[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Why? Why are they scumbags?

They lost a relative, and people act in very very diffferent ways to bereavment.

Why are the locals so worked up about it, none if them died.

That poor old man could easily have died of shock/heart attack - neither the scumbag or his scumbag relatives would have given a damn about him or his family. Waste of space the lot of them.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Why? Why are they scumbags?

They lost a relative, and people act in very very diffferent ways to bereavment.

Why are the locals so worked up about it, none if them died.

The local people are angry because they probably knew the gentleman who lived there and liked him and through absoloutely no fault of his or his wifes doing they are now too scared to return home.

These ignorant twats showing up with flowers are doing it to show they know where the poor old couple live.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

they lost nothing but a feral nomark career cowardly criminal who preyed on pensioners - a man who offered nothing to society, paid no tax, stole most for what he had.

horrible man and horrible family

Horrible man admittedly, but he was still someones laddie..

I still dont get how those 2 are scum though.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That poor old man could easily have died of shock/heart attack - neither the scumbag or his scumbag relatives would have given a damn about him or his family. Waste of space the lot of them.

That poor old man managed just fine in the situation.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

The local people are angry because they probably knew the gentleman who lived there and liked him and through absoloutely no fault of his or his wifes doing they are now too scared to return home.

These ignorant twats showing up with flowers are doing it to show they know where the poor old couple live.

Well if all thats true then they are indeed the scum of the earth...


But is it?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by parmnion

That poor old man managed just fine in the situation.

The point being that the thug didn’t know that did he. HE was deliberately targeting easy targets because he was a coward- he just got more than he bargained for.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The point being that the thug didn’t know that did he. HE was deliberately targeting easy targets because he was a coward- he just got more than he bargained for.

I get all that.

But i am surprised at this old trooper being described as disabled, defenceless and poor old.

But my main issue here is people grieving being called scum.

So unless what amy jade says is correct then this is just another attack on 2 people because they are travellers.



Didn't Hughie teach us anything...aww hughie..what a guy.

[kirklancaster]

I love how these cowardly twots always turn up to rob and burgle in PAIRS or more, and are always ARMED with some type of weapon despite their victims often being lone women or lone old men or elderly couples.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I get all that.

But i am surprised at this old trooper being described as disabled, defenceless and poor old.

But my main issue here is people grieving being called scum.

So unless what amy jade says is correct then this is just another attack on 2 people because they are travellers.



Didn't Hughie teach us anything...aww hughie..what a guy.

They are making a statement though Parmy, you grieve quietly and privately. How many times do families say please respect our privacy at this time. This isn't an act of grieving, it's a very public act of provocation. And a two fingers up at the gentleman who fought for his life and ended up killing someone in self defence and his community. We know where you live they are saying.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by jaxie

They are making a statement though Parmy, you grieve quietly and privately. How many times do families say please respect our privacy at this time. This isn't an act of grieving, it's a very public act of provocation. And a two fingers up at the gentleman who fought for his life and ended up killing someone in self defence and his community. We know where you live they are saying.

Travellers grieve fairly publicly as far as im aware and the women are fairly spiritual. Maybe they might see that as his spirits resting place...i see a lot of flowers on trees and lamposts round here..whatever it is..no-one and i mean no-one can tell another person how they should grieve.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Travellers grieve fairly publicly as far as im aware and the women are fairly spiritual. Maybe they might see that as his spirits resting place...i see a lot of flowers on trees and lamposts round here..whatever it is..no-one and i mean no-one can tell another person how they should grieve.

...I do understand Parmy..and that the travelling community and families may have traditional ways of expressing grief publicly also etc...but I think this is in context of other things also, the flowers being put on the fence...?...I’m not sure of the accuracy of all reporting but ‘death threats’ are also being made and the couple have had to be moved to a safe house...

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I do understand Parmy..and that the travelling community and families may have traditional ways of expressing grief publicly also etc...but I think this is in context of other things also, the flowers being put on the fence...?...I’m not sure of the accuracy of all reporting but ‘death threats’ are also being made and the couple have had to be moved to a safe house...

Yes but whos to say the grieving family have anything to do with the death threats?

From my own experiences i am very aware of internet and life trolls latching onto any news story thats been so public so they can then be the sick and twisted individuals they are by contacting people involved to harrass and upset them...

I may be wrong, and it may well be the family if the stories are true....but to just jump in and hang them before a trial saddens me as i just see it as peoples prejudice and intolerance to travellers.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes but whos to say the grieving family have anything to do with the death threats?

From my own experiences i am very aware of internet and life trolls latching onto any news story thats been so public so they can then be the sick and twisted individuals they are by contacting people involved to harrass and upset them...

I may be wrong, and it may well be the family if the stories are true....but to just jump in and hang them before a trial saddens me as i just see it as peoples prejudice and intolerance to travellers.

That is a good point Parmy

[bots]

The travelers are making a point, and you can make your own mind up over it's legitimacy. I take the view that they are sticking 2 fingers up at the establishment because that's what they always do.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes but whos to say the grieving family have anything to do with the death threats?

From my own experiences i am very aware of internet and life trolls latching onto any news story thats been so public so they can then be the sick and twisted individuals they are by contacting people involved to harrass and upset them...

I may be wrong, and it may well be the family if the stories are true....but to just jump in and hang them before a trial saddens me as i just see it as peoples prejudice and intolerance to travellers.

..yeah I’m completely with you, Parmy...there may have been death threats to the couple ...but not from the family and loved ones necessarily or any of the travelling community...and I don’t think media reporting helps with these things either...’the twisted individuals’ as you call them...with the family placing flowers, the ladies..?...all I can see on their faces is sadness and grief because of their loss...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Travellers grieve fairly publicly as far as im aware and the women are fairly spiritual. Maybe they might see that as his spirits resting place...i see a lot of flowers on trees and lamposts round here..whatever it is..no-one and i mean no-one can tell another person how they should grieve.

They weren't being fairly spiritual when they robbed my garage. Or when they left a site about a mile from me covered in disgusting crap, bags of dirty nappies, builders rubbish... and then there are those who are nicking people's pet dogs out of their front gardens to use as bait dogs. A BIG problem where I live. Sometimes they just can't be allowed to have their own way.

If this old man was your relative, Parm, you'd be singing a quite different song.

[Amy Jade]

Having dealt with quite a few traveller families in my job (I work in a supermarket on the cigarette kiosk) I can say most I come in contact with do not seem religious, especially when they call me horrible names for asking them for ID or when they threaten to hit me or wait for me after work when I take stickers for 50p they have put on clothing that costs Ł20 and they try to intimidate me me into allowing the sale even though they have been seeing on camera doing it.

Wasn't one of the big things in the bible that you do not lie, steal or hurt anyone? Well their 'hero' relative was a theif. If they are religious then they should know that he reserved his place in hell years ago.

Glad to see their flowers were ripped down again.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Livia

If this old man was your relative, Parm, you'd be singing a quite different song.

Exactly what I think.

The home owner simply defended himself, his wife and his property. He only stabbed the intruder once so he clearly never meant to kill him. The family should keep away from the victims house, out of respect but they seemingly have no respect and therefore a huge majority are struggling to bare any sympathy for them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

They weren't being fairly spiritual when they robbed my garage. Or when they left a site about a mile from me covered in disgusting crap, bags of dirty nappies, builders rubbish... and then there are those who are nicking people's pet dogs out of their front gardens to use as bait dogs. A BIG problem where I live. Sometimes they just can't be allowed to have their own way.

If this old man was your relative, Parm, you'd be singing a quite different song.

around where I work the problem is how they treat their horses, they dump them on other peoples/companies land without adequate food or security, they end up walking around the roads alot of times. A friend of mine and her husband have started a group that goes round feeding them and arranging vet care for them. Sulky racing is a big problem too, just down the road from where I work last week one of the horses collapsed on the road while they were in a sulky, they just unclipped him from it and left him there on the road to die. It's heart breaking

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

around where I work the problem is how they treat their horses, they dump them on other peoples/companies land without adequate food or security, they end up walking around the roads alot of times. A friend of mine and her husband have started a group that goes round feeding them and arranging vet care for them. Sulky racing is a big problem too, just down the road from where I work last week one of the horses collapsed on the road while they were in a sulky, they just unclipped him from it and left him there on the road to die. It's heart breaking

Disgusting. I don't know if it's the same in Ireland, but the police are scared of confronting them. Last year in Cromer - a costal town - the place was all but shut down when the travellers arrived... and it was like an invasion. And where were the police? Nowhere. Afterwards they apologised and said that lessons had been learned, etc... but the fact is that the locals had to fend for themselves.

And as AJ was saying about the supermarket... I've seen them descend on a supermarket en masse and the staff have had to follow them round the shop. There's also been a spate of them nicking stuff from charity shops. Charity shops!

A Labrador was stolen from my local village. Eight years old, beloved family pet... taken by travellers and used as a bait dog in a dog fight. The owners were distraught as you can imagine. Another part of the traveller culture we're not supposed to interfere with?

Conversely, not far from me, not even a mile, is a Romany camp. It's immaculate and they're really nice people, their kids go to the local school, they use the local pubs and there has never been a problem with them.

Travellers cannot continue to be a law unto themselves, and hanging flowers outside this couple's house was a provocative act.

[user104658]

I never have trouble with the traveller types in my place, usually friendly and polite (although tbqfh, some of them I can't understand a word they're saying). But there aren't a HUGE number of them (a couple of families) and also... They know they'll get kicked out in a second and they need their Roulette fix, so perhaps on their best behaviour.

I can see both sides of this really. The guy who was killed was indeed pretty much a "scum bag" if such terms must be used, or at the very least engaging in some very scummy activity and no one can really be all that SURPRISED or angry that he ended up getting himself killed. That's pretty much how it goes if you choose to be a career criminal. You end up in prison or dead. However, he wasn't exactly a serial killer or "monster", just a crappy and immoral person, so I fully understand that his family will be devastated and grieve for him. He may well have been a loving father/son/friend... People are complicated. Suggesting that they shouldn't grieve, or shouldn't want to, is insane.

However... There's no need at all for this display of grief to be put on in the street where he was terrorising an elderly couple and got himself stabbed. You could argue that they didn't realise it was inappropriate... If they had just done it once... But at this point, the display has been taken down multiple times, but they keep putting it back up. They clearly know its causing upset and distress. Maybe it didn't start out as threatening or conflict driven, maybe they really didn't understand that it would cause conflict and are now feeling defiant and persecuted... But at this point it definitely is conflict driven and intended to prove something. If I lived there, I would definitely be concerned about the possibility for it escalating.

[Livia]

No one's suggesting people "shouldn't grieve". They need to find some other way of doing it instead of harassing the victims of a crime.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Livia

They weren't being fairly spiritual when they robbed my garage. Or when they left a site about a mile from me covered in disgusting crap, bags of dirty nappies, builders rubbish... and then there are those who are nicking people's pet dogs out of their front gardens to use as bait dogs. A BIG problem where I live. Sometimes they just can't be allowed to have their own way.

If this old man was your relative, Parm, you'd be singing a quite different song.

Do you think hitler had the right idea which was to murder them all like he did with the Jews.

Good and bad in every culture.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Do you think hitler had the right idea which was to murder them all like he did with the Jews.

Good and bad in every culture.

Do you think it's right to compare the Travellers to the Jews?

and I think you'll find it was the Roma people who were gassed... the travellers were probably still in neutral Ireland.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Disgusting. I don't know if it's the same in Ireland, but the police are scared of confronting them. Last year in Cromer - a costal town - the place was all but shut down when the travellers arrived... and it was like an invasion. And where were the police? Nowhere. Afterwards they apologised and said that lessons had been learned, etc... but the fact is that the locals had to fend for themselves.

And as AJ was saying about the supermarket... I've seen them descend on a supermarket en masse and the staff have had to follow them round the shop. There's also been a spate of them nicking stuff from charity shops. Charity shops!

A Labrador was stolen from my local village. Eight years old, beloved family pet... taken by travellers and used as a bait dog in a dog fight. The owners were distraught as you can imagine. Another part of the traveller culture we're not supposed to interfere with?

Conversely, not far from me, not even a mile, is a Romany camp. It's immaculate and they're really nice people, their kids go to the local school, they use the local pubs and there has never been a problem with them.

Travellers cannot continue to be a law unto themselves, and hanging flowers outside this couple's house was a provocative act.

Yeah same here alright. And the whole reason there is such a massive "us and them" divide and why people might come across as generalising is because they don't seem to have to follow the same rules as everyone else in the country. If I had a horse and treated him the way they do with theirs, I'd be arrested and probably never allowed keep one again, they get to keep theirs on other peoples land and not feed them etc