[Babayaro.]

Didn't Kellie just recently make the transition before going into the house? I'm sure she got a hero's welcome on launch night

[Jamie89]

I was just thinking that! I wasn't on here for Kellie's series and was curious if this amount of focus on the trans issue was normal

I would say with Luke A though that there is generally more of an objection to trans women in society than trans men.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I was just thinking that! I wasn't on here for Kellie's series and was curious if this amount of focus on the trans issue was normal

I would say with Luke A though that there is generally more of an objection to trans women in society than trans men.

It seems to be more common for male to female though (or am I way off base about that?) Certainly male to female transgenders are more vocal and seem to be making most demands about prisons, sport, shared changing areas etc. and being realistic men are more of a danger to women in general, women (in general) aren't much of a physical threat to men. I've been learning alot about all this recently through our chats and through Vicky and it seems like maybe the reason people are starting to worry more (mainly women i guess) is because of this whole thing now of a man just deciding he's a woman and that's that, it's not really transsexual like India is though, it's all still very confusing to me tbqh

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It seems to be more common for male to female though (or am I way off base about that?) Certainly male to female transgenders are more vocal and seem to be making most demands about prisons, sport, shared changing areas etc. and being realistic men are more of a danger to women in general, women (in general) aren't much of a physical threat to men. I've been learning alot about all this recently through our chats and through Vicky and it seems like maybe the reason people are starting to worry more (mainly women i guess) is because of this whole thing now of a man just deciding he's a woman and that's that, it's not really transsexual like India is though, it's all still very confusing to me tbqh

They are technically more common I believe (although there's so much around this, diagnosis is a big factor, or misdiagnosis, it really is a big issue in itself) and yes we hear more about them for those reasons you gave. But when it's one specific trans person being discussed I don't really see why those things should matter, it should just be the person and their views that are discussed, otherwise it can come over as prejudice. If we're just taking 2 people, Luke A, and India Willoughby, and comparing the attitudes towards them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

They are technically more common I believe (although there's so much around this, diagnosis is a big factor, or misdiagnosis, it really is a big issue in itself) and yes we hear more about them for those reasons you gave. But when it's one specific trans person being discussed I don't really see why those things should matter, it should just be the person and their views that are discussed, otherwise it can come over as prejudice. If we're just taking 2 people, Luke A, and India Willoughby, and comparing the attitudes towards them.

I was just guessing really why maybe people are more "against" this now (if that's the right word), because these issues have come about in recent times and weren't a concern for people a few years back? I don't know I'm just speculating really

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by jamie89

i was just thinking that! I wasn't on here for kellie's series and was curious if this amount of focus on the trans issue was normal

I would say with luke a though that there is generally more of an objection to trans women in society than trans men.

AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED BB13?!

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by y.winter

AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED BB13?!

I was speaking generally about trans men!! (and I have seen half... ish I'm continuing it soon leave me alone horribleperson.gif)

[Livia]

I can't remember... did Luke A ever insist that he was a "real man"?

[waterhog]

the nasty comments are dwaft by the positive comments because there is more good in this life then bad.

but the bad comments will always be number 1 and front page because this nation loves a poem - I mean story

[reece(:]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...d.php?t=263052

[Babayaro.]

Are we all in agreement that Kellie was a complete twat though?

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Are we all in agreement that Kellie was a complete twat though?

Yes but she was brilliant telly

[Babayaro.]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Yes but she was brilliant telly

Squaring up to Leslie

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Are we all in agreement that Kellie was a complete twat though?

Originally Posted by Firewire

Yes but she was brilliant telly

.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Are we all in agreement that Kellie was a complete twat though?

yep, arsehole

[Epic.]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

Are we all in agreement that Kellie was a complete twat though?

Sort of, but she was going through hormones that happen following a sex change. She was a fantastic housemate and up there with Gary, Frenchy, and Leslie as a highlight of her series

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not sure why predominately gay members who are immersed in such topics think that your average jo public bloke will think the same as them when they come across a woman like India

its very intolerant of you tbh

You can be dismayed that society is not as accepting as you are but to be angry and start name calling is to not understand the world you live in

incremental acceptance my friends is the way it happens

Boy George got all this abuse after Karma Chameleon

Now he is a national treasure

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Not sure why predominately gay members who are immersed in such topics think that your average jo public bloke will think the same as them when they come across a woman like India

its very intolerant of you tbh

You can be dismayed that society is not as accepting as you are but to be angry and start name calling is to not understand the world you live in

incremental acceptance my friends is the way it happens

Boy George got all this abuse after Karma Chameleon

Now he is a national treasure

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Not sure why predominately gay members who are immersed in such topics think that your average jo public bloke will think the same as them when they come across a woman like India

its very intolerant of you tbh

You can be dismayed that society is not as accepting as you are but to be angry and start name calling is to not understand the world you live in

incremental acceptance my friends is the way it happens

Boy George got all this abuse after Karma Chameleon

Now he is a national treasure

I'll tell you exactly why - because gay people know what discrimination feels like. You as a straight, white male do not actually know what it feels like to have to deal with people criticising you because you feel a different way to the "norm." You haven't experienced the hurling of abuse or the caustic comments, the rolling of the eyes, or had to simply accept the fact that discussions like this are even needed to feel like you have a place in society that is just as equal as anything else. Gay people know what that feels like, and we know exactly how much further there is to go. And trans people have even further and so many mountains yet to climb. You may feel like we are shouting louder than needed and being oversensitive and you know what? Maybe there are LGBT people out there who should reign it in, because otherwise it makes them no better. But on the other hand, and sorry to use a rather extreme example, but straight white males or females aren't illegal in some countries. There are countries in the world that way over half of this forum cannot go to and completely be ourselves because we would be at genuine risk of being arrested, or murdered or both.
Trans people go through exactly the same as us, and then some. It's ten times worse for them because they need to actually alter their body in extremely painful and emotionally scarring ways in order to feel happy in ways that a lot of us completely take for granted. On top of that, they are subject to ignorant comments by people who genuinely have absolutely zero idea what they're talking about. You aren't made to feel like a freak, or a creature, or a skidmark on society for being who you are on a day to day basis. LGBT people are. And that's why you're going to find people fighting tooth and claw to stand up for people who have to explain themselves every single day.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

I'll tell you exactly why - because gay people know what discrimination feels like. You as a straight, white male do not actually know what it feels like to have to deal with people criticising you because you feel a different way to the "norm." You haven't experienced the hurling of abuse or the caustic comments, the rolling of the eyes, or had to simply accept the fact that discussions like this are even needed to feel like you have a place in society that is just as equal as anything else. Gay people know what that feels like, and we know exactly how much further there is to go. And trans people have even further and so many mountains yet to climb. You may feel like we are shouting louder than needed and being oversensitive and you know what? Maybe there are LGBT people out there who should reign it in, because otherwise it makes them no better. But on the other hand, and sorry to use a rather extreme example, but straight white males or females aren't illegal in some countries. There are countries in the world that way over half of this forum cannot go to and completely be ourselves because we would be at genuine risk of being arrested, or murdered or both.
Trans people go through exactly the same as us, and then some. It's ten times worse for them because they need to actually alter their body in extremely painful and emotionally scarring ways in order to feel happy in ways that a lot of us completely take for granted. On top of that, they are subject to ignorant comments by people who genuinely have absolutely zero idea what they're talking about. You aren't made to feel like a freak, or a creature, or a skidmark on society for being who you are on a day to day basis. LGBT people are. And that's why you're going to find people fighting tooth and claw to stand up for people who have to explain themselves every single day.

[MTVN]

Kellie had it worse from what I remember. She faced a lot of people who both refused to see her as a woman but also questioned her motivations and thought it was a stunt etc. especially by going into the house so soon after announcing her transition. India hasn't had the latter at least

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Kellie had it worse from what I remember. She faced a lot of people who both refused to see her as a woman but also questioned her motivations and thought it was a stunt etc. especially by going into the house so soon after announcing her transition. India hasn't had the latter at least

I think it’s as a few people have said though - he also had a lot of backlash from the LGBT community as well. Almost like “Oh, so NOW you want our support?”

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by Rob!

I'll tell you exactly why - because gay people know what discrimination feels like. You as a straight, white male do not actually know what it feels like to have to deal with people criticising you because you feel a different way to the "norm." You haven't experienced the hurling of abuse or the caustic comments, the rolling of the eyes, or had to simply accept the fact that discussions like this are even needed to feel like you have a place in society that is just as equal as anything else. Gay people know what that feels like, and we know exactly how much further there is to go. And trans people have even further and so many mountains yet to climb. You may feel like we are shouting louder than needed and being oversensitive and you know what? Maybe there are LGBT people out there who should reign it in, because otherwise it makes them no better. But on the other hand, and sorry to use a rather extreme example, but straight white males or females aren't illegal in some countries. There are countries in the world that way over half of this forum cannot go to and completely be ourselves because we would be at genuine risk of being arrested, or murdered or both.
Trans people go through exactly the same as us, and then some. It's ten times worse for them because they need to actually alter their body in extremely painful and emotionally scarring ways in order to feel happy in ways that a lot of us completely take for granted. On top of that, they are subject to ignorant comments by people who genuinely have absolutely zero idea what they're talking about. You aren't made to feel like a freak, or a creature, or a skidmark on society for being who you are on a day to day basis. LGBT people are. And that's why you're going to find people fighting tooth and claw to stand up for people who have to explain themselves every single day.

you summed it up perfectly!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Rob!

I'll tell you exactly why - because gay people know what discrimination feels like. You as a straight, white male do not actually know what it feels like to have to deal with people criticising you because you feel a different way to the "norm." You haven't experienced the hurling of abuse or the caustic comments, the rolling of the eyes, or had to simply accept the fact that discussions like this are even needed to feel like you have a place in society that is just as equal as anything else. Gay people know what that feels like, and we know exactly how much further there is to go. And trans people have even further and so many mountains yet to climb. You may feel like we are shouting louder than needed and being oversensitive and you know what? Maybe there are LGBT people out there who should reign it in, because otherwise it makes them no better. But on the other hand, and sorry to use a rather extreme example, but straight white males or females aren't illegal in some countries. There are countries in the world that way over half of this forum cannot go to and completely be ourselves because we would be at genuine risk of being arrested, or murdered or both.
Trans people go through exactly the same as us, and then some. It's ten times worse for them because they need to actually alter their body in extremely painful and emotionally scarring ways in order to feel happy in ways that a lot of us completely take for granted. On top of that, they are subject to ignorant comments by people who genuinely have absolutely zero idea what they're talking about. You aren't made to feel like a freak, or a creature, or a skidmark on society for being who you are on a day to day basis. LGBT people are. And that's why you're going to find people fighting tooth and claw to stand up for people who have to explain themselves every single day.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that people dont face challenges in life outwith their sexuality for some reason.

and that diatribe contains a lot of absolutes, some of which I have highlighted and i dont think you can speak for others or claim them as truth

You are just trying to justify calling people names because they annoyed you really

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

You seem to be under the misapprehension that people dont face challenges in life outwith their sexuality for some reason.

No, you seem to be under the misapprehension that because your sexuality has never been an issue or caused you to face difficulty/challenges in life that it's the same for other people. It isn't.