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View Poll Results: .
Yes, he has served his time & should be allowed to return to society as normal 24 47.06%
Yes, he has served his time & should be allowed to return to society as normal
24 47.06%
Can't decide 1 1.96%
Can't decide
1 1.96%
No, it would be a bad example & he should not be allowed to play football professionally again 26 50.98%
No, it would be a bad example & he should not be allowed to play football professionally again
26 50.98%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-01-2015, 04:14 PM #251
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Ch5HD news just reported Live
the club has now signed him.
But it may not go Live until tomorrow
and many sponsers are leaving - which is why there is a delay

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Old 07-01-2015, 04:44 PM #252
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A bold move.For the club and for him.He will have to endure abuse from away fans every time he enters the pitch and every time he touches the ball.He will here things like 'touch of a rapist' and constant booing and hissing every time he makes a pass or accepts the ball.Even if he did commit this offence it's time to let him get on with it imo.He's served his time now.The witch hunt should end.He will be walking into the lions den every match now wether he is cleared of these allegations or not.This will have scarred him for life.
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:40 PM #253
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Originally Posted by Niall View Post
I know, but you have to think of the implications of what it all means. If football clubs are willing to sign a ex-con who's committed a sexual offence as depraved as rape with nary a care in sight then it just says that their attitude is something along the lines of this, "Aw well he's spent his time in the corner I mean he did only rape that woman once, so who cares about what it says to our female fanbase and women in general if we hire him!" Like, it just seems iffy.

And I know everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law, but seeing as this is a high profile case with implications being played out across a highly publicised field (excuse the pun), then it kind of sets the tone for everything else. Letting him carry on in such a cushy job with no-one in else in that career really reacting to him forcing such a traumatic act on another human being is just.. no. It's not right. Moreover I'm not sure how he can have the gall to want to show his face in public after doing something of that calibre.





Rape is simple: if there is an absence of consent, then it's rape. If someone is inebriated they cannot consent because they aren't in a clear and lucid state of mind. Therefore, it is rape. That's taking advantage of someone sexually. You cannot argue against that. It is not 'drunken stupidity', it's someone preying on someone else who's in a vulnerable state. Consent is a constant and enthusiastic 'Yes!' and nothing else.

The entirety of what you've said highlights the problem here, and it's that people often think that the victim 'had it coming' because they shouldn't have gone somewhere with the assailant, and quite frankly it's the most stupid argument in the book. Let's apply that logic somewhere else: would you say that if someone walking home from the train station at 10pm is at fault if they're mugged? It's ridiculous. She shouldn't have to go somewhere with the expectation that she might have to give herself up sexually. And even if she did lead them to think that that's what might happen, any normal human being knows the line in terms of consent. Like I'm pretty sure if someone was drunk etc, or even gave the slightest hint of uncomfortableness when it comes to all this stuff most sane people would know to back the fuck off. Whereas if you don't and you force yourself upon, or take advantage of someone, then that's a rather terrifying thing for someone to do, no?

To reiterate: victim blaming is absolutely the problem at hand. The misogynistic view that "She shouldn't have done this...", or "She shouldn't have done that...", or "Her skirt was too short..", is just an argument both terrifyingly disgusting as it is paper thin.
Your views are perfectly valid, just not in this instance, in my opinion. They'd be spot on if we were discussing a totally different rape case, but not this one. Rape is not simple. Rape is complicated, rape is upsetting, rape is life ruining. Rape is also not a word with a simple definition. Ched Evans is a rapist because a jury found him guilty of having non-consensual sex with an inebriated girl while he himself was inebriated and while his colleague was in the room, who had just had consensual sex with said girl. Richard Ramirez is a convicted rapist because he broke into married couples' homes, murdered the husbands and brutally raped the wives while the husbands were dying. I don't have much respect for anyone who can look me in the eye and say that these two men are equally as bad or equally as guilty as one another. They're just not. Ched Evans hasn't said sorry because he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. Saying sorry would be an admission of guilt - evidently he doesn't think he's guilty of anything and having read more about the "evidence" that sparked his trial, I don't think he's guilty of anything either.

I was sexually assaulted when I was 20 years old. I got really drunk, thrown out of a nightclub and was taken into a taxi by someone I vaguely knew, taken back to a flat and molested on a bathroom floor. That wouldn't have happened if I hadn't gotten so drunk. It was my fault for getting myself into a state where I could have been taken advantage of so easily. I don't remember if I consented or not - and how many people even ask the question "do you consent to me having sexual relations with you?" before they begin?! It's nonsense.

I can make some sense of how this came about - they left her in the hotel room where she presumably fell asleep, woke up without any of her possessions or any recollection of how she got there, called the police to see if her things had been handed in, spoke to officers who looked into it, spoke to the night porter, hauled in Evans and McDonald who freely admitted they had sex with her because they had no reason to think they'd done anything wrong and the police led the girl into believing she was a rape victim and to pursue legal proceedings against the two; the jury somehow finds Evans guilty and not McDonald on the really shaky evidence at their disposal, perhaps believing that the shaky evidence meant that the players were guilty because it does look bad on paper, and here we are now.

As for the "cushy job" part - he's playing football at a League One level, he's hardly earning Premier League wages. Maybe the police responsible for turning this into a rape trial are Sheffield Wednesday supporters
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:47 PM #254
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..well whether he's actually guilty or not..(obviously he's been found guilty..)..but if he did know he hadn't got consent then he's served his sentence and should now be entitled to live his life without being hounded by the media and be employed in what he does and if he did feel he had consent, then it's the right thing that he's playing football again anyway because he's spent two years wrongly imprisoned..so I think either way, it's the right decision by Oldham...
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:48 PM #255
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Originally Posted by Z View Post
Your views are perfectly valid, just not in this instance, in my opinion. They'd be spot on if we were discussing a totally different rape case, but not this one. Rape is not simple. Rape is complicated, rape is upsetting, rape is life ruining. Rape is also not a word with a simple definition. Ched Evans is a rapist because a jury found him guilty of having non-consensual sex with an inebriated girl while he himself was inebriated and while his colleague was in the room, who had just had consensual sex with said girl. Richard Ramirez is a convicted rapist because he broke into married couples' homes, murdered the husbands and brutally raped the wives while the husbands were dying. I don't have much respect for anyone who can look me in the eye and say that these two men are equally as bad or equally as guilty as one another. They're just not. Ched Evans hasn't said sorry because he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. Saying sorry would be an admission of guilt - evidently he doesn't think he's guilty of anything and having read more about the "evidence" that sparked his trial, I don't think he's guilty of anything either.

I was sexually assaulted when I was 20 years old. I got really drunk, thrown out of a nightclub and was taken into a taxi by someone I vaguely knew, taken back to a flat and molested on a bathroom floor. That wouldn't have happened if I hadn't gotten so drunk. It was my fault for getting myself into a state where I could have been taken advantage of so easily. I don't remember if I consented or not - and how many people even ask the question "do you consent to me having sexual relations with you?" before they begin?! It's nonsense.

I can make some sense of how this came about - they left her in the hotel room where she presumably fell asleep, woke up without any of her possessions or any recollection of how she got there, called the police to see if her things had been handed in, spoke to officers who looked into it, spoke to the night porter, hauled in Evans and McDonald who freely admitted they had sex with her because they had no reason to think they'd done anything wrong and the police led the girl into believing she was a rape victim and to pursue legal proceedings against the two; the jury somehow finds Evans guilty and not McDonald on the really shaky evidence at their disposal, perhaps believing that the shaky evidence meant that the players were guilty because it does look bad on paper, and here we are now.

As for the "cushy job" part - he's playing football at a League One level, he's hardly earning Premier League wages. Maybe the police responsible for turning this into a rape trial are Sheffield Wednesday supporters
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:52 PM #256
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Originally Posted by Z View Post
Your views are perfectly valid, just not in this instance, in my opinion. They'd be spot on if we were discussing a totally different rape case, but not this one. Rape is not simple. Rape is complicated, rape is upsetting, rape is life ruining. Rape is also not a word with a simple definition. Ched Evans is a rapist because a jury found him guilty of having non-consensual sex with an inebriated girl while he himself was inebriated and while his colleague was in the room, who had just had consensual sex with said girl. Richard Ramirez is a convicted rapist because he broke into married couples' homes, murdered the husbands and brutally raped the wives while the husbands were dying. I don't have much respect for anyone who can look me in the eye and say that these two men are equally as bad or equally as guilty as one another. They're just not. Ched Evans hasn't said sorry because he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. Saying sorry would be an admission of guilt - evidently he doesn't think he's guilty of anything and having read more about the "evidence" that sparked his trial, I don't think he's guilty of anything either.

I was sexually assaulted when I was 20 years old. I got really drunk, thrown out of a nightclub and was taken into a taxi by someone I vaguely knew, taken back to a flat and molested on a bathroom floor. That wouldn't have happened if I hadn't gotten so drunk. It was my fault for getting myself into a state where I could have been taken advantage of so easily. I don't remember if I consented or not - and how many people even ask the question "do you consent to me having sexual relations with you?" before they begin?! It's nonsense.

I can make some sense of how this came about - they left her in the hotel room where she presumably fell asleep, woke up without any of her possessions or any recollection of how she got there, called the police to see if her things had been handed in, spoke to officers who looked into it, spoke to the night porter, hauled in Evans and McDonald who freely admitted they had sex with her because they had no reason to think they'd done anything wrong and the police led the girl into believing she was a rape victim and to pursue legal proceedings against the two; the jury somehow finds Evans guilty and not McDonald on the really shaky evidence at their disposal, perhaps believing that the shaky evidence meant that the players were guilty because it does look bad on paper, and here we are now.

As for the "cushy job" part - he's playing football at a League One level, he's hardly earning Premier League wages. Maybe the police responsible for turning this into a rape trial are Sheffield Wednesday supporters
well said Z and sorry for your horrible experience
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:16 PM #257
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What a brilliant and eloquently written post Z. I am sorry to hear what happened to you, but must say I agree with what you have to say on this case:

I have analysed as much of the available documentation on this case as I can find and I agree totally with you, Nedusa and others that the verdict ‘stinks to high heaven’. There are so many anomalies and unaired flaws in the crown’s evidence that I feel sorry for Evans.

I will not go into all of the discrepancies I believe I have discovered because it will take another long post which I know people are fed up of from me, but I will air just a couple of points.

Drugs and alcohol are mind-altering substances. Excessive intake of either alters the physiological state of the brain to such a degree from its normal state that ‘temporary insanity’ can occur, yet I do not know of one instance where any judge has conceded this fact in any criminal case or allowed it as a mitigating factor when sentencing a male who committed a crime whilst ‘drugged up’ or ‘pissed out of his brains.

Yet the judiciary have no problem at all in determining that when a female in a rape trial is drugged or drunk from self administered drugs and drink, it affects her mental capacity to such a degree that it renders her; “in no position to form a capacity to consent to sexual intercourse”.

In this particular case, the same ‘complainant’ who was deemed to be so drunk that she was incapable of consenting to sex - even when the only testimony was that she had indeed consented – could eat pizza from a box at sometime after 3 am, and sometime after 4.15 am she had the spatial awareness to know that she was in an hotel room, and the lucidity of mind to ask McDonald "You're not going to leave me, are you?"

Some may recall very famous footage of David Hasselhof being so drunk that he couldn’t talk, stand up to eat pizza, or even find his mouth with the pizza. I am sure this constitutes being very drunk – far more drunk than the complainant was on the night in question (who could walk, talk and stand up and eat pizza) - but I am certain that even in his advanced state of drunkenness, Hasselhoff would certainly had known had someone tried to bugger him or perform oral sex on him.

So how drunk does someone really have to be, in order not to be aware that someone is performing non-consensual oral sex on them, or full intercourse with all the penetration, bumping and grinding, and grunting and groaning involved, before screaming out or fighting the ‘rapist’ off?

I would say virtually comatose.

Yet the complainant here was clearly not comatose according to the evidence, and she bore no traces of physical injury or other marks consistent with being forcibly raped or fighting off her attacker. Nor did she scream, cry out, or fight off any attacker, because in his evidence, Burrough - the Night Porter - was directly outside the door while Evans was having sex with her , but testified only to hearing the sounds of sexual intercourse and nothing else to concern him.

Much has been made of the fact that the sexual activity was ‘filmed’ by two friends of Evans and I believe this was viewed as particularly degenerate by both judge and jury, as indeed by most on here, but I am more interested in whether the film was produced in court as evidence by either side because surely it would at the very least give some idea of the circumstances under which the sex was occurring.

I am even more interested in the fact that the filming occurred only until “the room curtains were closed”, and I’d like to know who closed them and why, because it destroys any contention that the two filmed at Evans’ behest or with his awareness, because he would hardly close the curtains or allow them to be closed if he was complicit in the filming.

If only there was the space for more.

Anyway Z, I applaud you.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:34 PM #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedusa View Post
I have no reason to make you feel "guilty " as you say, not my intent. I have tried to show at some length the deep legal flaws in this case, the glaring errors the lack of any type of real evidence to suggest a rape had taken place, the absence of even a complaint of rape or anything untoward.

No shouts of stop of screams of rape, yet sounds from the women in question were heard and possibly observerd by 3rd parties.

For a jury to decide beyond ALL reasonable doubt that one of these men is a rapist but the other innocent is quite ridiculous.

I feel the points you make in your threads comment only on the circumstances which could be interpreted as suspicious if other more damming evidence existed. Taken together I agree this may help the prosecutions case, but as there was no evidence of an actual crime, the jury must decide on primary evidence of which there was none.

So this conviction for rape handed down to this footballer who probably never thought in a million years he would end up as a rapist after a drunken night out, was given to him by a jury who decided he probably was a rapist because ....?????

Exactly ...???? Because of what ??

Simply put there is not enough evidence to convict one of these footballers beyond a reasonable doubt whilst con firming the other one was innocent.

I am not a barrister but even I can see the huge flaws in this case.

Anyway, glad he has a contract now and may be able to earn enough to help fund the fight to clear his name.





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Why are you so hellbent on attempting to ram your point home to me? I have my view and you and your cockeyed perception of what you consider to be the correct version of events is inconsequential to me.
Just stop, I'm happy with the verdict and happen to think it was entirely correct thank you.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:19 PM #259
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Why are you so hellbent on attempting to ram your point home to me? I have my view and you and your cockeyed perception of what you consider to be the correct version of events is inconsequential to me.
Just stop, I'm happy with the verdict and happen to think it was entirely correct thank you.
she has every right to state the facts and her opinion. you clearly dont know the facts and therefore fail totally to debate with a superior intelligence. the fact youre mind is made up without knowing the facts is pure ignorance and bigotry
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:22 PM #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
Why are you so hellbent on attempting to ram your point home to me? I have my view and you and your cockeyed perception of what you consider to be the correct version of events is inconsequential to me.
Just stop, I'm happy with the verdict and happen to think it was entirely correct thank you.
Because you keep replying to my posts with rather vague and circumstantial points that do not answer the main points of law needed to prove a rape case.

I understand you think he is a rapist and that he went out that night to rape a young women. He did not he went out that night to have a few laughs and maybe get off with a woman . Given his fame, money and good looks he probably has no trouble achieving this. However this time the situation resulted in him being convicted of raping a young women.

Did he force himself on her , maybe

Did she consent ? Maybe not but given all the points raised in my previous texts I cannot see how any jury can say beyond a reasonable that he did indeed rape her??

Fact is you cannot... But this jury thought they could and that I and many people on this forum find hard to understand.

Let's leave this thread alone now.... Neither of us have any more to add.




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Old 07-01-2015, 10:31 PM #261
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I agree with you 100% nedusa...the case has more holes than the hull of the titanic.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:32 PM #262
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As for the "cushy job" part - he's playing football at a League One level, he's hardly earning Premier League wages. Maybe the police responsible for turning this into a rape trial are Sheffield Wednesday supporters
Just a small point but he's earning Ł2k a week reportedly... a Ł104k salary is pretty bloody cushy
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:35 PM #263
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If he is deemed good enough to play then he should be offered a contract and Oldham obviously feels that he is. His sentence is over with. As ****ed up as th legal system may be, it is all about "Rehabilitation" no? Besides he wouldn't be the first convict out of jaill to continue his decent life once outside.
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Old 08-01-2015, 12:19 AM #264
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Originally Posted by Nedusa View Post
Because you keep replying to my posts with rather vague and circumstantial points that do not answer the main points of law needed to prove a rape case.

I understand you think he is a rapist and that he went out that night to rape a young women. He did not he went out that night to have a few laughs and maybe get off with a woman . Given his fame, money and good looks he probably has no trouble achieving this. However this time the situation resulted in him being convicted of raping a young women.

Did he force himself on her , maybe

Did she consent ? Maybe not but given all the points raised in my previous texts I cannot see how any jury can say beyond a reasonable that he did indeed rape her??

Fact is you cannot... But this jury thought they could and that I and many people on this forum find hard to understand.

Let's leave this thread alone now.... Neither of us have any more to add.




.
The only real fact is the case was proven and a conviction for rape was achieved wasn't it?
Whatever you or I feel is the right or wrongs of the case.
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Old 08-01-2015, 01:07 AM #265
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The only real fact is the case was proven and a conviction for rape was achieved wasn't it?
Whatever you or I feel is the right or wrongs of the case.
the decision was an opinion , an opnion is not fact. the facts have been laid clear , you havent done your homework.. there is no proof of any rape , there is no proof sex took place at all.
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:05 AM #266
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the decision was an opinion , an opnion is not fact. the facts have been laid clear , you havent done your homework.. there is no proof of any rape , there is no proof sex took place at all.
It's better than fact, it's the law
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Old 08-01-2015, 05:16 AM #267
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It's better than fact, it's the law
again youre wrong, is a sentence its not the law. the facts are there is no proof of any sex taking place nor any rape whatsoever. a retrial is a must. in the meantime he has every right to resume his career working as do all former inmates
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Old 08-01-2015, 09:52 AM #268
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again youre wrong, is a sentence its not the law. the facts are there is no proof of any sex taking place nor any rape whatsoever. a retrial is a must. in the meantime he has every right to resume his career working as do all former inmates
What's that expression.........beating your head against a brick wall. Lol






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Old 08-01-2015, 09:52 AM #269
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again youre wrong, is a sentence its not the law. the facts are there is no proof of any sex taking place nor any rape whatsoever. a retrial is a must. in the meantime he has every right to resume his career working as do all former inmates
He was lawfully found guilty of the crime of rape, that was the finding of the judge based on the evidence.
I'm not wrong that's what happened.
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:19 AM #270
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And the move to Oldham is off.
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Old 08-01-2015, 10:29 AM #271
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He was lawfully found guilty of the crime of rape, that was the finding of the judge based on the evidence.
I'm not wrong that's what happened.
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:07 AM #272
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:18 AM #273
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Threats were made to club staff and their families apparently, what a disgrace
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:21 AM #274
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Threats were made to club staff and their families apparently, what a disgrace
ah well that's not right
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:54 AM #275
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Oldham Athletic are poised to pull out of the deal to sign convicted rapist Ched Evans after intolerable pressure from sponsors and fans even extended to threats to staff.

One board member told the BBC that a supporter had sickeningly told them they knew where their daughter worked and that she would be raped should the club follow through with plans to sign him.

The League One club are preparing a statement which is believed will call an end to a saga that started on Sunday when news first emerged that Evans was due to sign for a team.


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