[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

To be fair, Cherie, not a lot of other groups get away with what the travellers get away with. They are a law unto themselves.

I do agree they do seem to get away with far more than is the norm, I guess that is down to the fact that they can uproot and at time and are generally of no fixed abode, so quite difficult to convict, I don't know

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Which other groups have gotten themselves a reputation for doing the things which make people complain about the travelers?

You have changed your tune since yesterday. Yes there is a lot to complain about, like there is a lot of to complain about in any group of people, but tarring everyone of them with same brush would not be tolerated in any other group.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I don't really agree that travellers as a group are relevant to this thread or in the stereotypes for them but then I don't live in a community that has had problems from them as a group and this can weight peoples opinion considerably. I don't really blame anyone for that either.

However I do think this particular family are being deliberately provocative. This is more about making a vengeful statement than genuine grieving in my opinion.

I'm inclined to believe this as well tbf

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Alot of comments on this thread would not be tolerated for other groups, there are good and bad everywhere.

Well my point was to do with a particular activity that is practised by travellers and besides being dangerous is terrible animal cruelty. It is off-topic though so I won't say anymore on it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

But TS, you are making excuses. You say that you can see shades of grey, well, you#'re not the only one. We're all pretty intelligent on here. Maybe you've been fortunate not to have encountered the downside of the traveller community, but I have and so have others. And every time a scumbag does something appalling there are people on the forum ready to tell everyone they're wrong and we should see the bigger picture.

If there was a positive story about travellers anywhere, I'd be glad to compare note.

It's not excuses though, there are no excuses for burgling houses and terrorising people, and no one is trying to do that. No one is trying g to say that there are valid reasons for those actions. I'm not even saying the resident shouldn't have stabbed him; he was right to take whatever action necessary when him and his family were threatened in their home. The burglar (knowingly, unless he was very stupid) risked his life with his criminal activity and paid the price.

The "shades of grey"... And where the aftermath becomes complicated... Lie in the fact that just because he was clearly not a good or moral person, doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't love or wasn't loved by his family and friends. People are extremely complex and, barring complete sociopaths (which are very rare), the "scummiest" people have more than one aspect to who they are. People who do awful things don't go home and sit around cackling and coming up with evil schemes like supervillains all day... That is the hard to swallow reality.

The effort to understand, not excuse, is actually hugely rewarding... It's fine if you have no interest in doing so but I really can't comprehend why you would want to stop anyone else from doing it.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not excuses though, there are no excuses for burgling houses and terrorising people, and no one is trying to do that. No one is trying g to say that there are valid reasons for those actions. I'm not even saying the resident shouldn't have stabbed him; he was right to take whatever action necessary when him and his family were threatened in their home. The burglar (knowingly, unless he was very stupid) risked his life with his criminal activity and paid the price.

The "shades of grey"... And where the aftermath becomes complicated... Lie in the fact that just because he was clearly not a good or moral person, doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't love or wasn't loved by his family and friends. People are extremely complex and, barring complete sociopaths (which are very rare), the "scummiest" people have more than one aspect to who they are. People who do awful things don't go home and sit around cackling and coming up with evil schemes like supervillains all day... That is the hard to swallow reality.

The effort to understand, not excuse, is actually hugely rewarding... It's fine if you have no interest in doing so but I really can't comprehend why you would want to stop anyone else from doing it.

If the process of "understanding" involves explaining their behaviour for reasons not within their own control then it is making excuses for them

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

If the process of "understanding" involves explaining their behaviour for reasons not within their own control then it is making excuses for them

Who is doing that, though? You're assuming that understanding behaviour is the same thing as removing personal responsibility for that behaviour... It's not.

[Tom4784]

Quite a ridiculous case from what I've read so I'm glad he faced no charges for it, it seems a million miles away from that case with the farmer killing the intruders as they ran away.

[arista]

The 78 year old and his ill wife have moved out
under Police advice.
The Evil Criminal who is Dead
has his family and criminal mates keep putting up flowers.

https://news.sky.com/story/memorial-...-time-11326523
So far pulled down the Flowers 4 times

[arista]

[The Met Police has released this image of Hither Green suspect Billy Jeeves]

The Scumbag Criminal Driver has that is still free

[thesheriff443]

People put flowers up at side of the road where people have been killed some from speeding or drunk driving.

Leave them up, be old news next month.

[arista]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

People put flowers up at side of the road where people have been killed some from speeding or drunk driving.

Leave them up, be old news next month.

No a local will not stand for it.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by arista

No a local will not stand for it.

Then make him sit

[user104658]

What I will address;

Apparently there's some confusion with thinking that I'm using the word "understanding" synonymously with "compassion". Which just is not the case. I'm not generally all that compassionate, and that's in no way what I was even talking about

Bluntly as I can put it; I don't care that this guy is dead. Literally... at all. It gets a big "meh" - he invaded someone's home and he got stabbed. It seems pretty inevitable. I also don't really care that his family are upset about it. I don't know them... it's not exactly on my radar. When I say I like trying to "understand" these things it's not some bleeding heart acceptance thing... it's because I find attempting to understand human and social psychology interesting and rewarding, in the sense that it's fascinating.

I'm sure that'll just piss you off more because, for whatever reason, you think you need to "knock me down a peg" and tell me that "I'm not all that clever" like it's some sort of weird personal mission. Luckily, along with this fellow's death, I don't particularly care about your assessments of how smart I am or am not either .

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

People put flowers up at side of the road where people have been killed some from speeding or drunk driving.

Leave them up, be old news next month.

That is different though, the driver of a car who hits someone doesn't live on the road side. These people are going to the victims home and sticking flowers up.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

That is different though, the driver of a car who hits someone doesn't live on the road side. These people are going to the victims home and sticking flowers up.

But it's flowers they are leaving not bombs.

[thesheriff443]

Do we know if he was stabbed with his own screw driver or was it a knife from the kitchen.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Do we know if he was stabbed with his own screw driver or was it a knife from the kitchen.

He was stabbed with the screwdriver the criminal brought with him,the old guy was protecting his disabled wife,that criminal would have used it against him,wonder what people sticking up for this wanker would say then.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Having dealt with quite a few traveller families in my job (I work in a supermarket on the cigarette kiosk) I can say most I come in contact with do not seem religious, especially when they call me horrible names for asking them for ID or when they threaten to hit me or wait for me after work when I take stickers for 50p they have put on clothing that costs Ł20 and they try to intimidate me me into allowing the sale even though they have been seeing on camera doing it.

Wasn't one of the big things in the bible that you do not lie, steal or hurt anyone? Well their 'hero' relative was a theif. If they are religious then they should know that he reserved his place in hell years ago.

Glad to see their flowers were ripped down again.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Here's a video of a race on a really busy road, very close to where I work

Youtube video

I once watched a couple of different documentaries on this Niamh and for supposed 'horse-lovers' the cruelty and lack of care about the horses were glaring.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

People put flowers up at side of the road where people have been killed some from speeding or drunk driving.

Leave them up, be old news next month.

Flowers left for innocent victims at the scene of an accident is a light-year away from flowers left for a perpetrator at his VICTIMS home.

And in the former, there can be NO doubt that the 'motive' behind leaving the flowers is Love, Sympathy and Remembrance, while, in the case of the latter, the motive behind leaving flowers is highly DUBIOUS.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

He was stabbed with the screwdriver the criminal brought with him,the old guy was protecting his disabled wife,that criminal would have used it against him,wonder what people sticking up for this wanker would say then.

I would say, why didnt he?

But im not one of those people.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I would say, why didnt he?

But im not one of those people.

If you mean; Why didn't the burglar USE the screwdriver on the 'old man' - HE DID. He held it to his throat but the 'old man' obviously surprised bully boy and won the grapple which ensued.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I once watched a couple of different documentaries on this Niamh and for supposed 'horse-lovers' the cruelty and lack of care about the horses were glaring.

Dogs too sadly

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Dogs too sadly

Hi A.J.

Yes, I forgot about the way dogs are treated. THAT was addressed in one of the documentaries too.