[Angus]

Originally Posted by iRyan

They never did anything with Hef, they just lived there.

O...kay then So Hefner just gave them room and board for no other reason than from the goodness of his heart? Get real, whether he slept with them or not, they were there for his titillation and to perve over. How can you have any self respect if you allow yourself to be used like that? I bet their main objection to Kirk and Frankie is that get to perve for free!

The twins need to get over themselves and be grateful they get that reaction from guys, otherwise their whole raison d'etre is pretty much redundant, as they have nothing else to offer.

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by Angus

O...kay then So Hefner just gave them room and board for no other reason than from the goodness of his heart? Get real, whether he slept with them or not, they were there for his titillation and to perve over. How can you have any self respect if you allow yourself to be used like that? I bet their main objection to Kirk and Frankie is that get to perve for free!

The twins need to get over themselves and be grateful they get that reaction from guys, otherwise their whole raison d'etre is pretty much redundant, as they have nothing else to offer.

I kinda agree with this, they don't seem to offer much else. All they seem to talk about is the reactions guys give them. If your willing to go with an old grandad for money it's a bit fanciful to then expect other men to treat you with respect.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Angus

Get real, whether he slept with them or not, they were there for his titillation and to perve over. How can you have any self respect if you allow yourself to be used like that?

That sounds like the average Big Brother contestant...

They are their for our titillation, they are there for our enjoyment, they are there for our viewing pleasure. Basically, according to yourself, anyone who has ever appeared on a "reality show", of any sort in any country, should have no self respect...

Bit harsh.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by kefln

That sounds like the average Big Brother contestant...

They are their for our titillation, they are there for our enjoyment, they are there for our viewing pleasure. Basically, according to yourself, anyone who has ever appeared on a "reality show", of any sort in any country, should have no self respect...

Bit harsh.

Difference being that the twins are so up themselves that they think they are something they are not. No-one is entitled to demand respect, it has to be earned. They need a reality check. And try not to put words into other FM's mouths. The likes of glamour models who go on to BB usually make no bones about wanting to do the photo shoots in Nuts etc after. Nowt wrong with that, what you see is what you get. At least they don't put themselves on some fantasy pedestal as if they're unobtainable, like the twins believe they are, when we all know that they're anybody's for the right price.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by iRyan

They never did anything with Hef, they just lived there.

Haha... yeah. That's right. He let them live there out of the goodness of his heart and neither he, nor anyone associated with him wanted anything in return.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Livia

Haha... yeah. That's right. He let them live there out of the goodness of his heart and neither he, nor anyone associated with him wanted anything in return.

Not necessarily just out the goodness of his heart, could have been for the fame, money, publicity etc. that they would bring to his TV show, the first episode they were in got the highest ratings in the shows history

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not necessarily just out the goodness of his heart, could have been for the fame, money, publicity etc. that they would bring to his TV show, the first episode they were in got the highest ratings in the shows history

Yeah, right. No sex involved. At all. It was all just platonic.

[Angus]

It's not their arrogance that annoys the hell out of me, it's their hypocrisy. They have made a career out of their sexuality which is really all they have to offer, yet they resent it if men come on to them? They're moaning that the guys are disrespectful to them, but it comes with the territory. They don't have any problem shagging the ancient Hefner, because he bought and paid for them. Well what does that make them, and why do they deserve any respect, when they have none for themselves?

[waterhog]

the things they have to do for money dose give them a little right to be arrogant - just not in the bb house lol

[Angus]

It's hardly praiseworthy to sell your body to an octogenarian (or anyone else for that matter). What's there to be arrogant about in that??? They perpetuate the myth that women are nothing more than mere sexual objects, and then get indignant when that's all they're viewed as.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Angus

It's hardly praiseworthy to sell your body to an octogenarian (or anyone else for that matter). What's there to be arrogant about in that??? They perpetuate the myth that women are nothing more than mere sexual objects, and then get indignant when that's all they're viewed as.

If they were there to do a porn shoot, fair enough. But they're HM's, the whole Playboy thing is build on myth and fantasy for men, doesn't mean men have a reason to treat them like dirt just because of their job. They're right to be annoyed.

[KenCasanova]

Originally Posted by InOne

If they were there to do a porn shoot, fair enough. But they're HM's, the whole Playboy thing is build on myth and fantasy for men, doesn't mean men have a reason to treat them like dirt just because of their job. They're right to be annoyed.

Why are they right to be annoyed? They can't complain about being objects if they ARE objects. It's not even about their job anymore. Karissa releasing the sextape wasn't her job, she was ok with it being released and millions of men wanking off to it, yet they're pissed when frankie or kirk make snide little horny comments?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by KenCasanova

Why are they right to be annoyed? They can't complain about being objects if they ARE objects. It's not even about their job anymore. Karissa releasing the sextape wasn't her job, she was ok with it being released and millions of men wanking off to it, yet they're pissed when frankie or kirk make snide little horny comments?

Because they locked in a house with them 24/7, after a while comments like that would become annoying, and they can't really escape it there.

[Marsh.]

It makes me laugh when people say just because they're playboy bunnies and models that they shouldn't be spoken about the way Kirk and Frankie have is ridiculous.
And when the twins said it's disrespectful "especially to us" as though they're high and mighty.

They chose a career of getting their bits out for calendars and magazines. Who do they think buys these magazines? Little hormonal masturbating teenagers of course.
I mean they deserve as much respect as prostitutes due to the fact they sold their soul or at least their bodies to Hugh Hefner.

They earn their money from the wanking Frank Cocozza's of this world. Don't bite the hands that feed you girls, or maybe the hands that shake.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I mean they deserve as much respect as prostitutes due to the fact they sold their soul or at least their bodies to Hugh Hefner.

Well that statement just about killed the whole idea of female power didn't it?

Isn't there a current movement called the "Slut Walk"? That explaining, or excusing, rape by referring to any aspect of a woman's appearance is just plain wrong? That women, like men, should be allowed to wear and say what they want without being judged as sluts, or *****s?

There is a woman in the BB house that is "famous" for sleeping with her husbands brother, but the twins, who are essentially glamour models, are prostitutes. My head kinda hurts on that one - and before anyone knocks me, I like Nat, she seems sweet.

But in a house where the most intelligent thing Frankie has said is that looking at the girls makes him want to wank. And where Kirks idea of a chat up line - "nice tits, are they real?", the playboy twins are soulless and shouldn't be given respect....the mind boggles...

(Wow! What a rant! )

[kefln]

And now for my opinion...

The twins are arrogant, but not exactly in a bad way. They are self aware enough to try and make money off their looks. But they don't seem stupid about it, they seem to understand that its a business. That there is a line and they want to be respected.

Within the walls of the playboy mansion its likely that they've met alot of Kirks and Frankies. One being a rich kid who thinks he's someone and the other just being a walking hormone ball. They know how to handle it and are strong enough not to let it get out of control.

For the most part they seem quite savvy and they can talk things through together and with others in the house. They are more than two dumb blondes who take their boobs out and brush their hair.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by kefln

And now for my opinion...

The twins are arrogant, but not exactly in a bad way. They are self aware enough to try and make money off their looks. But they don't seem stupid about it, they seem to understand that its a business. That there is a line and they want to be respected.

Within the walls of the playboy mansion its likely that they've met alot of Kirks and Frankies. One being a rich kid who thinks he's someone and the other just being a walking hormone ball. They know how to handle it and are strong enough not to let it get out of control.

For the most part they seem quite savvy and they can talk things through together and with others in the house. They are more than two dumb blondes who take their boobs out and brush their hair.

Yeah I think most expected them to be stereotypical dumb blondes with that awful squarky american accent. Also to probably lead Frankie and Kirk on in some way. Bet they didn't even expect them to be so sharp tongued, their heads are definitely screwed on right. Nothing wrong with telling silly little boys where to go, especially when there is nothing in it for them.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kefln

Well that statement just about killed the whole idea of female power didn't it?

Isn't there a current movement called the "Slut Walk"? That explaining, or excusing, rape by referring to any aspect of a woman's appearance is just plain wrong? That women, like men, should be allowed to wear and say what they want without being judged as sluts, or *****s?

There is a woman in the BB house that is "famous" for sleeping with her husbands brother, but the twins, who are essentially glamour models, are prostitutes. My head kinda hurts on that one - and before anyone knocks me, I like Nat, she seems sweet.

But in a house where the most intelligent thing Frankie has said is that looking at the girls makes him want to wank. And where Kirks idea of a chat up line - "nice tits, are they real?", the playboy twins are soulless and shouldn't be given respect....the mind boggles...

(Wow! What a rant! )

Seriously? You think women like the twins promote female power?

Speaking as a professional in a male-dominated area of work, the slut walk to me is nothing more than a bunch of sluts making everyone look at them. How women expect to dress like streetwalkers and command respect is beyond me, in much the same way I'd find it hard to respect a bloke in a mankini.

So, Frankie said they make him want to masterbate (paraphrasing, obviously). Well? What about it? Isn't that their main function? The fact that lots of men would sleep with them given half the chance doesn't do much in my opinion to command "respect".

The twins make a living from the sex industry. They aren't just glamour models, they spent two years at the Playboy Mansion... I'm not going into what went on, they've been pretty open about that. They've sold sex and the idea of sex and they've been paid. I have no problem with woman earning their money any way they choose so long as they aren't coerced and they're happy doing it. But don't expect people to respect them like they've studied for their art.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Livia

Seriously? You think women like the twins promote female power?

Speaking as a professional in a male-dominated area of work, the slut walk to me is nothing more than a bunch of sluts making everyone look at them. How women expect to dress like streetwalkers and command respect is beyond me, in much the same way I'd find it hard to respect a bloke in a mankini.

So, Frankie said they make him want to masterbate (paraphrasing, obviously). Well? What about it? Isn't that their main function? The fact that lots of men would sleep with them given half the chance doesn't do much in my opinion to command "respect".

The twins make a living from the sex industry. They aren't just glamour models, they spent two years at the Playboy Mansion... I'm not going into what went on, they've been pretty open about that. They've sold sex and the idea of sex and they've been paid. I have no problem with woman earning their money any way they choose so long as they aren't coerced and they're happy doing it. But don't expect people to respect them like they've studied for their art.

They twins promote choice in an often double standard world.

They openly sell an image of sex, but they don’t, from what I can see, treat it like anything other than a job. They could have giggled and blown kisses across the room at the boys, basically lived up to the reputation of being brainless t*ts on legs. But they haven’t. Playboy was their job. In the past few days they have admitted that there were aspects that they liked and aspects that they didn’t. They’ve admitted that they have no problem in getting naked for the camera and doing a photoshoot, which is about selling sex. However, on a one to one basis, they like to be treated with a bit of respect. And not having some drooling leach asking them if their boobs and bums are real…

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kefln

They twins promote choice in an often double standard world.

They openly sell an image of sex, but they don’t, from what I can see, treat it like anything other than a job. They could have giggled and blown kisses across the room at the boys, basically lived up to the reputation of being brainless t*ts on legs. But they haven’t. Playboy was their job. In the past few days they have admitted that there were aspects that they liked and aspects that they didn’t. They’ve admitted that they have no problem in getting naked for the camera and doing a photoshoot, which is about selling sex. However, on a one to one basis, they like to be treated with a bit of respect. And not having some drooling leach asking them if their boobs and bums are real…

Drooling men are an aspect of the job. Without those drooling men they'd be doing some other job you don't need any training for but one which pays a lot less.

In your previous post you said they were examples of female power, almost like you thought they were role models. I do not respect them simply because they were born with good looks, which were tweaked by a cosmetic surgeon to enable them to sell sex for Heffner. No one just gets respect. Respect has to be earned... and they haven't earned mine. And where the housemates are concerned, they aren't alone.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by kefln

Well that statement just about killed the whole idea of female power didn't it?

Isn't there a current movement called the "Slut Walk"? That explaining, or excusing, rape by referring to any aspect of a woman's appearance is just plain wrong? That women, like men, should be allowed to wear and say what they want without being judged as sluts, or *****s?

There is a woman in the BB house that is "famous" for sleeping with her husbands brother, but the twins, who are essentially glamour models, are prostitutes. My head kinda hurts on that one - and before anyone knocks me, I like Nat, she seems sweet.

But in a house where the most intelligent thing Frankie has said is that looking at the girls makes him want to wank. And where Kirks idea of a chat up line - "nice tits, are they real?", the playboy twins are soulless and shouldn't be given respect....the mind boggles...

(Wow! What a rant! )

What are you on about? Of course women should be able to wear what they want without being judged as sluts or *****s. That's not what's under discussion here.

We are talking about two women who effectively sold themselves to Hefner for nigh on two years, ie prostituted themselves for money, fame, whatever. THEY themselves have set the parameters for how they are viewed by others and if anything they encourage sex discrimination by promoting their sexuality as their main, if not sole, attribute, rather than any discernible individual skills, talents or personalities. They get the reaction they do from hormonal boys because it is essential to how they have chosen to earn their living. The minute they stop getting that reaction their so called "careers" will be all washed up, and they'll be the first ones to be complaining.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Angus

What are you on about? Of course women should be able to wear what they want without being judged as sluts or *****s. That's not what's under discussion here.

We are talking about two women who effectively sold themselves to Hefner for nigh on two years, ie prostituted themselves for money, fame, whatever. THEY themselves have set the parameters for how they are viewed by others and if anything they encourage sex discrimination by promoting their sexuality as their main, if not sole, attribute, rather than any discernible individual skills, talents or personalities. They get the reaction they do from hormonal boys because it is essential to how they have chosen to earn their living. The minute they stop getting that reaction their so called "careers" will be all washed up, and they'll be the first ones to be complaining.

There is a whole section of that which I agree with. In fact I’d imagine that they’d agree with it too. But that doesn’t make it right.
Sex sells. They know it. We know it. There is a billion dollar business based on that fact. Whether you like it, or I like it, it doesn’t matter, its there.

However we don’t know what their contract with Playboy was. They were employees, hired to sell an image. We have no idea what went on behind closed doors. And its unlikely that we ever will, so they shouldn’t be called prostitutes.

On the other hand most famous people prostitute themselves for money. Celeb Big Brother is living proof of it. Singers do it all the time too – x factor. Why is it that we see footballers like David Beckham on advertisement posters wearing nothing but tighty whities? Would Broke back mountain have become a huge hit if it had stared Alan Carr and Marilyn Manson? No – sex sells.

This is not about whether you agree with their choice of career or not. They still have the right to separate their professional life and their personal.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kefln

Sex sells. They know it. We know it.

Which is exactly where my prostitute comparison came from.

Don't bring women's rights into a discussion about playboy bunnies who are purely there as sexual objects for horny teens and their dirty 80 yo boss who has a rota for shagging them. That in itself sets a precedent for how they're perceived.

It's like having sex in the middle of the office at work and expecting to not be judged about it. If you haven't got self respect then how are people going to respect you.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kefln

Well that statement just about killed the whole idea of female power didn't it?

Isn't there a current movement called the "Slut Walk"? That explaining, or excusing, rape by referring to any aspect of a woman's appearance is just plain wrong? That women, like men, should be allowed to wear and say what they want without being judged as sluts, or *****s?

There is a woman in the BB house that is "famous" for sleeping with her husbands brother, but the twins, who are essentially glamour models, are prostitutes. My head kinda hurts on that one - and before anyone knocks me, I like Nat, she seems sweet.

But in a house where the most intelligent thing Frankie has said is that looking at the girls makes him want to wank. And where Kirks idea of a chat up line - "nice tits, are they real?", the playboy twins are soulless and shouldn't be given respect....the mind boggles...

(Wow! What a rant! )

I suggest you stop right there. Don't try to infer that I was making out girls deserve to be raped because they dress provocatively or whatever. That WASN'T my point.

If you re-read my post you'll see I said they were just like prostitutes because as playboy bunnies they are there to be paid for Hugh Hefner's perverted pleasure. Anyone who thinks they lived in his mansion and have not had any sexual contact with him must be naive. THAT'S where my prostitute comparison came in. They shagged an 80 odd year old man to get by in life and earn money from horny masturbating little boys like Frankie Cocozza, so it's a bit rich when they say Frankie's attitude towards them is disrespectful as they disrespect themselves in the public eye having done what they've done.

The calendars and magazines they pose for are there PURELY for the gratification of people who find those images arousing, like porn.

Completely different to a model in a clothing catalogue or advert which has an entirely different purpose.

Don't turn my point into a generalised viewpoint of women in general, or even models in general.

And, yes, I agree what a rant.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

If you re-read my post you'll see I said they were just like prostitutes because as playboy bunnies they are there to be paid for Hugh Hefner's perverted pleasure. Anyone who thinks they lived in his mansion and have not had any sexual contact with him must be naive.

THAT'S where my prostitute comparison came in. They shagged an 80 odd year old man to get by in life and earn money from horny masturbating little boys like Frankie Cocozza, so it's a bit rich when they say Frankie's attitude towards them is disrespectful as they disrespect themselves in the public eye having done what they've done.

That would be called personal opinion.

The facts are that you, me and anyone reading this post have no idea what happened in the playboy mansion.

We can assume - we've all heard the stories - but we don't ACTUALLY KNOW what the twins and Hef ACTUALLY did together.

Their ACTUAL job was the promotion of the Playboy empire.

They even said that they weren't allowed down to half the parties there. That most of the time they were bored, just sitting around the house.

So yes d*mning someone as a prostitute based simply on how you view the situation...

And there are vast differences between a persons professional life and their personal life. Like it or not the so called glamour modeling life is a business and playboy is a part of that life. If a girl chooses to pose nude for a camera, that does not make her a *****. And believe it or not that doesn't mean that people can call her one.