[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It seems it doesn’t matter how badly people behave there will always be someone to defend them - that is what I find sad.

I think some people are just more inclined to see things in shades of grey... Nothing is ever simple. And also it's not about "defending" anyone, this is a misunderstanding I keep encountering, the idea that being interested in the complexities of human psychology is "making excuses!" when it really isn't.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think some people are just more inclined to see things in shades of grey... Nothing is ever simple. And also it's not about "defending" anyone, this is a misunderstanding I keep encountering, the idea that being interested in the complexities of human psychology is "making excuses!" when it really isn't.

When they rob charity shops, leave rubbish and **** all over public spaces, burgle people, and smash pubs up, there's no point looking for shades of grey or complexities of human psychology.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

When they rob charity shops, leave rubbish and **** all over public spaces, burgle people, and smash pubs up, there's no point looking for shades of grey or complexities of human psychology.

Well there is if you're interested in such things. Again, I'm not talking about making excuses for anyone so the outrage is misplaced.

I'm interested in the childhood psychology of serial killers but it doesn't mean I want them released .

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

When they rob charity shops, leave rubbish and **** all over public spaces, burgle people, and smash pubs up, there's no point looking for shades of grey or complexities of human psychology.

They, they, they......


Now that sounds like you have just lumped all travellers in the scumbag box without even bothering to find out about individuals...which is my point exactly.


These 2 women are being judged on a dead scumbags actions and i find that a bit off tbh.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by parmnion

They, they, they......


Now that sounds like you have just lumped all travellers in the scumbag box without even bothering to find out about individuals...which is my point exactly.


These 2 women are being judged on a dead scumbags actions and i find that a bit off tbh.

Plenty of travelers don't do those things, they're not a problem and they're a separate "they".

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think some people are just more inclined to see things in shades of grey... Nothing is ever simple. And also it's not about "defending" anyone, this is a misunderstanding I keep encountering, the idea that being interested in the complexities of human psychology is "making excuses!" when it really isn't.

But TS, you are making excuses. You say that you can see shades of grey, well, you#'re not the only one. We're all pretty intelligent on here. Maybe you've been fortunate not to have encountered the downside of the traveller community, but I have and so have others. And every time a scumbag does something appalling there are people on the forum ready to tell everyone they're wrong and we should see the bigger picture.

If there was a positive story about travellers anywhere, I'd be glad to compare note.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

But TS, you are making excuses. You say that you can see shades of grey, well, you#'re not the only one. We're all pretty intelligent on here. Maybe you've been fortunate not to have encountered the downside of the traveller community, but I have and so have others. And every time a scumbag does something appalling there are people on the forum ready to tell everyone they're wrong and we should see the bigger picture.

If there was a positive story about travellers anywhere, I'd be glad to compare note.

It's not excuses though, there are no excuses for burgling houses and terrorising people, and no one is trying to do that. No one is trying g to say that there are valid reasons for those actions. I'm not even saying the resident shouldn't have stabbed him; he was right to take whatever action necessary when him and his family were threatened in their home. The burglar (knowingly, unless he was very stupid) risked his life with his criminal activity and paid the price.

The "shades of grey"... And where the aftermath becomes complicated... Lie in the fact that just because he was clearly not a good or moral person, doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't love or wasn't loved by his family and friends. People are extremely complex and, barring complete sociopaths (which are very rare), the "scummiest" people have more than one aspect to who they are. People who do awful things don't go home and sit around cackling and coming up with evil schemes like supervillains all day... That is the hard to swallow reality.

The effort to understand, not excuse, is actually hugely rewarding... It's fine if you have no interest in doing so but I really can't comprehend why you would want to stop anyone else from doing it.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not excuses though, there are no excuses for burgling houses and terrorising people, and no one is trying to do that. No one is trying g to say that there are valid reasons for those actions. I'm not even saying the resident shouldn't have stabbed him; he was right to take whatever action necessary when him and his family were threatened in their home. The burglar (knowingly, unless he was very stupid) risked his life with his criminal activity and paid the price.

The "shades of grey"... And where the aftermath becomes complicated... Lie in the fact that just because he was clearly not a good or moral person, doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't love or wasn't loved by his family and friends. People are extremely complex and, barring complete sociopaths (which are very rare), the "scummiest" people have more than one aspect to who they are. People who do awful things don't go home and sit around cackling and coming up with evil schemes like supervillains all day... That is the hard to swallow reality.

The effort to understand, not excuse, is actually hugely rewarding... It's fine if you have no interest in doing so but I really can't comprehend why you would want to stop anyone else from doing it.

If the process of "understanding" involves explaining their behaviour for reasons not within their own control then it is making excuses for them

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

If the process of "understanding" involves explaining their behaviour for reasons not within their own control then it is making excuses for them

Who is doing that, though? You're assuming that understanding behaviour is the same thing as removing personal responsibility for that behaviour... It's not.