treated poorly
All races are treated poorly
Gay people are treated poorly for being gay and in the flip side straight people are treated poorly for being straight

The merit for movements like this back when the treatment of woman was appalling and they outright didn’t have rights was fine, but because of social media the movement has lost its focus and has become rather obsolete. I had feminism shoved down my throat purely because am a woman multiple times and they get offended when I say I’m not. They try to make out to other woman that they’re victims and that they should feel bad, it’s like an oppression olympics.

The fact is, the treatment of women in the first world is far from perfect, sure, but it’s so much better than it’s ever been, and in certain both real life and online circles and in certain rights, woman now have the upper hand. Weve moved past the point where we need mass protests and movements and such for gender equality because it’s regressive considering the point we are in society.

Why can’t we all just label ourselves as good human beings and do our part in making sure EVERYONE has rights and an equal playing field regardless of colour or sexuality or gender, not just certain people? Why do we feel the need to wear labels like feminism on our shirts and claim ‘I’m for equality if ur not a feminist ur not pro equality’? It’s so regressive it literally achieves nothing and it’s created a generation of people with victim complexes

How are straight people treated poorly for being straight? that's absolutely not true

[Vicky.]

In which rights do women have the upper hand?

[Vicky.]

And yes, people are treat poorly for a variety of reasons. But there is systematic sexism against women, like there is systematic racism against POC, and there is systematic homophobia against gay people. Single people are single people and are not responsible for the overwhelming sexism, racism and homophobia thats rampant in society, unless they themselves are sexist, racist, homophobic (and a lot of people are without realising it too..unconcious bias). But denying that disadvantaged groups are disadvantaged really does noone any favours.

[Marches]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And yes, people are treat poorly for a variety of reasons. But there is systematic sexism against women, like there is systematic racism against POC, and there is systematic homophobia against gay people. Single people are single people and are not responsible for the overwhelming sexism, racism and homophobia thats rampant in society, unless they themselves are sexist, racist, homophobic (and a lot of people are without realising it too..unconcious bias). But denying that disadvantaged groups are disadvantaged really does noone any favours.

Everyone experiences systematic sexism to an extent. I could outline both sides but I think they should be pretty obvious

Also in response to ur post above, divorse settlements child custody battles access to domestic abuse shelters favoured in sexual abuse cases (in a lot men are often guilty until proven innocent)

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I did start one about Labour electing a 19 year old male as their womans officer where I went into a lot of this. Have started a few on this issue actually. I started a thread about the serious threats I had recieved for donating to a fundraiser that was against self ID...my issue at the moment with this stuff (and why I tend to keep talk to PM now..though do sometimes have outbursts on the main board) is that they are already combing the net for social media accounts to link. I have had to delete a bunch of older posts incase they managed to link my account here to the other ones they have a spreadsheet on..there are entire groups of people trying to dox women who speak out about this, and unfortunately I am one of the ones on 'the list'. As I said I made a thread about that, but thought against it and deleted it as it may help them link this account to the others they have on their spreadsheet. So I need to try and control myself a bit when ranting about this, just incase. I THINK I have deleted all posts that mention where I actually live or anything that would make me identifiable...but I am not totally sure (as I cannot realistically go back over 55k posts) so I am a bit worried that I haven't. I have no issue talking about it. I do have an issue when they may take it a little further than the rape/death threats I have already recieved and actually turn up at my house or something :S If I didn't have the kids, this would not bother me, but I have to think about their safety too and these nutter are..well..extremist nutters.

I will think about it. Issue is, most papers and such are not reporting on it, the times does regular coverage but its paywalled. Daily mail does coverage sometimes but its..the daily mail and is often from an actual transphobic angle rather than pro-womens rights angle. Share tokens on the times only last for so long, and I don't think I am allowed to paste the entire article. And with no sources, I will be accused of making it up Hell even with sources sometimes I am accused of making it up

I hope people who are claiming, yeah, women in the West are doing okay and I don't like the word Feminist... read your post. How awful that a woman standing up for women is threatened with rape and murder.

I'd be happy to start a thread.... I'd need to discuss it with you first though.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Marches

Everyone experiences systematic sexism to an extent. I could outline both sides but I think they should be pretty obvious

Also in response to ur post above, divorse settlements child custody battles access to domestic abuse shelters favoured in sexual abuse cases (in a lot men are often guilty until proven innocent)

Divorce settlements are usually because of child custody issues (ie whichever parent has custody of children will get the house, speaking broadly) which I will move onto in a sec

Child custody, again is not because of sex, its down to who, before the split, did the majority of childcare. Its to make sure the childrens lives are disrupted as little as possible. If more men did the lionshare of child related things, then they would win more custody battles. Luckily, with paternity leave and such being increased and more and more families being 'less traditional' (ie woman works, father is in the house) this will even out. But again, not disadvantaged due to sex. If me and my husband split tomorrow, he would 100% 'get the kids' if we ended up going through the courts.

Domestic abuse shelters yes. But this is because the majority of people needing shelters are women. There should be more for men of course but its a supply and demand thing tbh. I don't want to be hoping for more male victims of serious DV so that refuges are 50/50 tbh

Sexual abuse cases, wow. Near all sexual abuse is committed by men. And most get off with it. So not sure that proves your point at all. I completely disagree with guilty until proven innocent. But this very very rarely happens.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How are straight people treated poorly for being straight? that's absolutely not true

Some people like to throw around reverse labels to a crazy extent.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Divorce settlements are usually because of child custody issues (ie whichever parent has custody of children will get the house, speaking broadly) which I will move onto in a sec

Child custody, again is not because of sex, its down to who, before the split, did the majority of childcare. Its to make sure the childrens lives are disrupted as little as possible. If more men did the lionshare of child related things, then they would win more custody battles. Luckily, with paternity leave and such being increased and more and more families being 'less traditional' (ie woman works, father is in the house) this will even out. But again, not disadvantaged due to sex. If me and my husband split tomorrow, he would 100% 'get the kids' if we ended up going through the courts.

Domestic abuse shelters yes. But this is because the majority of people needing shelters are women. There should be more for men of course but its a supply and demand thing tbh. I don't want to be hoping for more male victims of serious DV so that refuges are 50/50 tbh

Sexual abuse cases, wow. Near all sexual abuse is committed by men. And most get off with it. So not sure that proves your point at all. I completely disagree with guilty until proven innocent. But this very very rarely happens.

Shelters for battered women is always brought into the discussion, as is the fact that more is spent on breast cancer than on prostate cancer. The simple fact is that women fundraise for these causes. Yes a certain amount of funding is available... but I've been to countless dinners, bought loads of draw tickets etc., raising money for victims of domestic abuse, Breast Cancer Care... I drove a bloody tractor covered in pink bows a couple of years ago to raise money for breast cancer. I've never once been approached to contribute to any kind of fundraising that's been organised by men, for men.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

Shelters for battered women is always brought into the discussion, as is the fact that more is spent on breast cancer than on prostate cancer. The simple fact is that women fundraise for these causes. Yes a certain amount of funding is available... but I've been to countless dinners, bought loads of draw tickets etc., raising money for victims of domestic abuse, Breast Cancer Care... I drove a bloody tractor covered in pink bows a couple of years ago to raise money for breast cancer. I've never once been approached to contribute to any kind of fundraising that's been organised by men, for men.

Happy to pass the tin round to collect for my visit to Hooters

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Happy to pass the tin round to collect for my visit to Hooters

The cheque is in the post, don't forget to tip your waitress.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

**** medical reasons, they're really uncomfortable, that should be enough reason imo!

Totally offtopic, I always assumed you were male sorry

Yeah the fact they're uncomfortable is enough reason. But there is some women who have other problems etc that's why I said medical reasons. And no I'm female what made you think otherwise?? .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah the fact they're uncomfortable is enough reason. But there is some women who have other problems etc that's why I said medical reasons. And no I'm female what made you think otherwise?? .

I have no idea I think lots of people thought I was male too when I first joined

[Vicky.]

Some members I get so wrong, I read them as very male and they turn out to be women. Others I read as female, and it turns out they are male. And some, I read as male, they claim they are female for ages and ages, and then it turns out they were male all along

I think avatars with newer members does this too. Once you get to know someone a bit more it seems more obvious...obviously. But I do tend to assume that those with male avatars are male and such, even when the avatars are of BB contestants.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I have no idea I think lots of people thought I was male too when I first joined

I knew you were female , you're Irish too aren't you ? . But sometimes it's hard to know who's male & female on here .

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Some members I get so wrong, I read them as very male and they turn out to be women. Others I read as female, and it turns out they are male. And some, I read as male, they claim they are female for ages and ages, and then it turns out they were male all along

I think avatars with newer members does this too. Once you get to know someone a bit more it seems more obvious...obviously. But I do tend to assume that those with male avatars are male and such, even when the avatars are of BB contestants.

My avatar is of Shane Lynch .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I knew you were female , you're Irish too aren't you ? . But sometimes it's hard to know who's male & female on here .

Well it's obvious now cos I've been hanging out in the feminism threads so much But when i first joined I only really posted in the BB section for the first few months and yes I'm Irish

[Maru]

Feminism is still relevant. There are diseases that effect females predominantly for example, that are not well-understood and in many cases, not taken seriously... the movement in the foreground may not directly petition for these causes, but it does effect these things because seeing other women step forward to talk about specific wrongs in their world near them, it is empowering other women (in the background) to step forward and to fight for their own specific causes... interstitial cystitis for example, 9 of 10 patients are women. It used to be a 7 year average rate of diagnosis and it wasn't widely understood. Now even your average PCP knows what it is, takes it very seriously and there are more medications & treatments for it when there used to be very few (and expensive) options. A simple pill solves my problems... a vast majority of this is due to the fact there is such a supportive and active female community that has been pushing for treatment, who helped with FMLA, who put together organizations to help pay for the expensive treatments. I participated in a study for it and I honestly couldn't have gotten through without the incredible support system that came from the hospital and also online as there are many supportive communities as well.

Women's communities are the bomb, you know. I've always made sure to have a female-only board on any of the communities I ran. Usually the topics are boring enough to keep the men away even if they were to "sneak" in. On one forum I participated in several years ago, the women were a minority and so vulgar everytime a female topic came up... I discovered a hack that allowed anyone to create topics on unused forum ids (it was a custom CMS that someone did a sh*te job on), so I started a hidden women's section underneath their noses.

[Vicky.]

Well I learnt something from this thread. I thought cystitis was a female only illness for some reason. ****ing horrible condition. have not had it as an adult much but my god I suffered as a teen and I still remember the pain clearly.

[Vicky.]

Ew ew ew

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42912529

I didn't want to make a new thread as what on earth would I put in the OP, but this is gross and it kind of fits in a thread thats moved onto if feminism is needed today in this country.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Ew ew ew

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42912529

I didn't want to make a new thread as what on earth would I put in the OP, but this is gross and it kind of fits in a thread thats moved onto if feminism is needed today in this country.

I shared this in a group chat a week or so ago and thought there was a silver-lining to this. I was worried about computers becoming too smart, i.e. they could identify us by our faces which means people can pull up all our pictures with our faces in it... Kinda glad they can make good fakes too now which means in a way is an unintended privacy mask since computer/camera footage won't be 100% trustworthy, especially if AI image/video reproduction becomes a common thing.

On the other hand, people can maybe now take our faces and create on the fly personal porn if they want and create "remakes" etc. Those NFL graphics were a bit uncanny for me during the Superbowl yesterday in terms of what they are able to generate overlays/reproductions of simple camera footage now. It's awe-inspiring, but it's obviously a double-edged sword.

[Ammi]

...anyways....just to celebrate women and the very essence of female...a beautiful poem by Maya Angelou, who was a civil rights activist and one of the most influential women of recent times...it’s a poem that a friend ‘gave’ to me over the last little while...and it’s quite, hmm..phenomenal...




Phenominal Woman

Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please,
And to a man,
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees.
Then they swarm around me,
A hive of honey bees.
I say,
It's the fire in my eyes,
And the flash of my teeth,
The swing in my waist,
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me.
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say,
It's in the arch of my back,
The sun of my smile,
The ride of my breasts,
The grace of my style.
I'm a woman

Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed.
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud.
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say,
It's in the click of my heels,
The bend of my hair,
the palm of my hand,
The need of my care,
'Cause I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

[Vicky.]

A slightly more depressing one, about the erosion of the very word woman...

Spoiler:

He Tells Her

He tells her he's a woman too

He has a lady brain

He tells her his identity

and hers, they are the same

He tells her not to talk about

her body, it's not fair

her body is her privilege

his own, a cross to bear

He tells her that she cannot talk

or otherwise allude

to what her female body does

its nasty to exclude

He says respect diversity

except he would prefer

that she would not point out the ways

that he's diverse from her

He tells her that biology

does not impact her life

she should still bear his children

but she should call him 'wife'

He says that words must all evolve

she must learn to make do

And now that woman is his word

he's taking female too

He tells her that a woman is whatever he decides

He will not put it into words

she must not ask, he chides

He tells her he is more oppressed

than she has ever been

He says she must agree with him

or else she's being mean

She searches for the words she needs

to talk about herself

The billions who exist like her

Their lives, their rights, their health

Whatever word she chooses now

He finds a way to spin it

The conversation carries on

But she's no longer in it

From here, not sure if that poster actually wrote it or not
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_...msgid=75363686

Sorry, I read it like an hour ago and your poem reminded me of it so I had to share