[arista]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It is about respecting the rights of the people who live there. Don't they have the same rights as the Scots in your opinion?

Very Valid Point jaxie

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It is about respecting the rights of the people who live there. Don't they have the same rights as the Scots in your opinion?

Thing is, whether this is true or not, it doesn't invalidate the comparison to Hong Kong. IIRC most of the people there didn't want to go back to Chinese rule but it was effectively... Tough poop.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Thing is, whether this is true or not, it doesn't invalidate the comparison to Hong Kong. IIRC most of the people there didn't want to go back to Chinese rule but it was effectively... Tough poop.

It is an entirely different matter since Hong Kong was only leased to the UK until 1997.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It is about respecting the rights of the people who live there. Don't they have the same rights as the Scots in your opinion?

They are in a very similar position in fairness, they voted to remain safe in the knowledge they were part of the EU. That is also of great importance to them, they must be feeling very conflicted.
Of course that has nothing to do with the conditions attached to the agreements signed with Spain concerning the retention of overseas territories, that may be a more complex issue.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They are in a very similar position in fairness, they voted to remain safe in the knowledge they were part of the EU. That is also of great importance to them, they must be feeling very conflicted.
Of course that has nothing to do with the conditions attached to the agreements signed with Spain concerning the retention of overseas territories, that may be a more complex issue.

The issue is fairly simple. Spain gave the UK Gibraltar as part of a treat 300 years ago. The British settled Gibraltar and the descendants of those settlers run their own territory as a UK protectorate. They are self governing but under umbrella of our protection. They were asked if they wanted to go with Spain or have a shared sovreignity and chose by 99% vote to be British. Spain has no rights to them or their rock.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's a pathetic attempt to hang on tooth and claw to our colonialist past, we didn't have this hoo ha over Hong Kong...because we wouldn't effing DARE!

You want out of the EU fine! Give Spain it's bloody rock back an foff!

It's only in the main the territory politicians want to hold onto or get.

The views of those living there don't really matter so much very sadly.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It's only in the main the territory politicians want to hold onto or get.

The views of those living there don't really matter so much very sadly.

If the views of the people didn't matter why were Gibraltar able to choose in 2002?
If you are referring to Hong Kong it was leased to us and the lease ran out.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

If the views of the people didn't matter why were Gibraltar able to choose in 2002?
If you are referring to Hong Kong it was leased to us and the lease ran out.

That sounds horrible, to lease out a persons homeland to another country. Gross.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That sounds horrible, to lease out a persons homeland to another country. Gross.

Attitudes in the past when these kind of agreements and treaties were made were very different. I think the UK did own part of the island but 90% of the land of Hong Kong was part of the lease which was also tied up in an international treaty so there wasn't much choice but to leave Hong Kong.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

That sounds horrible, to lease out a persons homeland to another country. Gross.

Even worse at the end of said period,when the vast majority in Hong Kong wanted things to stay as they had been for all that time, for no attempt to do anything on their behalf.

As for Gibraltar,as long as those living there support being part of the UK.
That's fine but their overwhelming view on the EU,and they are far closer to mainland Europe,that doesn't matter a jot to The UK govt or some voters of The UK either.

Selective support and consideration comes to mind.

[MTVN]

At the time I think the 99 year lease was symbolic really and a way of allowing China's rulers to save face, back then it wasn't thought that Hong Kong would actually return to China after that time but obviously the UK and China were very different countries in the 1980s than they were in 1890s

Not sure why its considered colonial of the UK to defend Gibraltar's British status given the strength of feeling there that they want to remain British. There is next to zero will in Gibraltar to return to Spanish rule despite the Brexit vote and surely Spain is the one with colonial pretensions in trying to claim the land

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

At the time I think the 99 year lease was symbolic really and a way of allowing China's rulers to save face, back then it wasn't thought that Hong Kong would actually return to China after that time but obviously the UK and China were very different countries in the 1980s than they were in 1890s

Not sure why its considered colonial of the UK to defend Gibraltar's British status given the strength of feeling there that they want to remain British. There is next to zero will in Gibraltar to return to Spanish rule despite the Brexit vote and surely Spain is the one with colonial pretensions in trying to claim the land

Since when did we give two hoots about the 'strength of feeling' here or anywhere in the world?

Our PM can't get her head around our constitutional obligations so some treaty will be of no interest whatsoever.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's a pathetic attempt to hang on tooth and claw to our colonialist past, we didn't have this hoo ha over Hong Kong...because we wouldn't effing DARE!

You want out of the EU fine! Give Spain it's bloody rock back an foff!

Holg Kong was effing leased. it was common knowledge...

If the people of Gibralter want to remain Britigh, it's not your call to say they can't.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Holg Kong was effing leased. it was common knowledge...

If the people of Gibralter want to remain Britigh, it's not your call to say they can't.

Ok calm down, I didn't say it was my call... I'm having my say in the debate is all.

[Wizard.]

We will go to war for Gibraltar. No-one will take our beloved rock!

[Greg!]

I love how less than a week since article 50 being triggered, there is open conversations from politicians about going to war The UK is a JOKE

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Greg!

I love how less than a week since article 50 being triggered, there is open conversations from politicians about going to war The UK is a JOKE

Well one politician mentioned that it's around the anniversary of 35 years for the falklands war and that this female prime minister he was sure would defend Gibraltar as strongly as another had the Falklands. Of course typically the remark is taken out of context for sensationalism.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Well one politician mentioned that it's around the anniversary of 35 years for the falklands war and that this female prime minister he was sure would defend Gibraltar as strongly as another had the Falklands. Of course typically the remark is taken out of context for sensationalism.

'In once secret files, now tucked away in the National Archives at Kew, The Independent has discovered the outlines of a cunning plan, drawn up by a succession of far-sighted civil servants and senior military officers, for a very hard, hard Brexit. It involves the option of blowing up the Channel Tunnel with a nuclear bomb, and not telling the French what we are up to.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/lo...-a7662711.html

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'In once secret files, now tucked away in the National Archives at Kew, The Independent has discovered the outlines of a cunning plan, drawn up by a succession of far-sighted civil servants and senior military officers, for a very hard, hard Brexit. It involves the option of blowing up the Channel Tunnel with a nuclear bomb, and not telling the French what we are up to.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/lo...-a7662711.html

Says a lot about the newspaper you like quote really.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Says a lot about the newspaper you like quote really.

Does it... What exactly does it say, that you can't trust the British?
Because clearly you can't.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'In once secret files, now tucked away in the National Archives at Kew, The Independent has discovered the outlines of a cunning plan, drawn up by a succession of far-sighted civil servants and senior military officers, for a very hard, hard Brexit. It involves the option of blowing up the Channel Tunnel with a nuclear bomb, and not telling the French what we are up to.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/lo...-a7662711.html

[Northern Monkey]

On the Marr show someone was saying Spain are playing with fire if they want to play games with us because we can start too by helping Catalonia get independence.

If it came to war Spain would come off worst.We'd kick their ass.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

On the Marr show someone was saying Spain are playing with fire if they want to play games with us because we can start too by helping Catalonia get independence.

If it came to war Spain would come off worst.We'd kick their ass.

Yeah a world war over a rock...wouldn't surprise me, thatcher took us to war for a field.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yeah a world war over a rock...wouldn't surprise me, thatcher took us to war for a field.

Good job you're not in charge then.You'd be giving away territory left right and centre.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Good job you're not in charge then.You'd be giving away territory left right and centre.

Well I wouldn't be sending other peoples kids to foreign lands to be killed for nothing if that's what you mean.