[Niamh.]

Old fashioned views like not wanting to give your 5 year old puberty halting drugs? I'm happy to be old fashioned then

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Old fashioned views like not wanting to give your 5 year old puberty halting drugs? I'm happy to be old fashioned then

There are a lot of 'if's', but yes. I don't think this will be a discussion in a generations time. We're moving past this stage.

I think the idea of a little boy knowing he is a girl, but being forced to turn into a man through puberty will be something the next generation will look on to with confusion, especially now that a drug has been made to temporarily stop puberty from turning said child into a man, but not even necessarily going the other way towards what the child wants.

Its illogical really if you think about it, and is something I'd match with a time well before modern science, medicine and technology.

[Niamh.]

I hope you're wrong and instead people are given proper counselling to help them accept who they are, not given the emperor's new clothes treatment

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hope you're wrong and instead people are given proper counselling to help them accept who they are, not given the emperor's new clothes treatment

You know you've heard it all when people think it's ok to give children of 5 and up drugs rather than therapy for gender confusion.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You know you've heard it all when people think it's ok to give children of 5 and up drugs rather than therapy for gender confusion.

I know or that it's an old fashioned notion not to think it's a normal way to handle the situation

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You know you've heard it all when people think it's ok to give children of 5 and up drugs rather than therapy for gender confusion.

Well I cant imagine the drug would be beneficial for 5 year olds... that wasnt my point. My point was if a 5 year old knows their gender, but was being forced through a different puberty cycle several years later, even though a perfectly suitable drug exists, the parent has ruined that kids life.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hope you're wrong and instead people are given proper counselling to help them accept who they are, not given the emperor's new clothes treatment

Is a pair of jeans, a blue bedroom, and all the counselling in the world really going to help a girl who's gowing an adams apple and a deep voice. She would still be a 50 year old woman who was forced into the boy-man puberty cycle because she was denied the drug to slow that down, even though she knew she wanted this as a child. She will still look down on herself with resentment, and that would be her parents fault more than anything, they have the choice now more than ever.

Imagine what Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney could look like if they had the male puberty cycle slowed down or stopped.. Forcing kids into a gender just seems so outdated to me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Is a pair of jeans, a blue bedroom, and all the counselling in the world really going to help a girl who's gowing an adams apple and a deep voice. She would still be a 50 year old woman who was forced into the boy-man puberty cycle because she was denied the drug to slow that down, even though she knew she wanted this as a child. She will still look down on herself with resentment, and that would be her parents fault more than anything, they have the choice now more than ever.

Imagine what Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney could look like if they had the male puberty cycle slowed down or stopped.. Forcing kids into a gender just seems so outdated to me.

A blue bedroom and a pair of jeans? So your idea of what gender is, is all the stereotypes? That's pretty outdated thinking to me

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

A blue bedroom and a pair of jeans? So your idea of what gender is, is all the stereotypes? That's pretty outdated thinking to me

Ugh no, that wasnt my point either. I was suggesting that these things would not be helpful. That is not what a boy is. Its deeper than that, and counselling isnt going to stop your hormones changing you into something you know you're not.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Is a pair of jeans, a blue bedroom, and all the counselling in the world really going to help a girl who's gowing an adams apple and a deep voice. She would still be a 50 year old woman who was forced into the boy-man puberty cycle because she was denied the drug to slow that down, even though she knew she wanted this as a child. She will still look down on herself with resentment, and that would be her parents fault more than anything, they have the choice now more than ever.

Imagine what Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney could look like if they had the male puberty cycle slowed down or stopped.. Forcing kids into a gender just seems so outdated to me.

Why do Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney's appearances have any bearing on this discussion at all?

Is gender reassignment a beauty contest now? People come in all shapes and sizes, some have physical beauty some don't. What are you saying here?

Are you also saying that parent are to blame if they don't give in to everything a child demands? What if someone's child doesn't like the look of ears and wants them removed at 7?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Why do Lauren Harries or Kellie Maloney's appearances have any bearing on this discussion at all?

Is gender reassignment a beauty contest now? People come in all shapes and sizes, some have physical beauty some don't. What are you saying here?

I'm saying, and I've heard Lauren Harries say this too in some documentary I watched about 10/15 years ago, that some aspects of puberty is irreversible. Lauren may be legally, and technically a woman, but when she still went through the male puberty cycle, she still became something she was not, she can't get rid of her adams apple etc. Girls growing up in boys bodies now have the chance to stop processes like this, forcing them into it simply because they are a child and might be confused is gross.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

I'm saying, and I've heard Lauren Harries say this too in some documentary I watched about 10/15 years ago, that some aspects of puberty is irreversible. Lauren may be legally, and technically a woman, but when she still went through the male puberty cycle, she still became something she was not, she can't get rid of her adams apple etc. Girls growing up in boys bodies now have the chance to stop processes like this, forcing them into it simply because they are a child and might be confused is gross.

She also can't grow a womb and ovaries. Whether she has medication, surgery or not.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Are you also saying that parent are to blame if they don't give in to everything a child demands? What if someone's child doesn't like the look of ears and wants them removed at 7?

They are not an earless person in a person-with-ears body. Why do you keep making ****e comparisons, do you even understand the topic?! This is the same as your princess metaphor.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

They are not an earless person in a person-with-ears body. Why do you keep making ****e comparisons, do you even understand the topic?! This is the same as your princess metaphor.

Its not really a crap metaphor though, but for sake of the conversation, I will bite here. What is the difference between someone who is transgender and transabled? Or in the case of that Rachel Dolezqal person, trans-racial? Really?

Transabled people are distressed by what they consider to be limbs that do not belong to them, they are disabled people trapped in able bodies. They have surgeries (if they can find doctors willing to do them) to correct this. In what way is this different to considering yourself a different sex than you are and having surgeries to 'fix' this?

My view on pretty much the whole topic is that adults should do whatever they feel will help them in their daily lives tbh (though studies show that 'transition' is not a cure as some think, as mental health a few years after the original honeymoon period actually goes downhill) but kids should be left well alone. We shouldn't be using kids in experimental treatments. There are enough 'detransitioners' to question this 'surgery or die' rhetoric that we are fed. Also the likes of mermaids should be ****ing ashamed for peddling this '50% of transkids kill themselves' nonsense. Scaring parents into medicating their children for life. When in MOST cases, the kid if just left to go through puberty would be perfectly happy as an adult, and in most cases simply gay. Yes, a handful of these kids will turn out to actually be transsexual when they are older, but I don't get why its seen as a good thing to treat ALL questioning kids with these powerful and dangerous drugs, on the offchance that they are one of the 20% (or less) who continue to question as adults.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I hope you're wrong and instead people are given proper counselling to help them accept who they are, not given the emperor's new clothes treatment

post of the thread, look at all the kids who were given the wonder drug Ritalin to control their behaviour instead exploring other ways of dealing with ADHD and other behavioural issues

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

post of the thread, look at all the kids who were given the wonder drug Ritalin to control their behaviour instead exploring other ways of dealing with ADHD and other behavioural issues

Yeah, I never had a child with ADHD but I'm sure it can't be healthy to be drugging a child up like that. I've read changing diets and things like that can help alot with kids with ADHD but that's alot more effort than giving them a pill

[thesheriff443]

Had a conversation with my elderly neibour, she is struggling to accept that one of her grand sons who is 10 I think is living as a girl dresses as a girl goes to school and is accepted as a girl, both parents are doctors, one a paediatrician and the other a psychiatrist.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Had a conversation with my elderly neibour, she is struggling to accept that one of her grand sons who is 10 I think is living as a girl dresses as a girl goes to school and is accepted as a girl, both parents are doctors, one a paediatrician and the other a psychiatrist.

Granny might be the wisest member of the family.

[Vicky.]

Wrong wrong wrong. Even sop called 'harmless' puberty blockers...which are actually chemotherapy drugs.

One day we will look back on this as a child abuse scandal of massive proportions. At the moment though, too many are willing to bury their heads in the sand about it all. So many kids will be harmed by this. Even now there are a fair few kids who want to reverse the damage done to them. Its just ****ing wring and I don't understand how anyone can ever agree with it. Some idiot parents are asking for referrals for their 3 year olds to 'gender clinics' ffs. And transactivists are fighting for 'less gatekeeping'?! Really?!

Like 80% of kids with gender confusion effectively grow out of it, and when they are older most of these simply are gay adults. 'Transing kids' is nothing more than modern day eugenics. How there seems to be widespread support for this I don't know. Let them wear what they like, play with what they like and so on. Using chemo drugs to delay puberty is just bat****. Also, 'reversible' is only technically...as 100% of kids put on blockers move onto cross sex hormones, probably as halting puberty also halts brain development so they get stuck in the same mindset.

I agree with niamh. Its child abuse. On a huge scale. I don't doubt the parents are trying to do whats best for the kids (especially after having distorted suicide stats thrown at them by the likes of 'mermaids' who are meant to HELP families like this) but its all just so ****ing wrong.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Wrong wrong wrong. Even sop called 'harmless' puberty blockers...which are actually chemotherapy drugs.

One day we will look back on this as a child abuse scandal of massive proportions. At the moment though, too many are willing to bury their heads in the sand about it all. So many kids will be harmed by this. Even now there are a fair few kids who want to reverse the damage done to them. Its just ****ing wring and I don't understand how anyone can ever agree with it. Some idiot parents are asking for referrals for their 3 year olds to 'gender clinics' ffs. And transactivists are fighting for 'less gatekeeping'?! Really?!

Like 80% of kids with gender confusion effectively grow out of it, and when they are older most of these simply are gay adults. 'Transing kids' is nothing more than modern day eugenics. How there seems to be widespread support for this I don't know. Let them wear what they like, play with what they like and so on. Using chemo drugs to delay puberty is just bat****. Also, 'reversible' is only technically...as 100% of kids put on blockers move onto cross sex hormones, probably as halting puberty also halts brain development so they get stuck in the same mindset.

I agree with niamh. Its child abuse. On a huge scale. I don't doubt the parents are trying to do whats best for the kids (especially after having distorted suicide stats thrown at them by the likes of 'mermaids' who are meant to HELP families like this) but its all just so ****ing wrong.

There aren’t enough ‘s for this

[Vicky.]

I also think come 10-20years time, we will look back on this 'treatment regime' the same way we look back at lobotomies. But the damage will have already been done by then. The side effects of Lupron are horrendous, even when taken short term.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I also think come 10-20years time, we will look back on this 'treatment regime' the same way we look back at lobotomies. But the damage will have already been done by then. The side effects of Lupron are horrendous, even when taken short term.

I agree 100% but apparently only my views and comments are under question so I'm off for a bit!

To clarify: Physical aspects of starting out as one sex were being promoted as a reason to give drugs to children. I was pointing out these aren't the only physical issues that can't be changed.

[Marsh.]

Absolutely sick and disgusting.

[Vicky.]

As for genders, gender is a social construct. I have no gender, so technically am 'a-gender' or 'gender-queer'. I only discovered this when looking into this fairly recently. I believe 'gender' is just personality, hence there being 2361278456238954234 of them. Sex and gender are not the same.

[Oliver_W]

As others have said, young kids who think they're trans most often grow of it by the time they hit puberty. While the blockers themselves don't cause sterilisation, they lead to transition hormones, which mean the child will never have been fertile in the first place.

Take Jazz Jennings. She's an MtF who transitioned young. Thanks to blockers and hormones, her penis never developed, and it can't be used in a sex "change" operation, because there's not enough material there.