[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Do you know the difference between gender and sex? Because any F/M trans of the same age as you, also going through their transistion tomorrow would not have that same wealth of experience as a woman. They likely never saw themselves as a woman, and likely never lived their life as one. Their gender was never female and yours was - that parallel you tried to draw doesn't exist really.

I think this is the issue personally. People thinking you're only a different person after the operation. Its not the case. It was daft when Hegerty implied it, its still daft now.

imo the difference between gender and sex is one is biology and the other is a bunch of stereotypes

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

imo the difference between gender and sex is one is biology and the other is a bunch of stereotypes

Well yeh, and thats the issue. You're ignoring neural connective patterns, white matter, gray matter, testosterone, estrogen, oxytocin and hippocampus size.. which naturally created the stereotypes you speak of. There's reasons that women and transwomen tend to be more verbal and why men and transmen tend to have poorer memory. The brains are literally different.

Assuming trans people are that way because they fit a stereotype is absurd honestly. Your gender is always in your brain, some people with penis' have a brain more akin to a woman, but some will be midway between, and some would resemble the brain of neither sex. Its just a thing that has always happened, and will always happen.

Nobody is trans just because they like make-up and used to play with dolls. Its the assumption that they are which is transphobic.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Well yeh, and thats the issue. You're ignoring neural connective patterns, white matter, gray matter, testosterone, estrogen, oxytocin and hippocampus size.. which naturally created the stereotypes you speak of. There's reasons that women and transwomen tend to be more verbal and why men and transmen tend to have poorer memory. The brains are literally different.

Assuming trans people are that way because they fit a stereotype is absurd honestly. Your gender is always in your brain, some people with penis' have a brain more akin to a woman, but some will be midway between, and some would resemble the brain of neither sex. Its just a thing that has always happened, and will always happen.

Nobody is trans just because they like make-up and used to play with dolls. Its the assumption that they are which is transphobic.

I'm not ignoring anything, I just disagree with you. You give an example there of women being more verbal than men, that's a stereotype. I'm not verbal at all irl, Gav is very verbal, does that mean I'm a man and he's a woman? no of course not. Biology and life experience of being treated as a woman because of that biology is what makes a woman a woman and a man a man imo.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not ignoring anything, I just disagree with you. You give an example there of women being more verbal than men, that's a stereotype. I'm not verbal at all irl, Gav is very verbal, does that mean I'm a man and he's a woman? no of course not. Biology and life experience of being treated as a woman because of that biology is what makes a woman a woman and a man a man imo.

Of course there are exclusions. There are hundreds of differences, that is one of the main ones. Women and transwomen tend to be more verbal than men and transmen on average, because women and transwomen have verbal hemispheres on both sides of the brain, and men and transmen do not. That is not to say that every woman and transwoman uses it very often, but it is there. It exists.
Ie: Gav uses the little he does have excellently, and you use yours less despite having more scattered around your brain (assuming youre both cis).
You can disagree with this undeniable difference if you want, but your refusal to acknowledge these differences are literally scaffolding your less-than-positive reviews of transpeople, and thats a shame.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Of course there are exclusions. There are hundreds of differences, that is one of the main ones. Women and transwomen tend to be more verbal than men and transmen on average, because women and transwomen have verbal hemispheres on both sides of the brain, and men and transmen do not. That is not to say that every woman and transwoman uses it very often, but it is there. It exists.
Ie: Gav uses the little he does have excellently, and you use yours less despite having more scattered around your brain (assuming youre both cis).
You can disagree with this undeniable difference if you want, but your refusal to acknowledge these differences are literally scaffolding your less-than-positive reviews of transpeople, and thats a shame.

that word "cis" annoys me too.

I'm pretty sure the whole brain debate is inconclusive actually, you've just chosen to believe the studies that support your POV

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

that word "cis" annoys me too.

I'm pretty sure the whole brain debate is inconclusive actually, you've just chosen to believe the studies that support your POV

They're not at all inconclusive, they're extremely visibile on fmri scans. Several differences between male and female brains have been recorded, thats just a thing thats 100% guaranteed.

Soz for annoying you with the word cis.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

They're not at all inconclusive, they're extremely visibile on fmri scans. Several differences between male and female brains have been recorded, thats just a thing thats 100% guaranteed.

Soz for annoying you with the word cis.

They actually are

https://www.newscientist.com/article...-female-brain/

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

that word "cis" annoys me too.

I'm pretty sure the whole brain debate is inconclusive actually, you've just chosen to believe the studies that support your POV

I actually find being called cis offensive. It feels like people trying to label women in a way to validate trans women more. The difference is where I would be generally polite in calling a trans woman she, even when she looks like a man, I doubt any of her supporters would show me the same politeness in not using the word cis in relation to me and my gender.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I actually find being called cis offensive. It feels like people trying to label women in a way to validate trans women more. The difference is where I would be generally polite in calling a trans woman she, even when she looks like a man, I doubt any of her supporters would show me the same politeness in not using the word cis in relation to me and my gender.

Cis is a word given to men too? It just means your sex and your gender correlate. As a way to differentiate between you and a transwoman, or me and a transman.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I actually find being called cis offensive. It feels like people trying to label women in a way to validate trans women more. The difference is where I would be generally polite in calling a trans woman she, even when she looks like a man, I doubt any of her supporters would show me the same politeness in not using the word cis in relation to me and my gender.

Cis literally means you identify as the sex you were born. Nothing offensive about it.