[jaxie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Part of the problem on this forum at the moment is there are two distinct types of posters.
These transgender views and topics are a fairly recent issue, one of which some of the older members of the forum are not familiar with, new terminology, cis etc. Younger posters are more used to an all accepting (or more accepting) population. We all need to be more understanding and informed about issues. The problems that a lot of people have is the manner in which more informed members of this forum try to educate. I have many times typed out a question and then not posted because I cant be arsed with the "duh...[insert patronising insulting reply]" from a section of this forum

Like on this page, cherie posted a question, Shaun answered and Marsh answered. Both basically with the same information but one to the point end of the other with barbed patronising language. And you wonder why people bite?

That's a very good post and I agree with some of it. But I will disagree that some of us 'need educating'. As women we've spent a lifetime fighting for just the right to be treated as an equal and it still isn't happening, you've seen the recent news on gender pay issues to name but one. Now along comes another group telling we aren't even women anymore. No. This isn't even an issue about transgender or transsexual people. I don't have any problem with how someone wants/needs to live their life. I have a problem with someone trying to redefine my identity and trying to 'include' someone at my expense.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

That's a very good post and I agree with some of it. But I will disagree that some of us 'need educating'. As women we've spent a lifetime fighting for just the right to be treated as an equal and it still isn't happening, you've seen the recent news on gender pay issues to name but one. Now along comes another group telling we aren't even women anymore. No. This isn't even an issue about transgender or transsexual people. I don't have any problem with how someone wants/needs to live their life. I have a problem with someone trying to redefine my identity and trying to 'include' someone at my expense.

Completely agree Jaxie. We should not be expected to tolerate others trying to redefine our identity. We know who we are and do not need to be dictated to by anyone about what we do or do not accept. It isn’t our responsibility to define others or to suffer any negative consequences as a result.

[Candy Annie Cane]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Completely agree Jaxie. We should not be expected to tolerate others trying to redefine our identity. We know who we are and do not need to be dictated to by anyone about what we do or do not accept. It isn’t our responsibility to define others or to suffer any negative consequences as a result.

But as women we expected to be treated as equals and men had to be educated to do that so surely as times move on as women we should be more aware of discrimination and try to embrace change. We don't have to change our own definitions but we do need to recognise change in my opinion

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

But as women we expected to be treated as equals and men had to be educated to do that so surely as times move on as women we should be more aware of discrimination and try to embrace change. We don't have to change our own definitions but we do need to recognise change in my opinion

Recognising change is one thing but certain proposals such as self-identified non-transitioned men using ladies bathrooms is stamping over the rights of women on several levels. There are potential problems with that that concern many women and rightly so. This is not really the case for men though.

As far as I am aware Women have never even been asked about their views on this which I find astonishing considering the implications for them. It says a lot about how their views are valued by some including transwomen. It comes across as some seeing their rights as more important. I find the whole thing quite frustrating.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

That's a very good post and I agree with some of it. But I will disagree that some of us 'need educating'. As women we've spent a lifetime fighting for just the right to be treated as an equal and it still isn't happening, you've seen the recent news on gender pay issues to name but one. Now along comes another group telling we aren't even women anymore. No. This isn't even an issue about transgender or transsexual people. I don't have any problem with how someone wants/needs to live their life. I have a problem with someone trying to redefine my identity and trying to 'include' someone at my expense.

Nobody has changed your identity. Your identity is the exact same. You were always cisgendered. Your gender and your sex always correlated, unlike bigender, agender, and transgender women. The word woman is a collective term for all groups of women (whether you like that or not), cisgendered is specifically designed to separate you from the other groups when needed.

[jaxie]

Thanks

Originally Posted by Withano

Nobody has changed your identity. Your identity is the exact same. You were always cisgendered. Your gender and your sex always correlated, unlike bigender, agender, and transgender women. The word woman is a collective term for all groups of women (whether you like that or not), cisgendered is specifically designed to separate you from the other groups when needed.

The big difference between us Withano is if you or any other member found a term offensive or didn't like it I would immediately out of politeness stop using it. You on the other hand are delighting in using it. I don't have anything else to say to someone like that.