[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Adam.

They should only be allowed if they are legally that gender not because they go around saying they are

I agree, I've already said that

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Adam.

This is laughable

It really is. Also, specialgender types nearly all seem to be well off people with no real problems in life. I've never heard of someone who lives on a council estate and has real problems say crap like "I'm an agender nonbinary, and my pronouns are they/ze"

[Greg!]

Lol just want to clarify that I don't consider myself "non binary" or whatever, I meant I am skeptical about it but I worded my post wrong

[Vicky.]

I am a special snowflake when going off the labels people like to use these days

I am a non-binary a-gender female

Yay,. go me I am special and everyone must bow down to my demands. My pronouns are 'your highness' if you please

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I am a special snowflake when going off the labels people like to use these days

I am a non-binary a-gender female

Yay,. go me I am special and everyone must bow down to my demands. My pronouns are 'your highness' if you please

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Greg!

You don't have to worry about that though sis because this discussion isn't about men getting changed in women's changing rooms, it's about trans women being allowed to use the correct facilities. And if you still feel uncomfortable about it then that's a shame but it doesn't mean they should be banned from using certain rooms to suit how you feel. That's the point I was making.

Once they've had the operation, they can use whatever facility they damn well please. The topic of discussion that you brought up was based around a statement made by J.K. Rowling saying that women should be allowed to feel uncomfortable if a man with a penis claiming to be a woman stepped foot in a woman-only space.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Once they've had the operation, they can use whatever facility they damn well please. The topic of discussion that you brought up was based around a statement made by J.K. Rowling saying that women should be allowed to feel uncomfortable if a man with a penis claiming to be a woman stepped foot in a woman-only space.

It was indeed.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Once they've had the operation, they can use whatever facility they damn well please. The topic of discussion that you brought up was based around a statement made by J.K. Rowling saying that women should be allowed to feel uncomfortable if a man with a penis claiming to be a woman stepped foot in a woman-only space.

Just because they've not had the op doesn't make them a man

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I am a special snowflake when going off the labels people like to use these days

I am a non-binary a-gender female

Yay,. go me I am special and everyone must bow down to my demands. My pronouns are 'your highness' if you please

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Soz I'll try and not be uncomfortable around BO ridden old men strolling around changing rooms with their dicks out in future then

That doesn't make sense. You can feel uncomfortable about old men walking about swinging their dick around but others can't feel the same if that person happens to identify as a woman?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Just because they've not had the op doesn't make them a man

But women don’t want to share changing rooms with men with willies. It isn’t men’s place to try to force them.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That doesn't make sense. You can feel uncomfortable about old men walking about swinging their dick around but others can't feel the same if that person happens to identify as a woman?

People can (rightfully or wrongfully) feel uncomfortable about anything they want, it doesn't mean a whole group of people should be banned from using changing rooms because some people feel uncomfortable standing next to them or whatever.

[Oliver_W]

I kind of agree that whether or not someone has had the snippedy-doo-dah-dey should be a determining factor - they will be biologically male no matter what they have done, so such things aren't particularly relevant. But I also agree that diagnosed sex-dysphoria should be a determining factor, rather than self-ID.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Greg!

People can (rightfully or wrongfully) feel uncomfortable about anything they want, it doesn't mean a whole group of people should be banned from using changing rooms because some people feel uncomfortable standing next to them or whatever.

Are you going to continue to ignore the obvious potential safety issue for women - or do you simply not give a damn - as your continual refusal to address it suggests.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Are you going to continue to ignore the obvious potential safety issue for women - or do you simply not give a damn - as your continual refusal to address it suggests.

We're talking about legally recognised trans women who are transitioned or transitioning being allowed to use the correct changing rooms, not men.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Greg!

People can (rightfully or wrongfully) feel uncomfortable about anything they want, it doesn't mean a whole group of people should be banned from using changing rooms because some people feel uncomfortable standing next to them or whatever.

I dont think its a man's right to say what women should feel comfortable with because that is what most o the campaigners are men and they dont know what is going through a womans mind

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Greg!

We're talking about legally recognised trans women who are transitioned or transitioning being allowed to use the correct changing rooms, not men.

Since when? We're talking about the statement that you highlighted on the first page, which had nothing to do with legally recognised trans women.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Greg!

We're talking about legally recognised trans women who are transitioned or transitioning being allowed to use the correct changing rooms, not men.

If they still have a Willie they are a man and women should not have to share their private areas with them.

There will have to be a third option because women have a right to say NO to this - trans women do not have more rights than biological women.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If they still have a Willie they are a man and women should not have to share their private areas with them.

Incorrect

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Incorrect

This is not law yet - it is a proposal and biological women can shout as loud as trans women if they have to. Trans women have no more rights than anyone else.





I

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

This is not law yet - it is a proposal and biological women can shout as loud as trans women if they have to. Trans women have no more rights than anyone else.





I

Actually current law does state that a person with a penis can be legally a woman. For a GRC, whats needed is a small fee, a diagnosis of sex dysphoria and to 'live as' (pretty sure this means follow stereotypes...) the opposite sex for 2 years.

Whats being fought for, is removal of any medical intervention AT ALL (ie not even a diagnosis.. ). Which is clearly stupid.

But yeah, currently no actual transition is required in order to get a GRC.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Adam.

I dont think its a man's right to say what women should feel comfortable with because that is what most o the campaigners are men and they dont know what is going through a womans mind

Comment of the thread. Exactly.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Actually current law does state that a person with a penis can be legally a woman. For a GRC, whats needed is a small fee, a diagnosis of sex dysphoria and to 'live as' (pretty sure this means follow stereotypes...) the opposite sex for 2 years.

HOw how do we know if trans women in the ladies’ areas are legally women then - are they card-carrying or something so that If someone asked them for proof they had a right to be there they would have to produce it. Confused!

I’m sure the only reason they are not being expected to have the op is so the NHS doesn’t have to pay for all those expensive operations. A diagnosis at least should be a must - anything else is a joke.

[Vicky.]

Legally women is just a stupid term IMO also. But its law already..

We have men, we have women, we have transmen and we have transwomen. No need for any 'legally' ****.

And you don't know if anyone has a GRC. The guy who lives next door could technically have one if he has a diagnosis of dysphoria. Its all just a little bit daft. And now businesses and such are taking on a 'self ID' model, which makes things worse

[user104658]

You know, I'm not saying there aren't valid concerns (some blown pretty far out of proportion, but valid nonetheless) however... I have to be honest and say that I increasingly get the impression that the multiple "terrible issues!" people are having with trans, are pretty much just excuses to jump on it because they just plain "don't like the idea".

Its gotten to that stage where it feels like there are stories about it, and certain people are like "Ooh yay a juicy morsel to jump on".

Like I'll be honest and say that I'm not even 100% what my position on the whole debate is, I haven't given it much thought, because (on here, especially) the most worrying thing about the whole issue is people's fixation on it .