[Jan S]

Originally Posted by Semtex

I concur, but he's still all mouth and no trousers.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight.......

Bloor is a Chihuahua but sadly with the heart of Edmund Blackadder.

and lewis doesn't look nearly like that now - he looks very soft, even a little doughy. too much soft living and getting his own way.

[jet]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Jet you are getting me confused with someone else because nothing you are saying is correct.... I don't like Lewis....I've repeatedly posted about him calling the females birds and telling them they are good girls ...I may well have been the first person on here to say that...and as recently as this week end I have been saying that.
When did I call Heavy D names about his weight ? When ? And what's younger got to do with it... You forget I was team Jason....these things you're saying are not fare Jet... just accept that I don't like the guy just like I have to accept others don't like Bear....we all have certain types we can't stand and unfortunately mine always seem to popular with the majority ...,I can't cow tail to people just because they think Heavy is a legend or Biggins is a National Treasure.., I cant stand either
As for Lewis taking drink and patronising Heavy I would like to know the reason why if different to the reason they gave....seemed a random thing to do and knowing how inconsiderate Heavy is I tend to believe them even though they themselves were being sly and inconsiderate too.
His lack of respect for women and his lack of respect for volume control around the others, esp first thing in the morning is exactly what brings me to believe he could have a lack of respect for people's drinks.
But one thing is certain, disliking Marnie and Lewis does not make me dislike Heavy any less....he is the worst by a mile for me and I don't feel sorry for him in any way.

When you said this:

Lewis is an idiot but if he's still the same when he's Heavys age he too will be a bigger idiot on the same scale as Heavy D.

....I interpreted that as saying it's more understandable that Lewis could get away with doing awful things like making Heavy say please and thank you for stolen drinks because he is young and Heavy isn't. As Lewis was the bigger idiot last night by far I don't really know what else that quote means?

If you read the sentence again I didn't say YOU called Heavy D names about his weight, I said Lewis did.

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by jet

When you said this:


....I interpreted that as saying it's more understandable that Lewis could get away with doing awful things like making Heavy say please and thank you for stolen drinks because he is young and Heavy isn't. As Lewis was the bigger idiot last night by far I don't really know what else that quote means?

If you read the sentence again I didn't say YOU called Heavy D names about his weight, I said Lewis did.

Sorry if it seemed you accused me of disliking him for his size and looks but it was tagged onto the post that was all about me and you didn't make it clear it wasn't...I really didn't like that Jet but we have crossed wires obviously...im not here to fall out with you.
Heavy D acts like he's one of East 17 but he's 43...I find that irritating. I did as soon as he arrived in the house. I like the rivalry between Bear and Aubrey even though what she did to him was a disgrace, so I think the reason I don't like seeing Heavy take people down is because what he did to Chloe was without any provocation and just mean...therefore he lost any respect from me even if what the others were doing was also wrong.
" The dumb act he uses as his celebrity image " is what I said he's too old to pull off....and he is...if that's the best he's got its twenty years out of date and it's not working for me but it's clear others like that. Also by 43 we are supposed to have learnt how to manage situations in a different way to that of a 23 year old.....watching those two last night you would think they were the same age in every way. I think he's really immature and immaturity is what young people have and its supoosed to diminish as we get older.

[jet]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Sorry if it seemed you accused me of disliking him for his size and looks but it was tagged onto the post that was all about me and you didn't make it clear it wasn't...I really didn't like that Jet but we have crossed wires obviously...im not here to fall out with you.
Heavy D acts like he's one of East 17 but he's 43...I find that irritating. I did as soon as he arrived in the house. I like the rivalry between Bear and Aubrey even though what she did to him was a disgrace, so I think the reason I don't like seeing Heavy take people down is because what he did to Chloe was without any provocation and just mean...therefore he lost any respect from me even if what the others were doing was also wrong.
" The dumb act he uses as his celebrity image " is what I said he's too old to pull off....and he is...if that's the best he's got its twenty years out of date and it's not working for me but it's clear others like that. Also by 43 we are supposed to have learnt how to manage situations in a different way to that of a 23 year old.....watching those two last night you would think they were the same age in every way. I think he's really immature and immaturity is what young people have and its supoosed to diminish as we get older.

Sorry about that h2go, it was a different post of mine you were referring to, I see that now, and I agree I made it sound as if you didn't like Heavy because he was fat...my mistake, it was a general comment, I know you have never ran him down for his weight, and wouldn't.
As for immaturity, give me someone who is immature for their age (and I'm not convinced Heavy really is) over someone who is an arrogant self - entitled bully like Lewis any day....I know which one I'd be on the side of...

On a side note, some young people are very mature, some aren't, some older people are very mature, some aren't, it isn't cut and dried.

[Jan S]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Sorry if it seemed you accused me of disliking him for his size and looks but it was tagged onto the post that was all about me and you didn't make it clear it wasn't...I really didn't like that Jet but we have crossed wires obviously...im not here to fall out with you.
Heavy D acts like he's one of East 17 but he's 43...I find that irritating. I did as soon as he arrived in the house. I like the rivalry between Bear and Aubrey even though what she did to him was a disgrace, so I think the reason I don't like seeing Heavy take people down is because what he did to Chloe was without any provocation and just mean...therefore he lost any respect from me even if what the others were doing was also wrong.
" The dumb act he uses as his celebrity image " is what I said he's too old to pull off....and he is...if that's the best he's got its twenty years out of date and it's not working for me but it's clear others like that. Also by 43 we are supposed to have learnt how to manage situations in a different way to that of a 23 year old.....watching those two last night you would think they were the same age in every way. I think he's really immature and immaturity is what young people have and its supoosed to diminish as we get older.

his celebrity persona is horrendous, but some of us are able to see past that and try to base our conclusions (ever-shifting ) on the actual person. i'm not sure i've seen anyone here defending his Heavy D caricature.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by jet

Really? Yet Heavy D is the only one who has managed to rile up the riler - uppers and get them all hot and bothered. He single - handedly exposed Lewis's weakness's, took the spotlight off a very silent and subdued Bear and didn't succumb to outright anger when Lewis insisted he say 'please' and 'thank you' for letting him have a little wine after he and Marnie pilfered most of it for themselves. He doesn't need any community care thank you very much, he took on the bullies tonight and made them look like the pillocks.
He was winding up with a surprising dollop of humour considering how he was treated and I thought wind up merchants were revered this series?
But of course he's at risk on the next eviction because he has a big wobbly belly and isn't good looking...I get it now....

Yes, summed it up yet again, Jet!

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by Jan S

his celebrity persona is horrendous, but some of us are able to see past that and try to base our conclusions (ever-shifting ) on the actual person. i'm not sure i've seen anyone here defending his Heavy D caricature.

I try to look past the celebrity persona but it's hard when that persona is one I dislike so much....I think because he seems to be in it 24/7 and I don't like it, makes it hard to digest...which I'm sure is exactly how it must feel for people who don't like Bears persona...Heavys voice irritates me so much but it's a voice that hits all the buttons for me....Bears voice is irritating other people cause it hits all their buttons....sometimes our assessments are based on just their behaviour but sometimes it's based on the type of personality they are.....I disliked Bear on launch night on sight before he upset anyone...and each thing he's done since that I find ugly just fits with my perception of him on launch night.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by hot2go

The biggest difference between these two is about twenty years ....Heavy D is a prized pillock ....it's like watching a care in the community documentary.

This comment is so wrong on so many levels. It is the sort of thing I would expect to come out of Lewis' mouth.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by hot2go

His body type or looks are not relevant to me as they aren't in any housemate ... I just don't like him..., I can't stand the volume and the performance .... I should love him winding up the young lads but I don't ... I love the rivalry between Aubrey and Bear and between Frankie and bear but I just don't like Heavy D... I disliked him as soon as he entered the house and that dislike was cemented when he spoke so badly to Chloe... I don't like women being talked about and treated like that... I don't respect the dumb act that he obv uses as his celebrity image, it's not what interests me in any way and he's too old to pull it off ... Sorry if you think that's dismissive but it's the way it is... He is exactly the type of person I don't like in real life. I don't know how they are all enduring being locked up with him, I really don't.

You made the point about not liking him for the way he spoke to Chloe, and that you dislike women being spoken to in that way. However, at the same time, you support someone who is cheating on his girlfriend through his actions in the house and using Chloe like a pawn in his game, just to wind up Heavy D....... I am disgusted by anyone who treats women like that!

There's a massive hypocrisy in your views here, and a massive irony when Bear's treatment of women is so much worse.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Semtex

How dare he not show the maturity that Bear, Lewis & Marnie have shown.....

Mug!

Are you calling me a mug ?

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Jan S

on the contrary, his diary room chats and noms show the complete reverse. early on in the series, when BB decided to air some parts of his conversations with other housemates regarding strategies and so on out in the garden, he displayed an ability to connect the dots and understand the machinations, to formulate and conceptualise. the man is not an idiot - the persona IS, and it's what he uses as a shield and as a tool to bait when he sees it will do the job - like in last night's show - and something he's built an income on. cannot STAND his persona, but would like to get to know more about the man, his background, what makes him tick and not just the noise of his BOOM!

Spot on yet again, Jan.

[DanielM787]

Lewis is a bully, he was completely out of order, so was marnie

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by Garfie

You made the point about not liking him for the way he spoke to Chloe, and that you dislike women being spoken to in that way. However, at the same time, you support someone who is cheating on his girlfriend through his actions in the house and using Chloe like a pawn in his game, just to wind up Heavy D....... I am disgusted by anyone who treats women like that!

There's a massive hypocrisy in your views here, and a massive irony when Bear's treatment of women is so much worse.

No hypocricy about it...Im going on what takes place in the house....it's what I always do....people's real life relationships are their business and complicated....I know nothing of the circumstances.
As for Chloe, he was a pawn in her game as much as she was in his....she was the one laughing loudest and had as big a reason to wind up Heavy as he did. You all patronise her, that attitude to women again, like she's some victim and too dumb to make her own decisions....she's not educated but she's def not dumb and if she didn't want to be around Bear she would make it very clear...like she did with Heavy, and that brings us back to the start again ...Heavy doesn't respect women

[hot2go]

Incidentally Garfie, you have my take on the way Heavy treated Chloe, what is yours ?

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by empire

lewis thinks that because he has the perfect body and perfect looks, and he sees heavy d as not perfect, in his mind heavy d should be ridiculed and humiliated and also berated, lewis and marnie talk about him in a very berated way,

Two very shallow and spiteful people - what they do to Heavy D is actually cruel. I cant stand it, it is bullying. Lewis and Marnie are selfish awful human beings. Offer to share things equally before you berate anyone else about manners. They 2 should be punished - a whole week without alcohol.

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by Jan S

his celebrity persona is horrendous, but some of us are able to see past that and try to base our conclusions (ever-shifting ) on the actual person. i'm not sure i've seen anyone here defending his Heavy D caricature.

Absolutely agree -

I love Bear and Heavy D - cant deal with Lewis and Marnie.

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by hot2go

Sorry if it seemed you accused me of disliking him for his size and looks but it was tagged onto the post that was all about me and you didn't make it clear it wasn't...I really didn't like that Jet but we have crossed wires obviously...im not here to fall out with you.
Heavy D acts like he's one of East 17 but he's 43...I find that irritating. I did as soon as he arrived in the house. I like the rivalry between Bear and Aubrey even though what she did to him was a disgrace, so I think the reason I don't like seeing Heavy take people down is because what he did to Chloe was without any provocation and just mean...therefore he lost any respect from me even if what the others were doing was also wrong.
" The dumb act he uses as his celebrity image " is what I said he's too old to pull off....and he is...if that's the best he's got its twenty years out of date and it's not working for me but it's clear others like that. Also by 43 we are supposed to have learnt how to manage situations in a different way to that of a 23 year old.....watching those two last night you would think they were the same age in every way. I think he's really immature and immaturity is what young people have and its supoosed to diminish as we get older.

Im watching it right now and they re all taunting him "coo eee" taking the mick out of his T shirt - all three of them -they are ostracising him and baiting him.

Its not about maturity its the fact that those three show no respect to anyone else - they stole that wine, they tried to wind him up. They re awfull. Bears alright to me because I think once Lewis is gone Bears more friendly side will come out.

Wish Lewis and Marnie would just leave already. Im tired of the arguing and want to see more humour in the tasks etc. Still miss BB17.

[Patricia4]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

I think one of my favourite moments has to now be Heavy D bobbing and weaving like a boxer

That was a laugh

[hot2go]

Originally Posted by sungrass

Im watching it right now and they re all taunting him "coo eee" taking the mick out of his T shirt - all three of them -they are ostracising him and baiting him.

Its not about maturity its the fact that those three show no respect to anyone else - they stole that wine, they tried to wind him up. They re awfull. Bears alright to me because I think once Lewis is gone Bears more friendly side will come out.

Wish Lewis and Marnie would just leave already. Im tired of the arguing and want to see more humour in the tasks etc. Still miss BB17.

I actually don't feel sorry for Heavy but I also don't like Marnie and Lewis....Heavy taunts people himself and what he got last night was no worse than what he gave out to Chloe, sorry no sympathy from me.....but Bear didn't get involved last night until the point where he tried to stop Lewis making an even bigger mistake ...Bear didn't take the drinks or laugh about doing so...he was in the garden when Lewis and Marnie did that.....Some people are saying Bear was part of a Bully Group picking on Heavy, other people say he was a coward and was put in his place by Heavy...be nice if all the Heavy fans could at least unite with one story and stick to it...and even better if they could focus on the real version which was Bear wasn't part of it, neither was he trying to be or hiding from it....I think he was just enjoying having a ring side seat for once with the others

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by hot2go

I actually don't feel sorry for Heavy but I also don't like Marnie and Lewis....Heavy taunts people himself and what he got last night was no worse than what he gave out to Chloe, sorry no sympathy from me.....but Bear didn't get involved last night until the point where he tried to stop Lewis making an even bigger mistake ...Bear didn't take the drinks or laugh about doing so...he was in the garden when Lewis and Marnie did that.....Some people are saying Bear was part of a Bully Group picking on Heavy, other people say he was a coward and was put in his place by Heavy...be nice if all the Heavy fans could at least unite with one story and stick to it...and even better if they could focus on the real version which was Bear wasn't part of it, neither was he trying to be or hiding from it....I think he was just enjoying having a ring side seat for once with the others

He had no part in it. Bear actually tried to stop Heavy D and Lewis from coming to blows.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by hot2go

No hypocricy about it...Im going on what takes place in the house....it's what I always do....people's real life relationships are their business and complicated....I know nothing of the circumstances.
As for Chloe, he was a pawn in her game as much as she was in his....she was the one laughing loudest and had as big a reason to wind up Heavy as he did. You all patronise her, that attitude to women again, like she's some victim and too dumb to make her own decisions....she's not educated but she's def not dumb and if she didn't want to be around Bear she would make it very clear...like she did with Heavy, and that brings us back to the start again ...Heavy doesn't respect women

I had started to respond to this, but changed my mind, as I didn't think there was any point, so deleted it. The main reason for that was the way you too often choose to judge and deride people, either for having a different view to you, or in this case, even before I've expressed my view.

In this case I am referring to this part of your message: - 'You all patronise her, that attitude to women again, like she's some victim and too dumb to make her own decisions'.

The whole tone of this comment is patronising, judgmental, insulting and belittling, as nowhere on here have I ever 'patronised' her, or shown 'that attitude towards women', or suggested she is 'too dumb to make her own decisions'. You have chosen to make this statement as if it is a fact, even before knowing my view on Chloe and even before giving me a chance to express one, and I actually find your accusation and tone really belittling and offensive.

Please do not ever accuse me of something I haven't done, and if you truly want to have a discussion, rather than just trying to impose your views on others and belittling them if their view differs from yours, I feel you need to stop and consider what you say in future and about how you are expressing yourself, especially as this is not the first time that you have done this, and I notice how many other forum members have also expressed the same feeling. I notice, too, how a group of you band together to back up each other in treating people in this way. I didn't join this forum to be subject to this, and I am not prepared to tolerate it. Hence, I will no longer respond to any other of your posts in which this happens.

I will, however, respond to your points on this occasion, firstly because you have asked me for my views on this in another post and, secondly, because I would like the opportunity to defend myself from the accusations you have thrown at me. They are as follows:-

1) I had never heard of Bear before watching BB, so know nothing about him outside of the house other than what he, himself has discussed during his time in BB. I even missed launch night, so had no information about him at all. Therefore, I too am only judging him from what I have seen on BB.

If he chooses to discuss something whilst in BB, and he has discussed having a girlfriend and being in a relationship a number of times, then it is acceptable to judge him on that. In fact, he discussed her again last night, and chose to dump her on live television, rather than having the decency to wait until he got out.

You had made statements about how you dislike men who treat women badly, and had been appalled at Heavy D's treatment of Chloe. I simply found that strange when I know you support Bear, who had revealed he had a girlfriend, but still chose to cheat on her, and who also chose to use Chloe to wind-up someone else. On top of that he also chose to disrespect the fact that she has a boyfriend, which again she has been open about in the house.

I agree with you too that she was using him also, and that she was also disrespecting her boyfriend. However, that still doesn't change the fact that he was using her. I actually feel the whole 'dare' game in which he persuaded her to kiss him several times, when she was clearly reluctant to do so at first, was a subtle way of manipulating her to get involved in that situation. He was the instigator. In my opinion, a man who has respect for women wouldn't have chosen to play that game with her or chosen to kiss her in the first place.

Although, contrary to what you assumed, I actually agree with you that Heavy D's treatment of Chloe was bad and that he went too far in that task, but in my opinion Bear's treatment of women is much worse. Heavy D didn't truly show respect for Chloe in that situation, but I don't think we have seen enough to state he doesn't respect women in general, as I have not seen him treat the other women badly. Additionally, Chloe also said herself the other night that she has no problem with Heavy D and it was no big deal. In my opinion, cheating on women and using them (and now dumping his girlfriend on tv) is much more disrespectful.

By making the statement that clearly suggests you oppose any disrespect of women - 'that attitude towards women again', etc- you appear to be presenting yourself as a defender of women. That is where I see the hypocrisy: in you excusing Bear, and in being selective in your use of information (which he himself has revealed in the house) that is not suggesting true respect for women.

2) My opinions of Chloe- I actually don't think she is dumb, but I do feel that her decision to let men treat her in the way we have seen, the fact that she has done so much to change her appearance, and the fact that she chooses to present herself and to behave in such a sexualised was, suggest a lack of self-worth and self-respect; you wouldn't change your appearance if you felt you were good enough as you were, and the sexualisation of herself suggests that she feels that is the only way she feels she can be appealing to men and succeed in the world. I therefore think she is vulnerable to allowing herself to be used and taken advantage of- for which you will no doubt accuse me of being patronising, even though it is not meant that way.

Do I fully respect her or approve of her behaviour? No - she is choosingto behave as she does and thereby leave her herself open to being judged badly by others, so it is her decision and she therefore has to accept the consequences, which I do in fact believe she has the ability to see. Therefore, I do not feel she is 'dumb' (not a word I would choose to use) or that she is unable to make her own decisions (both part of your accusations towards me). I do, however, think her decisions are questionable and suggest she doesn't respect herself, and that she is, in fact, as bad as Bear for behaving in that way, even though I think the reasons for her behaviour are different.

Now that I have done what you have requested and responded to your points, with the explanations you always seem to demand, I am ending this discussion, as I am not going to jump through hoops by being expected to explain myself and defend myself repeatedly- that's just going round in circles and is pointless when I already know you will tell me I am wrong anyhow.

[jet]

Originally Posted by hot2go

The biggest difference between these two is about twenty years ....Heavy D is a prized pillock ....it's like watching a care in the community documentary.

Disgusting post.

[empire]

the thing with chloe is that, she is one of those females who unfortunately live's in a bubble, and nearly her whole life men have told her what she wanted to hear, the real thing that upset her was that heavy D rejected her first, even though she does not fancy him, in her mind no man should reject me, you get alot of girls who are like that, with lewis he incite's bear to do pranks and just take's it too far, lewis was the one that made bear wind up heavy d with that truth or dare kiss, he told bear to make sure heavy d saw it, and he told him do start kissing in the bedroom, its like trying to corner a lion, and you know what happens their, what if heavy d does not want to marry or have a girlfriend, lewis must be really that dumb or his ego is really to big, just because you pulled a girl in the house dose not make you any better, I think heavy d reminds him of his early life, where he might of been overweight or a geek, you can see lewis trying to hide his insecurities when he tries to berate heavy d, he takes a huge pleasure in it, I bet heavy D has more friends than what he has in his entire life.

[starry]

It's the standard Big Brother forum tactic, if people are against each other just lump them together as being 'as bad as each other'. Seen it for years.

Lewis is a bore, just there for his showmance. He acts like he's king of the house. Him and Bear acted like Heavy was his plaything and now he's made it clear he isn't it kicks off.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by starry;8901167 [B

It's the standard Big Brother forum tactic, if people are against each other just lump them together as being 'as bad as each other'. Seen it for years[/B]

Lewis is a bore, just there for his showmance. He acts like he's king of the house. Him and Bear acted like Heavy was his plaything and now he's made it clear he isn't it kicks off.

Hiya Starry. I love having the opportunity to discuss and debate the show and the housemates, but the attitude of certain groups of forum members, sometimes makes it feel less like a discussion and more like an interrogation or a brainwashing session. It's tiresome and tiring, and not at all what I expected when I joined.

There are some brilliant posts and forum members on here but finding their interesting and well-reasoned points can feel like a case of Where's Wally? at times! It is only them that are keeping me on the forum at the moment, as I've seriously considered opting out.