[arista]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No - Lampedusa is first.

Sure how many can that Hold?

[Northern Monkey]

I think there needs to be and probably will soon be a large naval or police presence in the Med from multiple countries to catch these ships and the resources to ship these migrants straight back to there country of origin.If it was done right then it would deter them from attempting these journeys.If people knew it was futile to try aswell as dangerous then hopefully they would think twice.The EU should pay for this since all its members pay into it.It is an EU problem.

[Nedusa]

This is a sad story, but to be honest no country in Europe can cope with a virtual never ending supply of African migrants who are mostly uneducated and with little or no skills.

They are of no use to these developed European countries and must not be allowed entry.

The EU needs to put into place Euro wide border controls to guard against this.

These potential migrants need to stop thinking they can just relocate to a richer country and all their problems will be solved. They cannot and should strive with help of billions upon billions of pounds of foreign aid to make their own countries prosperous .

They need to stay in their own countries and put their energies into tackling the problems there, not creating more problems for already overstretched European Countries

[arista]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

This is a sad story, but to be honest no country in Europe can cope with a virtual never ending supply of African migrants who are mostly uneducated and with little or no skills.

They are of no use to these developed European countries and must not be allowed entry.

The EU needs to put into place Euro wide border controls to guard against this.

These potential migrants need to stop thinking they can just relocate to a richer country and all their problems will be solved. They cannot and should strive with help of billions upon billions of pounds of foreign aid to make their own countries prosperous .

They need to stay in their own countries and put their energies into tackling the problems there, not creating more problems for already overstretched European Countries

Some said its cheaper to keep them in a "Big Ship"
until they go home
or onto another nation (Germany I say)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

This is a sad story, but to be honest no country in Europe can cope with a virtual never ending supply of African migrants who are mostly uneducated and with little or no skills.

They are of no use to these developed European countries and must not be allowed entry.

The EU needs to put into place Euro wide border controls to guard against this.

These potential migrants need to stop thinking they can just relocate to a richer country and all their problems will be solved. They cannot and should strive with help of billions upon billions of pounds of foreign aid to make their own countries prosperous .

They need to stay in their own countries and put their energies into tackling the problems there, not creating more problems for already overstretched European Countries

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

This is a sad story, but to be honest no country in Europe can cope with a virtual never ending supply of African migrants who are mostly uneducated and with little or no skills.

They are of no use to these developed European countries and must not be allowed entry.

The EU needs to put into place Euro wide border controls to guard against this.

These potential migrants need to stop thinking they can just relocate to a richer country and all their problems will be solved. They cannot and should strive with help of billions upon billions of pounds of foreign aid to make their own countries prosperous .

They need to stay in their own countries and put their energies into tackling the problems there, not creating more problems for already overstretched European Countries

Whilst I agree with all this,these migrants are not piling into boats willy nilly they are being promised a better life by unscrupulous people and paying to cross in a lot of instances, I agree the waters should be patrolled if nothing else to stop these people from being ripped off.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Whilst I agree with all this,these migrants are not piling into boats willy nilly they are being promised a better life by unscrupulous people and paying to cross in a lot of instances, I agree the waters should be patrolled if nothing else to stop these people from being ripped off.

Yes, I would agree with that...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Whilst I agree with all this,these migrants are not piling into boats willy nilly they are being promised a better life by unscrupulous people and paying to cross in a lot of instances, I agree the waters should be patrolled if nothing else to stop these people from being ripped off.

It sounds like the gullible UK populace come every election time.

[Kizzy]

What is illuminating about the plight of these displaced refugees?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What is illuminating about the plight of these displaced refugees?

well it illuminates the problem for that wee island off the coast of Sicily for a kick off

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well it illuminates the problem for that wee island off the coast of Sicily for a kick off

Naw... And there's me thinking it was highlighting a serious human rights violation.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well it illuminates the problem for that wee island off the coast of Sicily for a kick off

Exactly.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What is illuminating about the plight of these displaced refugees?

Yes Isis
got them running to stay alive.


We can not have any


So send them All to Germany

[Vicky.]

Honestly, I do believe in general we need to tighten our borders. But for people like this..I really do think ALL EU countries should be doing everything they can to help them. These people aren't coming for benefits, or because our wages are higher than theirs, they genuinely are terrified for theirs and their childrens lives. Its completely different. I heard on the news a few weeks back that the amount of syrian refugees we have taken in was ridiculously low (something like 100 or so IIRC). This is a ****ing disgrace.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Honestly, I do believe in general we need to tighten our borders. But for people like this..I really do think ALL EU countries should be doing everything they can to help them. These people aren't coming for benefits, or because our wages are higher than theirs, they genuinely are terrified for theirs and their childrens lives. Its completely different. I heard on the news a few weeks back that the amount of syrian refugees we have taken in was ridiculously low (something like 100 or so IIRC). This is a ****ing disgrace.

I agree with this as well

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Honestly, I do believe in general we need to tighten our borders. But for people like this..I really do think ALL EU countries should be doing everything they can to help them. These people aren't coming for benefits, or because our wages are higher than theirs, they genuinely are terrified for theirs and their childrens lives. Its completely different. I heard on the news a few weeks back that the amount of syrian refugees we have taken in was ridiculously low (something like 100 or so IIRC). This is a ****ing disgrace.

Yes, are many not Christians fleeing to a Christian country in fear of persecution?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes, are many not Christians fleeing to a Christian country in fear of persecution?

I think you would do well to examine the truth about this 'Capsized boat' incident then you can rethink your question:

The boat is a microcosm of the Immigrant/Islamic Extremism REAL status Quo in the world proper.

Yes Christians are fleeing persecution from the the murderous savages that are Islamic Extremists, and there WERE Christians on that boat, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to escape evil when you are forced by circumstance to flee in the same craft as the very demonic savages you are fleeing from, and those poor Christians were deliberately and callously THROWN OVERBOARD by certain of the superior numbers of MUSLIMS aboard that boat - left to DROWN in the sea - LONG BEFORE the boat ever capsized.

This beggars the question of :

A) What were SOME of these poor unfortunate illegal immigrant Muslims fleeing from? Murderous, intolerant barbaric butchers? But that is a description of themselves surely? How can you flee from yourselves?

B) Having emphatically PROVED by their callous, inhumane, murderous actions that they identify more closely with those who they PROFESS to be fleeing from than those who they are attempting to flee to - then just WHY are they fleeing from them at all? And are they REALLY fleeing from them at all, or just using the 'Refugee'/ 'Political Asylum Seeker' claim as so many other 'Refugees' have used it so successfully before, to gain entry into Western countries for no other reason than the wish to secure a better life?

C) Or are these murderers secreted among the poor unfortunate capsized illegal immigrants; part of the ones that the Islamic terrorists leaders boasted of infiltrating Western Democracies via this very method - hidden among immigrants?

D) The fact that Italian police have arrested 15 Muslim migrants for throwing 12 Christians overboard would suggest that far GREATER numbers of these murdering, Islamic Extremists were originally aboard - unless we believe that Allah saved the only 15 that there were - so it would bear out that SOME of this boatload of illegal immigrants are far more than they superficially appear to be, and not what they PURPORT to be..

E) Had this boat NOT capsized, and events transpired as they have then we would have been UNAWARE that at LEAST 15 of the original 105 illegals on board were murdering Islamic Extremists, and HAD it landed in the UK and not trying to land in Italy, would not every Left Wing, Liberal have proposed welcoming them ALL with open arms?

F) Would we not then UNKNOWINGLY be letting into our country 15 MURDERING ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS?

G) How MANY of these TERRORISTS do you think we have ALREADY really let into the UK as a result of our unfettered, inane 'OPEN DOOR' immigration policy?

The above FACT, and the FACT that the latest figures for British domiciled immigrant Muslims who have left these shores and gone and joined IS in Syria is at LEAST 2,000 PROVES what Nedusa and I have been stating on here for months -

That unfettered immigration is INCONTROVERTIBLY linked with Islsamic Terrorism.

[bots]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think you would do well to examine the truth about this 'Capsized boat' incident then you can rethink your question:

The boat is a microcosm of the Immigrant/Islamic Extremism REAL status Quo in the world proper.

Yes Christians are fleeing persecution from the the murderous savages that are Islamic Extremists, and there WERE Christians on that boat, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to escape evil when you are forced by circumstance to flee in the same craft as the very demonic savages you are fleeing from, and those poor Christians were deliberately and callously THROWN OVERBOARD by certain of the superior numbers of MUSLIMS aboard that boat - left to DROWN in the sea - LONG BEFORE the boat ever capsized.

This beggars the question of :

A) What were SOME of these poor unfortunate illegal immigrant Muslims fleeing from? Murderous, intolerant barbaric butchers? But that is a description of themselves surely? How can you flee from yourselves?

B) Having emphatically PROVED by their callous, inhumane, murderous actions that they identify more closely with those who they PROFESS to be fleeing from than those who they are attempting to flee to - then just WHY are they fleeing from them at all? And are they REALLY fleeing from them at all, or just using the 'Refugee'/ 'Political Asylum Seeker' claim as so many other 'Refugees' have used it so successfully before, to gain entry into Western countries for no other reason than the wish to secure a better life?

C) Or are these murderers secreted among the poor unfortunate capsized illegal immigrants; part of the ones that the Islamic terrorists leaders boasted of infiltrating Western Democracies via this very method - hidden among immigrants?

D) The fact that Italian police have arrested 15 Muslim migrants for throwing 12 Christians overboard would suggest that far GREATER numbers of these murdering, Islamic Extremists were originally aboard - unless we believe that Allah saved the only 15 that there were - so it would bear out that SOME of this boatload of illegal immigrants are far more than they superficially appear to be, and not what they PURPORT to be..

E) Had this boat NOT capsized, and events transpired as they have then we would have been UNAWARE that at LEAST 15 of the original 105 illegals on board were murdering Islamic Extremists, and HAD it landed in the UK and not trying to land in Italy, would not every Left Wing, Liberal have proposed welcoming them ALL with open arms?

F) Would we not then UNKNOWINGLY be letting into our country 15 MURDERING ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS?

G) How MANY of these TERRORISTS do you think we have ALREADY really let into the UK as a result of our unfettered, inane 'OPEN DOOR' immigration policy?

The above FACT, and the FACT that the latest figures for British domiciled immigrant Muslims who have left these shores and gone and joined IS in Syria is at LEAST 2,000 PROVES what Nedusa and I have been stating on here for months -

That unfettered immigration is INCONTROVERTIBLY linked with Islsamic Terrorism.

The logic for some of your arguments falls apart when considering the following:

1. In the UK we have muslims born here that have subsequently been radicalised and choose to head to the middle east to "fight the good fight". Therefore not intending to cause havoc in the UK

2. Given 1, why would ISIS need to send people to our shores using covert, largely unsuccessful methods when they already have all the radicals they need already living here legally.

Something doesn't add up here. I'm not suggesting we should not be concerned and careful about who we let in, but its not logical, so we need to be careful before labelling every muslim on a boat a terrorist

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The logic for some of your arguments falls apart when considering the following:

1. In the UK we have muslims born here that have subsequently been radicalised and choose to head to the middle east to "fight the good fight". Therefore not intending to cause havoc in the UK

2. Given 1, why would ISIS need to send people to our shores using covert, largely unsuccessful methods when they already have all the radicals they need already living here legally.

Something doesn't add up here. I'm not suggesting we should not be concerned and careful about who we let in, but its not logical, so we need to be careful before labelling every muslim on a boat a terrorist

None of my logic falls apart at all.

1) Some UK born Muslims may have 'subsequently been radicalised' and therefore chose to head to the middle east to "fight the good fight" therefore not intending to cause havoc in the UK, but that is no guarantee that other UK born Muslims have not been 'radicalised' years ago and have been covertly aiding and abetting the terrorist cause from within their base in this country.

Can you state with absolute certainty that such is NOT the case? Or do you believe that there are no 5th columnist terrorists and sympathisers among the immigrant Muslim population in this country and that all 'radicalised' ones kindly leave these shores immediately upon indoctrination?.

2. In answer to your question of why; "Given 1, why would ISIS need to send people to our shores using covert, largely unsuccessful methods when they already have all the radicals they need already living here legally." I will let ISIS answer for me:

"ISIS threatens to send 500,000 migrants to Europe as a 'psychological weapon' in chilling echo of Gaddafi's prophecy that the Mediterranean 'will become a sea of chaos'.

Italian press today published claims that ISIS has threatened to release the huge wave of migrants to cause chaos in Europe if they are attacked. And letters from jihadists show plans to hide terrorists among refugees In 2011, Muammar Gaddafi ominously predicted war would come to Libya He was deposed in a violent coup and killed in October of the same year Islamic State executed 21 Egyptian Christians on Libyan beach this week Crisis in Libya has led to surge in number of migrants heading for Europe".

And the link for the full article (one of many):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...on-bombed.html

With respect; when you write: "Something doesn't add up here. I'm not suggesting we should not be concerned and careful about who we let in, but its not logical, so we need to be careful before labelling every muslim on a boat a terrorist"

I did NOT 'label every Muslim on a boat as a terrorist'- - only the 15 who threw the Christians overboard to drown just because they were NOT Muslims. If you re-read my post you will see this clearly as the following relevant excerpts from that post attests:

Originally Posted by kirklancaster View Post

Yes Christians are fleeing persecution from the the murderous savages that are Islamic Extremists, and there WERE Christians on that boat, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to escape evil when you are forced by circumstance to flee in the same craft as the very demonic savages you are fleeing from, and those poor Christians were deliberately and callously THROWN OVERBOARD by certain of the superior numbers of MUSLIMS aboard that boat - left to DROWN in the sea - LONG BEFORE the boat ever capsized.

This beggars the question of :

A) What were SOME of these poor unfortunate illegal immigrant Muslims fleeing from? Murderous, intolerant barbaric butchers? But that is a description of themselves surely? How can you flee from yourselves?

C) Or are these murderers secreted among the poor unfortunate capsized illegal immigrants; part of the ones that the Islamic terrorists leaders boasted of infiltrating Western Democracies via this very method - hidden among immigrants?

E) Had this boat NOT capsized, and events transpired as they have then we would have been UNAWARE that at LEAST 15 of the original 105 illegals on board were murdering Islamic Extremists, and HAD it landed in the UK and not trying to land in Italy, would not every Left Wing, Liberal have proposed welcoming them ALL with open arms?

F) Would we not then UNKNOWINGLY be letting into our country 15 MURDERING ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS?

I think that the numerous emboldened text irrefutably proves that I did NOT 'label every Muslim on a boat as a terrorist' and I feel therefore that I do not 'need to be careful' about anything - apart from constantly being misinterpreted and misquoted.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think you would do well to examine the truth about this 'Capsized boat' incident then you can rethink your question:

The boat is a microcosm of the Immigrant/Islamic Extremism REAL status Quo in the world proper.

Yes Christians are fleeing persecution from the the murderous savages that are Islamic Extremists, and there WERE Christians on that boat, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to escape evil when you are forced by circumstance to flee in the same craft as the very demonic savages you are fleeing from, and those poor Christians were deliberately and callously THROWN OVERBOARD by certain of the superior numbers of MUSLIMS aboard that boat - left to DROWN in the sea - LONG BEFORE the boat ever capsized.

This beggars the question of :

A) What were SOME of these poor unfortunate illegal immigrant Muslims fleeing from? Murderous, intolerant barbaric butchers? But that is a description of themselves surely? How can you flee from yourselves?

B) Having emphatically PROVED by their callous, inhumane, murderous actions that they identify more closely with those who they PROFESS to be fleeing from than those who they are attempting to flee to - then just WHY are they fleeing from them at all? And are they REALLY fleeing from them at all, or just using the 'Refugee'/ 'Political Asylum Seeker' claim as so many other 'Refugees' have used it so successfully before, to gain entry into Western countries for no other reason than the wish to secure a better life?

C) Or are these murderers secreted among the poor unfortunate capsized illegal immigrants; part of the ones that the Islamic terrorists leaders boasted of infiltrating Western Democracies via this very method - hidden among immigrants?

D) The fact that Italian police have arrested 15 Muslim migrants for throwing 12 Christians overboard would suggest that far GREATER numbers of these murdering, Islamic Extremists were originally aboard - unless we believe that Allah saved the only 15 that there were - so it would bear out that SOME of this boatload of illegal immigrants are far more than they superficially appear to be, and not what they PURPORT to be..

E) Had this boat NOT capsized, and events transpired as they have then we would have been UNAWARE that at LEAST 15 of the original 105 illegals on board were murdering Islamic Extremists, and HAD it landed in the UK and not trying to land in Italy, would not every Left Wing, Liberal have proposed welcoming them ALL with open arms?

F) Would we not then UNKNOWINGLY be letting into our country 15 MURDERING ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS?

G) How MANY of these TERRORISTS do you think we have ALREADY really let into the UK as a result of our unfettered, inane 'OPEN DOOR' immigration policy?

The above FACT, and the FACT that the latest figures for British domiciled immigrant Muslims who have left these shores and gone and joined IS in Syria is at LEAST 2,000 PROVES what Nedusa and I have been stating on here for months -

That unfettered immigration is INCONTROVERTIBLY linked with Islsamic Terrorism.

I acknowledge you feel that the refugees are not Christians but are in fact Muslims masquerading as Christians.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I acknowledge you feel that the refugees are not Christians but are in fact Muslims masquerading as Christians.

Please - for God's sake - before we get another thread closed, just explain what you mean because once again I do not understand what you are trying to say.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Honestly, I do believe in general we need to tighten our borders. But for people like this..I really do think ALL EU countries should be doing everything they can to help them. These people aren't coming for benefits, or because our wages are higher than theirs, they genuinely are terrified for theirs and their childrens lives. Its completely different. I heard on the news a few weeks back that the amount of syrian refugees we have taken in was ridiculously low (something like 100 or so IIRC). This is a ****ing disgrace.

The migrants all come from Sub Saharan Africa. There is not much evidence I have seen that they fear for their lives - they are coming because the European streets are paved with gold in their eyes. Its mostly young men.

8,500 migrants had been rescued at sea between Friday and Monday.

One man expecting to leave on Wednesday night from the Egyptian coast, another popular launching pad for smugglers, earlier told the Guardian: “I’m determined to go whether or not there is a rescue operation. I’m risking my life for something bigger, for ambitions bigger than this.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ean-passengers


But the sharp increase is seen as a sign of both the desperation of the people, and the determination of the criminal gangs to ship people to Europe.

At the end of last year people traffickers also began using a new technique – buying a large cargo vessel, filling it with migrants who had paid for the journey, and then setting it on course for Europe and abandoning the ship.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-on-board.html


Stop the criminal gangs that are organising these boats and making top dollar.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Honestly, I do believe in general we need to tighten our borders. But for people like this..I really do think ALL EU countries should be doing everything they can to help them. These people aren't coming for benefits, or because our wages are higher than theirs, they genuinely are terrified for theirs and their childrens lives. Its completely different. I heard on the news a few weeks back that the amount of syrian refugees we have taken in was ridiculously low (something like 100 or so IIRC). This is a ****ing disgrace.

Why are they terrified for their Childrens lives ? what has happened to cause this.

They are economic migrants are they not, not refugees from a war torn Country.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Why are they terrified for their Childrens lives ? what has happened to cause this.

They are economic migrants are they not, not refugees from a war torn Country.

Libya's not a war torn country? It's been ravaged by chaos and anarchy ever since Gaddafi's death. Unfortunately that has made it a gold mine for smugglers and a hot bed of extremism where IS have stated their intention to use boats like this to ship fighters into Europe.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Libya's not a war torn country? It's been ravaged by chaos and anarchy ever since Gaddafi's death. Unfortunately that has made it a gold mine for smugglers and a hot bed of extremism where IS have stated their intention to use boats like this to ship fighters into Europe.

Exactly - and the very real possibility that IS are actually implementing that plan and have been for a while is a real worry. The trouble is - how do we spot them?