[user104658]

I had to add an extra option number 5 .

My first instinct was that, while yes they were on a break, it's total BS that it would then be OK for him to straight away go off banging some random girl before knowing for certain what was going on with them. But then I remembered that he called her and heard Mark at her apartment... and although he got it wrong... at the time HE fully believed that she was taking the "break" thing as an opportunity to have sex with Mark... so his mistake is maybe justifiable from his perspective, if not overall... ... at the time that it happened, he really believed that he was only doing the same thing that she was.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I had to add an extra option number 5 .

My first instinct was that, while yes they were on a break, it's total BS that it would then be OK for him to straight away go off banging some random girl before knowing for certain what was going on with them. But then I remembered that he called her and heard Mark at her apartment... and although he got it wrong... at the time HE fully believed that she was taking the "break" thing as an opportunity to have sex with Mark... so his mistake is maybe justifiable from his perspective, if not overall... ... at the time that it happened, he really believed that he was only doing the same thing that she was.

...I think the thing was..(..and probably over thinking a bit too deeply..)...the break was never defined, was it...I mean, ‘rules’ as it were in a relationship when not on a break are important boundaries that each would or should know because they’ve been mutually established...and a ‘break’ is still remaining being in a relationship but having a little time out as it were, a break isn’t an ending of anything, it’s just the possibility of leading to an ending...actually, it’s like a playtime at school.....ok, you’re getting on my nerves now so you’re going to have some rime out, a little break from that silly behaviour..but it’s still playtime though, I mean it’s not the end of playtime..actually, I’m completely confusing myself now... I can’t even recall what the question was and what your OP said...

[Ammi]

...well yes, he was a ‘naughty boy’, because regardless of any thoughts he had about Rachel’s ‘definition’ of break, he was creating his own definition of sleeping with someone else as being ok and within the unestablished rules of ‘ a break’...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cal.

They were on a break but having sex with someone else is disgusting. A break suggests you intend to go back to it afterwards. You haven’t ended it all together. Team Rachel!

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think the thing was..(..and probably over thinking a bit too deeply..)...the break was never defined, was it...I mean, ‘rules’ as it were in a relationship when not on a break are important boundaries that each would or should know because they’ve been mutually established...and a ‘break’ is still remaining being in a relationship but having a little time out as it were, a break isn’t an ending of anything, it’s just the possibility of leading to an ending...actually, it’s like a playtime at school.....ok, you’re getting on my nerves now so you’re going to have some rime out, a little break from that silly behaviour..but it’s still playtime though, I mean it’s not the end of playtime..actually, I’m completely confusing myself now... I can’t even recall what the question was and what your OP said...

Well yes BUT... it is pretty clear that he has no intention of "breakcheating" on Rachel until he calls her apartment and hears that Mark is there. She doesn't actually do anything with Mark but he already has his jealousy issues with Mark specifically (and is shown both before and after this to have general issues with jealousy in his relationships) so at this point, you can assume that his imagination has gotten away from him and he is SURE that Rachel is having sex with Mark... and that the relationship is totally over. He then gets drunk and probably thinking, "Well if she's going to do that then I am too"... regretting it as soon as he realises that Rachel DIDN'T do anything with Mark and wants to talk.

Makes it more complicated I think. But then, even writing that now, maybe Ross shouldn't be with anyone at all until he gets his jealousy issues under control ... he was weird and controlling with her, turning up at her work and stuff, and he's pretty weird with Emily too (e.g. when she has to kiss Joey in spin the bottle, and when her Rugby-player ex is there).

But then, can you look into it more deeply? I wonder if the writers made him this way intentionally? It seems like maybe he wasn't like this in his relationship with Carol and he kinda got psychologically ****ed over there. I mean yeah, she figured out she was gay... and she should have talked to him about that and ended their marriage. But instead, she started a serious relationship with someone else behind his back, told him about it when it had been going on for a while, and also he "wasn't allowed" to be angry about it because she was coming out as gay ... like that's an excuse for having a prolonged affair before ending their marriage, or for her new partner being pretty hostile with him from the start.

So are Ross's relationship / control issues almost inevitable? Should all of the "friends" have been encouraging him to seek therapy after Carol before starting another serious relationship?

Hmmmm

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well yes BUT... it is pretty clear that he has no intention of "breakcheating" on Rachel until he calls her apartment and hears that Mark is there. She doesn't actually do anything with Mark but he already has his jealousy issues with Mark specifically (and is shown both before and after this to have general issues with jealousy in his relationships) so at this point, you can assume that his imagination has gotten away from him and he is SURE that Rachel is having sex with Mark... and that the relationship is totally over. He then gets drunk and probably thinking, "Well if she's going to do that then I am too"... regretting it as soon as he realises that Rachel DIDN'T do anything with Mark and wants to talk.

Makes it more complicated I think. But then, even writing that now, maybe Ross shouldn't be with anyone at all until he gets his jealousy issues under control ... he was weird and controlling with her, turning up at her work and stuff, and he's pretty weird with Emily too (e.g. when she has to kiss Joey in spin the bottle, and when her Rugby-player ex is there).

But then, can you look into it more deeply? I wonder if the writers made him this way intentionally? It seems like maybe he wasn't like this in his relationship with Carol and he kinda got psychologically ****ed over there. I mean yeah, she figured out she was gay... and she should have talked to him about that and ended their marriage. But instead, she started a serious relationship with someone else behind his back, told him about it when it had been going on for a while, and also he "wasn't allowed" to be angry about it because she was coming out as gay ... like that's an excuse for having a prolonged affair before ending their marriage, or for her new partner being pretty hostile with him from the start.

So are Ross's relationship / control issues almost inevitable? Should all of the "friends" have been encouraging him to seek therapy after Carol before starting another serious relationship?

Hmmmm

...yeah I do think it’s a lot to do with Carol and yeah, he was a bit weird and controlling with Emily as well...I mean he had no control over losing his marriage with Carol, it didn’t really entail having done anything wrong or anything he could have played a part in...?...he was just the wrong gender, so that would really be something so difficult in terms of a future need to ‘control’, maybe..?...also he hadn’t just lost his marriage to Carol, he had also lost Ben in terms of being a part of Ben’s every day life ...and again, something he had, had no control over but at the same time, he had no ‘fault’ to have caused it...he couldn’t feel, oh well it was all my fault, I shouldn’t have cheated, I should have been more considerate and thoughtful or whatever...I mean he was just the wrong gender for their marriage to work..?...so yeah, huge control issues with that as well...and then he thought in his head and his heart that Rachel had betrayed the break...again, out of his control...But then taking a little bit of control back, in the sleeping with someone else on the break..?...hmmmm indeed, TS...very, very hmmmmmm......

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

and then he thought in his head and his heart that Rachel had betrayed the break...again, out of his control...But then taking a little bit of control back, in the sleeping with someone else on the break..?...hmmmm indeed, TS...very, very hmmmmmm......

Yeah - maybe like a "I can't handle this happening this way again", and then a sort of unconscious decision to sabotage it himself instead? Like it would be somehow easier for him to say "I did it" than "It was done to me, again".

But then when he finds out that he got it wrong and it really was just him that did it, he can't handle the guilt / responsibility. He tries desperately to hide that it ever happened, and then despite saying that he's sorry and did a bad thing during their break up episode, as soon as they are actually broken up (and pretty much ever after) he hides behind the "we were on a break" mantra to absolve himself. He knows how he felt with Carol, and he can't handle being "The Carol" of his own relationship .

See now I'm totally wondering if we're looking into it too much, or the Friend's writer really did put all of this deliberate thought into it .